Surprising time at Dealership buying a new vehicle

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

Me and BlueJeans had been talking over buying a new vehicle. Watching You

Tube Videos, going over manufacturers build-it pages. Details of add ons, etc. What we wanted and what we decided on based on quality, reviewss, and costs, we settled on a King Cab Nissan Frontier. Checking local inventories of Dealers in area we found what we wanted and went to check out the vehicle. A salesman met us, we discussed the vehicle we wanted and if still in stock. Yes it was and asked for test drive. When we got back the salesman asked how we liked it and we told him we wanted to talk it over and would let him know the next day.  No hard sale, or asking us what we had for trade, etc. Just a thank you and hoping we would be back if everything was to our satisfaction in the vehicle.

We talked it over that evening, decided how much to put down and which vehicle we wanted to trade in. Our 2018 car or our 1999 Ford Ranger. 

Next morning we drove our 2018 car, met the salesman and negotiated. Our car was appraised. Figures came out. Manufacturer had a 2000.00 incentive off the suggested price. Dealer had a 5000.00 incentive added to this (neither off which we had expected nor mentioned the day before). 

When the offer came, and we were surprised how much was offered for our vehicle, just to play the game I told salesman to add another 1500.00 for the offer of our trade in we would purchase the new vehicle. Wasn't 10 minutes later salesman came back and said manager accepted the deal. 

Now the goodies, nost dealerships have all kinds of add on to raise their profits and we expected them. But dealer only added, sales tax, registration and license, and a 50.00 office fee. With trade in, incentives, and down payment cash, we have a 3 year loan at 1.9%.

 

Now the kicker added, this is funny. The Manager came out and said if we wanted a car besides our new truck, knowing we had a 1999 Ford Ranger, they had several last year new EVs autos and would take 18,000.00 off sticker asking and offer us 5000.00 for our Ranger. We said thanks, but no thanks.

 

The whole process that morning took only 1 hour. They said to come back by 2PM and the new truck would be detailed, etc. for us to pick up. It was.

 

Have to say, this has been in my years before dealing in buying a vehicle the easiest, and most stress free experience ever. I would go back to this dealer again.  Oh, 6 free oil and filter changes included.

Edited March 30 by Marshal Dan Troop 70448

[Yul Lose]

You’ll like the Frontier.

[DocWard]

@Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Thanks for letting us know. It sounds like a dealership everyone would want to do business with. I belong to a networking group through work that includes a number of small businesses. I think they would all say that if you haven't already, give the dealership a positive Google review. Believe it or not, they really help.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

How frequent are the recommended oil filter changes?

[Pat Riot]

@Marshal Dan Troop 70448 What was the MSRP and what did the dealer set the price at? I am curious. If you’d rather not say, that’s fine. 

[Rip Snorter]

Not long ago, bought a new SUV for my wife at Gem City Motors in Sidney, Montana.  The best car buying experience in decades of experience.  If you are within any reasonable distance, I strongly recommend them.

[bgavin]

On the first of December 2023, I figured I had better look into a new Toyota pickup.

The 2024 models were reduced engine sizes then boosted with turbo charges, which I absolutely did not want.
To compound this, the 2024 line is even larger, heavier, bigger, wider and higher, which I also did not want.
The ultimate deal breaker for the 2024 line was the inclusion of EV batteries.
The 2024 line is all new Version 1.0.0 engines, with all the problems that come with Version 1.0.0 products.
No thanks.

 

I did not want the 4-door truck and too-short bed.
A manual transmission is literally impossible... only 1.4% of all Tacomas manufactured have a manual, and by special order only.

Thus ends 60 years of my driving a stick shift...

I was searching for the V6, Access Cab, and Ice Cap (standard) white color, as mandatory requirements.
4wd was optional, which I wound up with.
I was not interested in the fancy trim level with even more plastic parts.. just a basic truck.

 

After calling three states and a dozen dealerships, I finally found one in Fresno.
The internet sales manager told me to get down there with a cashier's check the next day, or it would be sold to somebody else.

We drove the 175 miles down to Fresno the next day with a cashier's check in-hand.
Dealing with the fleet / internet manager was simple and elegant.
None of the B.S. of dealing with the sales vultures that hang around the front of the lot that have to play offer games with their manager.
I was given a cash price over the phone, brought a check, and out within an hour.

 

And got 26.2 mpg on the 175 ride back home.
 

[Rye Miles #13621]

The dealership I've been dealing with sadly went out of business a couple months ago, My friend, who got me into cowboy shooting worked there and sold me all my cars.  I'd been dealing with them for the last 25 years! The other salesmen and the owner used to come to the gunshop/range I worked at part time to shoot. I truly had a great experience there and they were only one mile away. They gave me some great deals. I'm stuck now but I only have 13,000 miles on my 2022 Buick Encore so I'm good for awhile but I'll never have that experience that I had there ever again!

[Cypress Sun]

4 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

The dealership I've been dealing with sadly went out of business a couple months ago, My friend, who got me into cowboy shooting worked there and sold me all my cars.  I'd been dealing with them for the last 25 years! The other salesmen and the owner used to come to the gunshop/range I worked at part time to shoot. I truly had a great experience there and they were only one mile away. They gave me some great deals. I'm stuck now but I only have 13,000 miles on my 2022 Buick Encore so I'm good for awhile but I'll never have that experience that I had there ever again!

 

Change the oil, do common sense maintenance...you'll never have to buy another vehicle again.

[Buckshot Bob]

I just got a 24 Toyota RAV 4 for my wife to replace her Subaru. I personally would have preferred her to get a bigger vehicle but that’s the size vehicle she likes “happy wife happy life”. Naturally aspirated with a 8 speed transmission, im personally not interested in the hybrids or ev at this point. BTW if you buy the adventure model “which I did” or the TRD they delete the feature that shuts off the engine at every stoplight, plus you get an engine and transmission oil cooler. When I stared talking price with the sales woman she asked me if I was a Costco member because the version I wanted had a good discount at that time, and it actually did. I had to start to walk out when they gave me the initial price on my wife’s car but quickly came up to what I originally told them I wanted. The finance guy did try to sell me everything, but it was just a quick series of no and we were done. I’ve always hated purchasing a new car and while not fun it was the best new car experience I’ve had to date.
Starting about last November car dealers were getting decent amounts of inventory again “At least in my area” and with the rise in interest rates I think many are having difficulty moving enough cars . And at this point it just seems to be getting worse for them.

I waited for the market to turn because of all the horrible stories I heard from people buying autos during the plandemic , right now unless you want something that’s rare it sure seems to be more of a buyers market. If you can ever call it that again with how expensive all cars are anymore. 

[Calamity Kris]

@Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Please tell us which dealership this is.  If I am in need of replacing my vehicle, I would like to patronize them.

[Buckshot Bob]

 

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

After a couple of previous experiences buying cars my wife was in tears and anxious heading out to buy a new one. We have only bought 2 new vehicles. The worst experience was buying a used one at a dealer.

When she needed a new car (2011 Honda Fit) I checked out as much information as I could, digging around. I eventually determined what I thought would be a good price and also a lower number that I would try to get the price down to.  We are Costco members but the dealership said they would do better then that.  Their price was lower then the best price I thought I could negotiate. They did offer extended warranty, etc. but when  i declined there was no further effort to sell it to us. Now I'm not saying that someone else more experienced couldn't have whittled down the price more, but I was happy enough. Still have the Honda with a little over 200,000 miles on it. A little while later my wife was sitting in her new car and couldn't believe the different experience at that dealer.  We had a big down payment and paid it off in not much time. No trade in.

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

20 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

How frequent are the recommended oil filter changes?

5000 miles

[Buckshot Bob]

34 minutes ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

5000 miles

That’s refreshing, my uncle used to own a dealership years ago and he said the extended oil change intervals that many manufacturers recommend were driven mainly by the cost of ownership/pollution numbers that the manufacturers have to report to the government. And I’m guessing a little planned obsolescence thrown in . 
I saw an interview with a retired Toyota engineer where he recommended 10,000 if you’re leasing “because then you just don’t care”. If you’re planning on 200,000 for your length of ownership changing every 5,000 and if you’re one who wants to drive it forever every 3,000 . Also every six months even if you’re at less than 3000. He did mention that a diesel can go longer than a gas motor, mileage and time wise being that diesel isn’t a solvent like gasoline. He also recommended changing all fluids at least every 50,000. And mentioned that while most plugs the manufacturers install now will last 100,000 many times you can have them seized in the head if you leave them in that long , so at 50,000 at least break them loose. 
When I was a kid before the days of synthetic oils I remember most places always recommended 3000 for engine oil. I found it interesting that this engineer would recommend the same with today’s synthetics . But car maintenance is another one of those things that you can start a bar fight over . 
 

[Rye Miles #13621]

My Buick manual says 5000-7000 depending on the kind of driving you're doing, Highway vs city. There's also a digital read I can call up to see how dirty the oil is. When it gets to 20% I take it in. That's usually around 6000-7000 miles.

[bgavin]

On 3/30/2024 at 8:58 AM, Buckshot Bob said:

... or the TRD they delete the feature that shuts off the engine at every stoplight, plus you get an engine and transmission oil cooler.

 

Engine off at stop lights is a 100% deal breaker for me.

Check for the engine and oil coolers.
In 2020 Toyota stopped installed auxiliary trannie coolers, but left it in the brochure.
The clod in the PR department seems to think fluid-to-fluid cooling via the radiator tanks is a "transmission cooler".
This has been a feature of automatics since I was a tot... Dad's 1958 Nomad had one.

The 2023 Tacoma is rumored to have an engine oil cooler above the filter housing.
I've not been under yet to verify or disprove.
Seems a damn stupid place for a cooler without a lot of air flow.

The ideal temp for auto trannies is 180F.
Smoggers run the radiator at 210~220F... do the math.

Add to this heat load, a heavy towing requirement, or blistering hot summer days.. and recipe for early trannie failure.

 

 

 

Edited March 31 by bgavin
Larger graphic

[Buckshot Bob]

1 hour ago, bgavin said:

Engine off at stop lights is a 100% deal breaker for me.

Check for the engine and oil coolers.
In 2020 Toyota stopped installed auxiliary trannie coolers, but left it in the brochure.
The clod in the PR department seems to think fluid-to-fluid cooling via the radiator tanks is a "transmission cooler".
This has been a feature of automatics since I was a tot... Dad's 1958 Nomad had one.

The 2023 Tacoma is rumored to have an engine oil cooler above the filter housing.
I've not been under yet to verify or disprove.
Seems a damn stupid place for a cooler without a lot of air flow.

The ideal temp for auto trannies is 180F.
Smoggers run the radiator at 210~220F... do the math.

Add to this heat load, a heavy towing requirement, or blistering hot summer days.. and recipe for early trannie failure.

 

 

 

Both the coolers are there on mine, they are not huge but they’re there . The whole reason I started investigating it was because the wilderness edition and the trd both have a higher tow rating than the rest of the trim levels “not that I’m going to tow with it” , and that’s how their archiving the rating . There’s also a plastic plug in the dash where the other trim levels have the switch to turn off the engine start/stop function. My Aunt has a Buick that stops the engine, it irritates the s##T out of me when I drive it and I don’t see how they can honestly claim it’s not going to wear out the starter, battery, engine sooner doing it. 
If I remember right it was about $5000 more for the hybrid option, but with the long term maintenance implications and the fact I can buy allot of gas for that money even at the Brandon price I opted for the wilderness edition, my wife and I drove the TRD , the suspension was quite a bit firmer and 99% of this cars use will be on paved roads.

We also looked at Honda , she liked the Toyota better and I was glad about that because the Honda is putting in a smaller turbo 4 to get a little less hp than the naturally aspirated Toyota 4 . I’ve had turbos and superchargers in the past and never had a problem but one less thing is one less thing to go wrong. 

[bgavin]

At the radiator I have only the power steering cooler in my 2023.

[Buckshot Bob]

14 minutes ago, bgavin said:

At the radiator I have only the power steering cooler in my 2023.

Different Models they do different things, also don’t know if you get “special cars” in CA still? Is CA emissions still different than the rest of the country? When I moved there in the 80’s to go to school the state forced me to become a CA citizen and register my car there. I remember the charged me $500 extra for not having CA emissions. 

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

On 3/30/2024 at 12:00 PM, Calamity Kris said:

@Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Please tell us which dealership this is.  If I am in need of replacing my vehicle, I would like to patronize them.

Coggin Nissan on Atlantic Blvd.

[Painted Mohawk SASS 77785]

Hey Marshall..ya' got a pic of the new vehicle...not sure if we get them down-under..thanks

[Matthew Duncan]

5 hours ago, bgavin said:

Engine off at stop lights is a 100% deal breaker for me….

My Jeep did that for about a week.  Found a device online that solved that.  Unsnap a wiring harness located under the dash, insert the device and the government intrusion auto stop was terminated.

Edited March 31 by Matthew Duncan

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

23 hours ago, Buckshot Bob said:

That’s refreshing, my uncle used to own a dealership years ago and he said the extended oil change intervals that many manufacturers recommend were driven mainly by the cost of ownership/pollution numbers that the manufacturers have to report to the government. And I’m guessing a little planned obsolescence thrown in . 
I saw an interview with a retired Toyota engineer where he recommended 10,000 if you’re leasing “because then you just don’t care”. If you’re planning on 200,000 for your length of ownership changing every 5,000 and if you’re one who wants to drive it forever every 3,000 . Also every six months even if you’re at less than 3000. He did mention that a diesel can go longer than a gas motor, mileage and time wise being that diesel isn’t a solvent like gasoline. He also recommended changing all fluids at least every 50,000. And mentioned that while most plugs the manufacturers install now will last 100,000 many times you can have them seized in the head if you leave them in that long , so at 50,000 at least break them loose. 
When I was a kid before the days of synthetic oils I remember most places always recommended 3000 for engine oil. I found it interesting that this engineer would recommend the same with today’s synthetics . But car maintenance is another one of those things that you can start a bar fight over . 
 

Remember back when your new car had a break-in period? Not to go over a certain MPH and change oil and filter at 500 miles? Wonder what changed? Tolerances not as tight?

[Buckshot Bob]

1 hour ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

Remember back when your new car had a break-in period? Not to go over a certain MPH and change oil and filter at 500 miles? Wonder what changed? Tolerances not as tight?

Nothing changed for me. On my wife’s new  car for the first 1000 mi we didn’t put any heavy load on it and didn’t use the cruse control. A number of mechanics I know recommend varying the rpm as much as possible “ avoid the highway” , not towing and an early oil change. 500 to 2000 mi , so I just went with 1000 
I changed the oil on her car at 1000 then at 5000 on the odometer. Now I plan on every 5000.

I would say that tolerances are better today but they do definitely try to make them spin easier for their fleet mpg stats for the government. I know a few of the manufacturers have tried to increase their MPG’s through the use of low tension compression and oil rings and had it come back to bite them in the butt, and made enemies of some of their customer's because of oil burning issues with new cars and oil rings sticking on 60 to 100 thousand mile cars causing excessive oil use, Subaru actually tried to sell it as a feature telling customers that increased mpg’s they were getting were saving them money over the amount of oil they were adding to their vehicles . In many cases they now use roller bearings and roller lifters . I’ve seen lab oil analysis data from first and subsequent oil changes and in most cases there is significantly more contamination of metal particles in the first oil change. So I can’t see leaving it in there for the normal interval the first time. The only argument I’ve heard for leaving the oil in is that some manufacturers put break in lube on the cam/lifters and bearings that helps with the initial wear . 
If you’re going to drive the wheels off of it fluids are cheap compared to replacing a major component. 

[Buckshot Bob]

This guy has a decent explanation of the difference between how the manufacturers and the consumers and mechanics think 

 

[bgavin]

I figure my new Tacoma will see 2,500 miles per year.
GEICO requires I send annual mileage numbers when I renew, so I have records going back a ways.
I drive about 5,000 total annual miles, the wife about 7,500.
My old 1991 Truck will do the other half of my annual mileage.

The first Tacoma change will be at 1,000 miles, currently at 651 today.
Afterwards, will probably be on six month intervals, spring and fall when warm enough to climb under it.

Edited April 1 by bgavin
forgot a line.

[Buckshot Bob]

If anyone is into oil as it pertains to automotive lubricants this guy’s channel is a wealth of information. He’s currently showing the results from the break in on his daughter’s new car . 

 

[Buckshot Bob]

The previous video