Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Maybe the SASS rule book should just say, "whatever you have seen on TV or can find in any old time photo is OK in any category'? Page 2, Shooters Handbook ALL clothing and equipment MUST be worn appropriately, how it was intended and how it would have been worn in the OLD WEST or as seen on B-Western movies and television. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Is it acceptable for a lady, shooting in B Western, to remove her hat long enough in order to use it as a fan and try to revive a dead horse? More information needed. Are her guns loaded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Page 2, Shooters Handbook ALL clothing and equipment MUST be worn appropriately, how it was intended and how it would have been worn in the OLD WEST or as seen on B-Western movies and television. But we know that not EVERYTHING we have seen in B-Western movies and TV are legal in the category. SO. We still not know for SURE that it is legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Warning! Sappy Chick comment alert! I'm really liking this discussion. We are exploring alternatives, asking questions about rules, stating opposing opinions... and no one is being rude. Is this utopia or the SASS Wire? Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Is it acceptable for a lady, shooting in B Western, to remove her hat long enough in order to use it as a fan and try to revive a dead horse? I'll have to double check, but I think that fanning a dead horse is not an acceptable use of a hat in the B Western category. Using a hat to retrieve and transport water for said horse is, I believe, specifically allowed by rule, but I cannot find any mention of fanning, except that you cannot do it with a pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Doggle Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 More information needed. Are her guns loaded? No. Empty guns may however be somehow equated with deceased equine. I'll have to double check, but I think that fanning a dead horse is not an acceptable use of a hat in the B Western category. Using a hat to retrieve and transport water for said horse is, I believe, specifically allowed by rule, but I cannot find any mention of fanning, except that you cannot do it with a pistol. I thought all B Western cowboys/cowgirls were required to either fan their pistols, or sling the bullets out of them. Note to self: Explore starting new "Bullet Slinging" category as a sub-category of B Western. Revolver must be pointed down range at a minimum 45 degree angle above horizontal, brought forward in a rapid "slinging" motion and the shot broken as the muzzle crosses the target face. May have to form a committee and hire outside consultants to formulate complete rules for presentation Rules Committee and Wild Bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I'll have to double check, but I think that fanning a dead horse is not an acceptable use of a hat in the B Western category. Using a hat to retrieve and transport water for said horse is, I believe, specifically allowed by rule, but I cannot find any mention of fanning, except that you cannot do it with a pistol. That would be a great starting position, fanning the horse with your hat, putting it back on at the buzzer. MT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Doggle Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 That would be a great starting position, fanning the horse with your hat, putting it back on at the buzzer. MT Be careful what you wish for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concho Billy Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Where is PWB........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Where is PWB........ We aren't sure. He was (maybe still is) in the hospital. That is all I know, despite some queries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concho Billy Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 We aren't sure. He was (maybe still is) in the hospital. That is all I know, despite some queries. I hope he is OK...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Adams 3674 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Page 2, Shooters Handbook ALL clothing and equipment MUST be worn appropriately, how it was intended and how it would have been worn in the OLD WEST or as seen on B-Western movies and television. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 This relates to the reason that you are cooler having wet a bandana or wet your hair under the hat. But my hair isn't under my hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I"m supposed to have hair under my hat??? I guess I might could comb my beard or back hair over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 You two go ahead and ask La Migre what is meant by the term..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 do we really need Palewolf to explain what the book already says? It says hats must be worn, and appropriately.... this ain't rocket science! pbcc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concho Billy Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 do we really need Palewolf to explain what the book already says? It says hats must be worn, and appropriately.... this ain't rocket science! pbcc Yes, PWB is the final word...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Dragging up photographs from movies, either modern or from the past, does not prove that the outfits depicted is allowed under SASS rules for B-Western. It should be noted that the Lone Ranger and Hopalong Cassidy outfits do not meet the qualification to shoot in this category. The Lone Ranger wore a relatively plain shirt that laced up and his boots were plain black. Hoppy almost always wore a plain black shirt with regular pockets, and his boots were also plain black. If you want to dress like Hoppy or the Lone Ranger, you are welcome to in our Cowboy Fantasy sport, but you are not allowed to shoot B-Western Category. Pick another! The only Silver Screen/B-Western "STARs" that wore clothing that would allow him to shoot in the category were Roy Rogers and Gene Autry. If the name of the category is what is twisting your thinking, rename it to "King of the Cowboys" category, and lets get back to what the rules actually say instead of trying to point and say..... "Look.... HE/SHE dressed like that"! Please don't drag a statement from the front of the handbook which is how anyone can dress in almost any category and drag it into a category which has specific dress rules. Just because you saw a movie with a big name star wearing something or wearing something differently don't change the rules for the category. The rules get twisted/spun enough to impress even the best politician. (I' still trying to get my mind around - Short sleeve shirts are illegal but no sleeve shirts aren't". Oh well, that's for another thread.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 I remember this same topic about a year ago...hats in b western. Wish we could archive some of the good ones... I can't remember where I shot it, but I remember a match with the starting position was hat in both hands at chest level. It didn't specify where the hat went at the buzzer. Some put it on their head while others dropped the hat off to the side. Would a CC or BW shooter be required to place the hat on their head ATB? I remember the TO handing off his hat to a shooter or two who were without. Those hats usually got dropped pretty fast. I have also said it on more than one occasion...B western is the only category that requires men to wear pants... Oh look! A chicken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 NO! tha's a squrill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Eyed Kid, SASS # 37263 Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 The Lone Ranger outfit is legal in B Western with a slight modification on the boots, The shirt is OK as is. I've done the Lone Ranger in the past and must change the boots to a two-tone fancy boot and wearing spurs.Not the true L R look, but it was the only way to be "legal". Hoppy would also be legal with the boot and spur mod and as long as his solid black shirt had snap buttons. As quoted from the RO II book, page 13 Also, costumes that depict leading role characters in B–Western movies are allowed as long as the costume is complete with all accessories, but the costuming must still adhere to the boot, leather, spur, hat, and firearm requirements above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 The Lone Ranger outfit is legal in B Western with a slight modification on the boots, The shirt is OK as is. I've done the Lone Ranger in the past and must change the boots to a two-tone fancy boot and wearing spurs.Not the true L R look, but it was the only way to be "legal". Hoppy would also be legal with the boot and spur mod and as long as his solid black shirt had snap buttons. As quoted from the RO II book, page 13 Also, costumes that depict leading role characters in B–Western movies are allowed as long as the costume is complete with all accessories, but the costuming must still adhere to the boot, leather, spur, hat, and firearm requirements above. Contrary to popular notions, Hopalong Cassidy's outfit was actually a very dark blue, which looked black only because they were filmed in B/W. He was depicted also in his comic books, and comic series in newspaper as wearing a red shirt, with bluejeans, and his dark blue outfit. There are many great color pics of Hopalong, in which one can see the correct color. His wife at many conventions also corrected the blue/black outfit many times. There are also many great pics were William Boyd rode Topper in the Rose Bowl Parade, and his outfit can be seen more correctly. As to correctness of "B" western stars, and what SASS has in its rules, one only needs to look at the different stars and see that almost all had correct shirts, smile pockets, different color yokes, etc. They all had fancy rigs, and boots, of course, hats, and wore spurs which jingled. Tom Mix started the fancy costuming and his outfit would meet the criteria. MT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 do we really need Palewolf to explain what the book already says? It says hats must be worn, and appropriately.... this ain't rocket science! pbcc Amen. Some fail to notice that even when not in the hospital, he doesn't bother to respond sometimes. Sometimes the topic is just too foolish to address. The reality is this topic is similar to discussing the best course of action in the event that a meteor comes through your roof; it's very unlikely. The difference is with a meteor, someone would say, "Wow! A Meteor!" as opposed to if a B Western shooter dropped their hat to their stampede string after shooting, nobody would say a word because it's abundantly clear that the shooter is playing cowboy. In this case, the mistake was to ask the Wire. SS, I have one piece of advice for you: Talk to the MD's where you shoot. I doubt you'll find someone anal enough to insist that your wife keep her hat on top of her head while off the firing line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Shadow Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 Buck, I often appreciate your thoughts. Thanks for your input. I don't think it was a mistake to ask this on the Wire. I think it accomplished exactly what I expected, a snapshot of the reaction from the crowd. It also gave an opportunity for any official clarification on the subject. It appears that this rule would fall under the same heading as the majority of rules: "here is the rule, let your conscience be your guide". My wife and I have no intention of trying to bend rules to our liking, we enjoy this game, and are content with the guidelines provided by SASS. We will make our own decision based on what we hope is a "Spirit of the Game" interpretation of rules that may not be spelled out to the letter. We certainly appreciate all of the posters input and having this forum to explore these subjects. Thank you to you all. Another benefit to posting a question like this, is being given a glimpse into the character of the responders. Overall I think the CAS community is a great bunch of people. The tone of the Wire has been a little strained lately, in my opinion, and I think, for the most part, this discussion has been civil. Thanks again. Silver Shadow and The Allen St. Contessa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Hi Folks, The "hat hanging from a stampeed string" thing came up elsewhere. We never got a reply from the ROC as, IIRC, this thread coincided with PWB falling ill. Maybe he will chime in. I sure hope I don't end up on "The List" with Wyatt for thinking it would be okay. Regards, Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Wearing Spurs means, wearing spurs, It does not include, wearing spur ear rings,,,,,,,,etc The above is a True facts from history If it is that hot, shoot a different category for that monthly shoot When it is above 112 shooting here, I will not shoot classic cowboy due to their requirements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevada Skye, SASS #54791 Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 I personally have no problem with a B Western shooter taking their hat off while off of the Shooting line for a bit to cool down. Dump water on your head!! Put ice on it!! Whatever, but then put your hat back on correctly and get to the loading table!!!!! If it is too hot to wear your felt hats, then wear straw or palm, but shoot in a different category. As said before, not rocket science!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painted Filly Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Not trying to muddy the waters more, but there has also been some confusion regarding "B" Western attire being required for the "formal banquet" when it is combined with the awards ceremony. It's probably been addressed here before, but I don't recall the thread if it was. My exact question would be: Is "B" Western attire REQUIRED if the awards ceremony is part of an evening formal occasion? Sometimes our English language can be a little ambiguous if one is not an English major. I think I know the answer, but would love to see a definitive ruling. From page 15 of the Shooters Handbook All costumes are expected to be fancy and flashy. The “B” Western costuming must be worn during the entire match and awards ceremony with exception of evening formal occasions. PWB, hope all is well! Yes you have to wear "B" Western at all events. unless it is a formal event but once they add awards to it you have to be in costume. I would also say to the OP the hat needs to be worn. I wear mine at all times. I feel that is the proper way. And yes it does get hot! Painted Filly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Plenty of B Western characters, especially women, wore their hat by the stampede string. Think Dale Evans, very B Western. Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painted Filly Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 I can't get this forum to properly quote: This is in response to Flying W. "Lifting the hat off the head to allow a breath of cool air..." Another poster says you can "Take the hat off to fan your face." My question: How long can it be off? When that question is answered, then tell me how long someone can keep their shotgun belt pulled up while off the firing line. Then tell me if it's okay for people to remove their rig after shooting the last stage. Really? Does anyone really want to take it there? I wasn't in on the discussion inc which "worn appropriately" was added. I've always heard that it came about as a result of somebody shooting Classic Cowboy and attempting to meet the criteria for worn spurs by hanging them on their elbows. I have no clue if it's true or not, but I think I can safely say that wearing spurs on the elbows is a world away from danling your hat on a stampede string...off the firing line. We're supposed to look cowboy. If you walk into a restaurant full of non shooters wearing spurs on your elbows, they'd think you're a moron. Walk in with a hat on a stampede string and they'd think you're a cowboy. Titus, B-Western shooters do not have to wear B-Western costuming to banquets whether the main match awards are presented there or not. Again, I wasn't there for the discussion, but I suspect this was to allow folks to "dress up" even more than they might be as a B-Western shooter or B-Western party animal. Regardless of the reason, Fannie can wear her fancy dress and you can wear yours too. Buck, That is not what was said at The Four Corners Regional. They said that you had to be in costume and that was from Misty moonshine. If there are awards you have to be in costume. As far as I know you have to be in costume at the side matches as well. never heard that you did not need to be. Painted Filly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Buck, That is not what was said at The Four Corners Regional. They said that you had to be in costume and that was from Misty moonshine. If there are awards you have to be in costume. As far as I know you have to be in costume at the side matches as well. never heard that you did not need to be. Painted Filly Hi Painted Filly, The following is from the SHB page 16. "The “B” Western costuming must be worn during the entire match and awards ceremony with exception of evening formal occasions." So, you do not need to wear BW during formal events. You do need to be in costume and the implication is that it be a formal costume. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Wearing Spurs means, wearing spurs, It does not include, wearing spur ear rings,,,,,,,,etc The above is a True facts from history If it is that hot, shoot a different category for that monthly shoot When it is above 112 shooting here, I will not shoot classic cowboy due to their requirements +1 Must be worn. Not hung or dangled. Hat was made to be worn on the head. Not dangled off you back. Had been somewhat on the fence on this. But not so much anymore. Don't want to wear it. As stated above. That's simple. Sign up in another category. There. Done. That was simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Ramrod Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 This question has been beat to death numerous times, worn. All B western competitors must wear costume during all phases of the competition except for the social functions • All costumes are expected to be fancy and flashy. The “B” Western costuming must be worn during the entire match and awards ceremony with exception of evening formal occasions This means they CANNOT be hanging by the stampede strings when not shooting. You can't toss it on your cart while waiting for your turn to shoot. IT MUST BE SITTING ON TOP OF YOUR HEAD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Ramrod Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Buck, That is not what was said at The Four Corners Regional. They said that you had to be in costume and that was from Misty moonshine. If there are awards you have to be in costume. As far as I know you have to be in costume at the side matches as well. never heard that you did not need to be. Painted Filly The ROC said "side matches" don't count as far as wearing B Western costumes. Only the main match and awards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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