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Ace_of_Hearts

Blue Jeans or not

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Well, if OL'Tex wants to out law 'jeans'. Let him join NCOWS. <_<

Tex would feel 'rite' at home in NCOWS, and then the new writer for the CC could help built SASS. Instead of dividing SASS, as Tex's ramblings often do.

 

LG

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Part of the origins of this sport is due to western shows like Bonanza, Gunsmoke and etc. SASS was a way for post WWII babies to play cowboy. That generation is passing away. Younger generations (born after 1970) don't have that fantasy. They come to shoot. If SASS tries to force them into a TV fantasy (that never was the real west) these folks will go elsewhere. They will dress western (hat, jeans & etc) but to try to get them into identify with a TV world they never watched is a wreck.

 

For any organization to survive the passing of time the vision of the founders needs to be flexible and change. The Wild Bunch has a choice of passing on to the next generation a thriving growing organization. Or, they can continue down this road of rules and restrictions and SASS will pass with them.

 

My SASS number when I joined 3 years ago was 96xxx. I saw a new member announced here on the wire whose number is 99xxx. Less than 3000 new members in 3 years. I bet that doesn't even cover the members lost to death and attrition. The Founders Ranch matches have shrunk visibly in the 2 years I have gone. So, instead of actions that drive members away, how about doing something that encourages folks to take up cowboy action shooting.

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Lorimer, you nailed it. At our local match today we had 2 shooters under 20, none in their 20's, maybe two in their 30's, a few more in their 40's, many in their 50's and 60's and quite a few in their 70's. I asked the one young shooter if he ever watched a western and he said no. Out of 43 shooters I saw 8 with Wrangler/Levi type jeans on. I would be willing to bet that should the WB mandate the no jeans rule that that number would increase dramatically as a show of support for those eight shooter wearing jeans. Folks we cannot afford to alienate existing members and potential new members.

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I would like to post "Tex must be off his meds." But I won't.

 

The irony about Tex' seeming obsession with banning Wrangler-style jeans is this: Wranglers are about the only brand of jeans manufactured today with a high waist, just like the typical trousers of the 19th century. Also, Wranglers are the preferred jeans of horsemen and women throughout the US today. And finally, as has been mentioned previously, Wranglers were worn by Chuck Connors on "The Rifleman."

 

Personally, I don't like to wear Wranglers, but I may buy a pair to wear to a match in the near future just to show my disdain for this incredibly.... I can't finish the sentence without risk of having this thread pulled or me getting banned from posting.

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Denim, in the 19th and through at least the first half of the 20th Century, was the fabric of miners, puddlers, and convicts. In the Navy it was "dungarees" and they were for "dirty shirt" work. In 1967 you could not walk in front of the the CO's office building at NOB Norfolk in dugarees.

 

It's a poor fabric for use on leather. It's quite "hard" and can erode leather over time. The seams are particularly hard on fine leather. Most saddlemakers I know do not recomend it and some flat say "no way."

 

From the above draw your own conclusions.

 

SQQ

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Im for Wranglers or Levis jeans also. I dont see anything wrong with not wearing them. Later someone can add chaps and even look more Cowboy if they wish.

 

HS

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So, Al, if I dress as a cowboy, do I need a cow tied to my cart? At least I should have a horse in the remuda, right...

 

I almost want to go out and buy a pair of Wranglers now...

 

 

You should. Wear them in protest like I did.

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Hey, Lorimer. Even The Rifleman wore Wranglers on his show!

 

 

Yep. The Rifleman wore them in almost all the shows. Very few was he not in Wranglers.

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This guy TEX is totally out of touch. What can we do? It seems that anyone can write an asinine editorial that clearly is NOT in the best interests of this sport. The above comments are totally true about those younger who grew up with jeans being part of the main stream, not to beat a dead horse but jeans were around in the late 1800's What is this guys issue ? He needs a horse whipping The editorial was totally lame!!!

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Blue Jeans were invented in 1873 and quickly became the clothing of choice for the working man.

True, but modern jeans are not even close to 1873 period jeans. Hamilton Dry Goods sells (when in stock!) a nice pair of 1873 jeans. Don't really look much like modern jeans.....

Please express to me what is the objection, if any, to cowboy shooters wearing Blue Jeans?

I just don't get understand the objection.

 

Ace

The objection is jeans as part of a shooting outfit unless it is a BW outfit. As far as I know, Tex has no objections to modern jeans as part of a BW outfit - even if you are not shooting that category. OLD WEST and BW are two different animals. Both are embraced in the Shooter's Handbook, but they are separate costuming options.

 

The belief that jeans, a work shirt, boots, and a hat of some kind is a "SASS Minumum" is not in the rules, never was in the rules, but has become generally accepted. Why? Well, it's the advise we give to new folks just getting started, and for good reason, but the expectation has been that when they could, they would step up their costuming - but many have not! I think, in Tex's view, the result has been a degrading of the costuming aspect - the importance of which is clearly emphasized in the Shooter's Handbook.

 

One of the dangers of letting things "slide" is that it's hard to get it back.

 

Regards, GA

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So Grizzly cousin, in your estimation of Tex's opinion is that my attire is not appropriate in any way. As I am wearing jeans, and not fulfilling the other B-Western requirements, I have no boots with fancy stitching, no flashy shirt, no buscadero rig, I am wearing braces and not a belt, and though it's not seen in the picture, no 1894 in my gun cart.

 

zGrizzMine.jpg

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I have been away from CAS for 7 years and some things do not change. Some people just have no common sense when it comes to a cause. Now, Nate may be right - old Tex has run out of stuff to write about and wants to stir up the manure. I am not sure about who runs the WB but they run SASS.

 

But here is reality. It is a business and it is theirs - not yours. So they have every right to pass any rules they want. i doubt they will do anything to hurt the business - but if they do - so what? Here is another news flash. You do not need to follow SASS rules to have a CAS match at the local level. It is such a non-issue.

 

If you can afford to go to a state or regional, a couple of pairs of approved pants is the least of your cost. Why get your undies in a knot? I have not shot a match in 7 years but back then we never had so many shooters at a local match that we would turn someone away. Use the lack of enforcing silly costume rules as a draw..."Cowboys in Blue jeans accepted and welcomed!!"

 

I really like the idea of people wearing jeans just to yank their (or maybe it is just Tex's) chain.

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Well, it all comes down to MONEY. WAH pays the WB a fee for WAH being a sponsor, the blue jeans folks don't and don't care to.

Someone needs to come up with the money to buy Tex out of the Wild Bunch. Then we can have some fresh air in the chronicle.

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Agreed And at both my SASS and WB clubs, the rules are not that enforced. However, MOST everyone (myself included) wears very western stuff and very within the rules clothing. I personally, don't wear jeans, BUT in the spirit of getting new members they need to go easy. I don't like ball caps, sneakers and the likes, period. And the issue that 'ITS THEIR GAME, THEIR RULES, doesnt work for me. Sorry, its the members that make this work. Wheres the democracy ?

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, November 22, 2013 - Personal insult
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, November 22, 2013 - Personal insult

And buy out Col Dan while they are at it. He's tired

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Do we want new shooters on this sport???? If so why would we agree to a rule that makes it even harder and more expensive for newbies to get into the sport???

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...

The belief that jeans, a work shirt, boots, and a hat of some kind is a "SASS Minumum" is not in the rules, never was in the rules, but has become generally accepted.

 

Why? Well, it's the advise we give to new folks just getting started, and for good reason, but the expectation has been that when they could, they would step up their costuming - but many have not! I think, in Tex's view, the result has been a degrading of the costuming aspect - the importance of which is clearly emphasized in the Shooter's Handbook.

 

One of the dangers of letting things "slide" is that it's hard to get it back.

 

Regards, GA

 

Just as an "FYI"...The following is an excerpt from the 4-page section on "CLOTHING and ACCOUTERMENTS" which could be found in the "Shooters Handbook" from 1994 to 2004. (subsequently deleted from the 2006 edition and all versions since then) :

 

...

Don't want to get that involved in developing your costume? Well, okay.

 

Denims of the Wrangler, Levi, and Lee variety are acceptable. Designer jeans (the ones with the colored piping and name embroidered on the pocket are not allowed.

 

Contemporary cowboy shirts with snap fronts are okay, but not even very B-western. Inexpensive cotton work shirts with button fronts are available at Sears, Wal-Mart, K-Mart and J.C. Penny stores. These are much more representative of the type of shirt worn in the late 1800's.

...

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Just as an "FYI"...The following is an excerpt from the 4-page section on "CLOTHING and ACCOUTERMENTS" which could be found in the "Shooters Handbook" from 1994 to 2004. (subsequently deleted from the 2006 edition and all versions since then) :

 

Thanks, PWB. :) I think this advise to new shooters is still useful, and serves to give new folks a starting point. Do you recall the reason for the deletion?

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True, but modern jeans are not even close to 1873 period jeans. Hamilton Dry Goods sells (when in stock!) a nice pair of 1873 jeans. Don't really look much like modern jeans.....

The objection is jeans as part of a shooting outfit unless it is a BW outfit. As far as I know, Tex has no objections to modern jeans as part of a BW outfit - even if you are not shooting that category. OLD WEST and BW are two different animals. Both are embraced in the Shooter's Handbook, but they are separate costuming options.

 

The belief that jeans, a work shirt, boots, and a hat of some kind is a "SASS Minumum" is not in the rules, never was in the rules, but has become generally accepted. Why? Well, it's the advise we give to new folks just getting started, and for good reason, but the expectation has been that when they could, they would step up their costuming - but many have not! I think, in Tex's view, the result has been a degrading of the costuming aspect - the importance of which is clearly emphasized in the Shooter's Handbook.

 

One of the dangers of letting things "slide" is that it's hard to get it back.

 

Regards, GA

 

Thank you for your thoughtful and reasoned answer.

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, November 22, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, November 22, 2013 - No reason given

And buy out Col Dan while they are at it. He's tired

 

I really hope you rethink this comment made in poor taste and likely incomplete thought process.

 

The rest of this post is self deleted (extreme self-control invoked)- I will go have a dram of single malt scotch, instead....Good Day BA.....Standing by for your volunteering to take on the task with an effective plan....

 

Harvey

Thank you Col. Dan for your SELFLESS DEDICATION, EFFORT, and TIME in helping fight for our rights! Many do not realize the time and effort it takes to address this. I do occasionally disagree with your approach, but never by a lot. You have MY support!

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So Grizzly cousin, in your estimation of Tex's opinion is that my attire is not appropriate in any way. As I am wearing jeans, and not fulfilling the other B-Western requirements, I have no boots with fancy stitching, no flashy shirt, no buscadero rig, I am wearing braces and not a belt, and though it's not seen in the picture, no 1894 in my gun cart.

 

Cousin, I personally think you look just fine, and would be honored to have on my posse any day. :)

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Just as an "FYI"...The following is an excerpt from the 4-page section on "CLOTHING and ACCOUTERMENTS" which could be found in the "Shooters Handbook" from 1994 to 2004. (subsequently deleted from the 2006 edition and all versions since then) :

Perhaps we could put together some of the "non rule" musings into a New Shooters Guidebook to help guide new shooter along the right path. And make it a part of their "NEW MEMBER" packet from SASS.

 

What is that they say about people who don't study their history? :)

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, November 22, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, November 22, 2013 - No reason given

And buy out Col Dan while they are at it. He's tired

Do you ever THINK, before you post such asinine remarks/insults? :rolleyes:

What have you done for SASS? Not much from what we can see....... <_<

LG

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We might try to get Wrangler to advertise in the CC but that would likely be impossible. Even if every single shooter in SASS wore Wranglers, it would be an insiginifiant increase to Wranglers world wide sales.

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"Denims of the Wrangler, Levi, and Lee variety are acceptable. Designer jeans (the ones with the colored piping and name embroidered on the pocket are not allowed."

 

"Contemporary cowboy shirts with snap fronts are okay, but not even very B-western. Inexpensive cotton work shirts with button fronts are available at Sears, Wal-Mart, K-Mart and J.C. Penny stores. These are much more representative of the type of shirt worn in the late 1800's."

 

Yep, I remember this and a couple of other things from the little brown rule book that would fit in your shirt pocket. I've still got one some where but can never find it when this topic comes up. :wacko: Good Luck :)

 

Jefro :ph34r: Relax-Enjoy

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Seems pretty ironic that Tex was wearing Wranglers at the Southwest Regionals this weekend.

 

DC

Got any pictures? :o

Would that be then-------

Do as I say/NOT as I do. ;)

LG

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Yep, I remember this and a couple of other things from the little brown rule book that would fit in your shirt pocket. I've still got one some where but can never find it when this topic comes up. :wacko: Good Luck :)

 

Jefro :ph34r: Relax-Enjoy

 

 

Ah Yes, the little brown rule book. :) Dug around and found a 2002 edition. The passage quoted by PWB is just a part of a larger section that discusses costuming and recommendations for developing your character and costuming for same. The purpose would appear to be a guide to helping folks get started, and offered suggestions from costume shops and thrift stores to the "Don't want to get that involved in developing your costume?"

 

So was this section, which has been deleted from the Handbook since 2006, meant as "rule" or as "guidelines" for getting started in the game, and deleted as part of a general cleaning up, and clarifying of language? I don't know the answer for certain, but it is no longer in the Shooter's Handbook.

 

Forgive me for not posting the deleted language, but those who are truly interested can refer to the old materials to review the history! :D

 

PS: Guys, this is a discussion worth having, and we can have it without personal attacks on others. We are all on the same team. :)

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"Denims of the Wrangler, Levi, and Lee variety are acceptable. Designer jeans (the ones with the colored piping and name embroidered on the pocket are not allowed."

 

"Contemporary cowboy shirts with snap fronts are okay, but not even very B-western. Inexpensive cotton work shirts with button fronts are available at Sears, Wal-Mart, K-Mart and J.C. Penny stores. These are much more representative of the type of shirt worn in the late 1800's."

 

Yep, I remember this and a couple of other things from the little brown rule book that would fit in your shirt pocket. I've still got one some where but can never find it when this topic comes up. :wacko: Good Luck :)

 

Jefro :ph34r: Relax-Enjoy

I do not recall any TG vote to remove this from the rule book. Maybe I am getting old anf forgetful.

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Grizzly Adams says:

 

PS: Guys, this is a discussion worth having, and we can have it without personal attacks on others. We are all on the same team. :)

 

I AGREE ! ! ! ! ! !

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PS: Guys, this is a discussion worth having, and we can have it without personal attacks on others. We are all on the same team. :)

Be still my "little Moderator's heart!" ;)

 

Also, as much as you don't like Tex or what he writes, there are Guidelines against making public defamatory statements about the owners. So, please be nice.

Delete a Topic or Message: Stage DQ SASS Wire Moderators have the authority to Delete Topics and are directed to do so when the message: • Contains defamatory, libelous or slanderous statements against SASS, its owners, employees or moderators, or volunteers;""

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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I wear Lee and Wrangler jeans and when I want Wah and others.

Don't have belt loops and use leather braces. My choice and meet the guidelines.

Been around long enough to see lots of changes, some good and

some things best left alone .......

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Thank you Allie Mo, just exactly what I was thinking. We can agree or disagree, but in a civil, adult manner.

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I remember an old Cajun saying my grandmother used to say. You throw a frog into a boiling pot of water, and he'll jump out because the water is hot.

 

You put a frog into a pot of cooler water and bring it up to a boil, you'll have the start of a meal.

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