Reloading for a Non-SASS very old Springfield ‘03 .30-06

[Flaco Joe]

My dad, Rusty Drall, has a very old Springfield ‘03 rifle with a 13,000 serial number that puts its manufacture date at 1903.

 

I’ve heard that the older versions could have brittle receivers and that some failed catastrophically using modern ammo. The rifle has been checked by a qualified gun smith who deemed it safe to shoot, but he recommended that lower pressure loads be used.

 

I’d like to speak with anyone on the WIRE who has experience loading .30-06 for the older BAMs. I have a large selection or bullets and powders and would like to work up a load that is safe for my dad to shoot in this old gun.

 

Shoot me a PM if you have some experience in this arena. Thanks 

[Dilli GaHoot Galoot]

Good info here

 

https://forum.castbulletassoc.org/thread/1387-the-load-is-13-grains-of-red-dot/

 

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?4109-The-Load-13-grains-Red-Dot

Edited February 25 by Dilli GaHoot Galoot

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

try around 12 gns of Unique , under a 170 gn lead gas checked bullet 

 

 found this load , to be pretty good ,  in both an 03a3 and a P17 

 

  Chickasaw Bill 

[Tex Jones, SASS 2263]

This from the cmp (thecmp.org)web site:

 

The CMP advises to not use .30/06 ammunition in M1 Garands, 1903s, and 1903A3s that is loaded beyond 50,000 CUP and has a bullet weight more than 172-174gr. These rifles are at least 70 years old and were not designed for max loads and super heavy bullets. Always wear hearing and eye protection when firing an M1 Garand, 1903 and/or 1903A3 riflfle.

 

I'll add this from the CMP web site also:

 

WARNING ON “LOW-NUMBER” M1903 SPRINGFIELDS

M1903 rifles made before February 1918 utilized receivers and bolts which were single heat-treated by a method that rendered some of them brittle and liable to fracture when fired, exposing the shooter to a risk of serious injury. It proved impossible to determine, without destructive testing, which receivers and bolts were so affected and therefore potentially dangerous.

To solve this problem, the Ordnance Department commenced double heat treatment of receivers and bolts. This was commenced at Springfield Armory at approximately serial number 800,000 and at Rock Island Arsenal at exactly serial number 285,507. All Springfields made after this change are commonly called “high number” rifles. Those Springfields made before this change are commonly called “low-number” rifles.

In view of the safety risk, the Ordnance Department withdrew from active service all “low-number” Springfields. During WWII, however, the urgent need for rifles resulted in the rebuilding and reissuing of many “low-number” as well as “high-number” Springfields. The bolts from such rifles were often mixed during rebuilding, and did not necessarily remain with the original receiver.

Generally speaking, “low number” bolts can be distinguished from “high-number” bolts by the angle at which the bolt handle is bent down.  All “low number” bolts have the bolt handle bent straight down, perpendicular to the axis of the bolt body. High number bolts have “swept-back” (or slightly rearward curved) bolt handles.

A few straight-bent bolts are of the double heat-treat type, but these are not easily identified, and until positively proved otherwise ANY straight-bent bolt should be assumed to be “low number”. All original swept-back bolts are definitely “high number”. In addition, any bolt marked “N.S.” (for nickel steel) can be safely regarded as “high number” if obtained directly from CMP (beware of re-marked fakes).

CMP does not recommend firing any Springfield rifle with a ”low number” receiver. Such rifles should be regarded as collector’s items, not “shooters.”

CMP also does not recommend firing any Springfield rifle, regardless of serial number, with a single heat-treated “low number” bolt. Such bolts, while historically correct for display with a rifle of WWI or earlier vintage, may be dangerous to use for shooting.

The United States Army generally did not serialize bolts. Do not rely on any serial number appearing on a bolt to determine whether such bolt is “high number” or “low number.”

Edited February 25 by Tex Jones, SASS 2263

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Most cast bullet loads are going to be low enough pressure to still work fine even in a low serial number Springfield.  

 

13 grains of Red Dot and a 150 to 180 grain cast bullet will be a very low pressure load, and pretty accurate for at least a 100 yard target, and if the barrel is in good shape, 200 yards.

 

I have a 1918 made 1903 model, which is in the serial numbers above the "brittle heat treat" problem, that I shoot with much warmer cast bullet loads than that 13 grain load. 

 

I'd bet that an email to the CMP organization down in Anniston AL would get you a lot of information about the limits of your particular gun.  Provide them the serial number and and the numbers and markings off the receiver and barrel.

 

The info cited just above from the CMP is the best case recommendation for the 1903 receivers that are not in the brittle receiver heat treat group.  There are lower pressure limits for the "possibly brittle" guns.

 

good luck, GJ

Edited February 26 by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

30 minutes ago, Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 said:

try around 12 gns of Unique , under a 170 gn lead gas checked bullet 

 

 found this load , to be pretty good ,  in both an 03a3 and a P17 

 

  Chickasaw Bill 

This!

[Flaco Joe]

Thanks pards. Lots of good info here. 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Hang it on the wall.

Don't take a chance.....

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Use the "formula" for Trail Boss.   The case full of powder that just touches the base of the bullet is the max load.  70% of that is the minimum.   Use a load somewhere in the middle.

Will be very pleasant to shoot.  (IF Trail Boss really does come back in the near future.)

But I'd not fire a low number 03 with anything.

Edited February 26 by H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619

[Sedalia Dave]

3 hours ago, Tex Jones, SASS 2263 said:

CMP does not recommend firing any Springfield rifle with a ”low number” receiver. Such rifles should be regarded as collector’s items, not “shooters.”

CMP also does not recommend firing any Springfield rifle, regardless of serial number, with a single heat-treated “low number” bolt. Such bolts, while historically correct for display with a rifle of WWI or earlier vintage, may be dangerous to use for shooting.

The United States Army generally did not serialize bolts. Do not rely on any serial number appearing on a bolt to determine whether such bolt is “high number” or “low number.”

 

THIS ^^^^^

[Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L]

"Some Observations On The Failure Of U.S. Model 1903 Rifle Receivers"

 

From: https://m1903.com/03rcvrfail/ 

 

 

[Trailrider #896]

48 minutes ago, Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L said:

"Some Observations On The Failure Of U.S. Model 1903 Rifle Receivers"

 

From: https://m1903.com/03rcvrfail/ 

 

 

Gen. Hatcher's data is fascinating. While one can play the odds, I would NOT! Although my 81+ eyeballs ain't what they used to be, I prefer to lose the rest of my eyesight due to age, and I don't think I'd look good with a Springfield bolt sticking out of my eye socket, not having the docs try to pry pieces of receiver out of my brain!  I strongly recommend hanging that Springfield on the wall. 

[watab kid]

the 30-03 was a RN bullet im not certain but i suspect all the loading were similar for those and the 30-06 except for the bullet when they started out , what i remember from my collecting days is that some of the early rifles where of questionable integrity with modern ammo , i dont recall enough nor do i wish to re-research at this point but do be careful if your loading for one of the early ones , 

[RIDGE WALKER]

I've got a spare Remington Model 1903A3 I would sell you with a barrel date of 8-43......you can shoot the heck out of it with NO worries!!

[Flaco Joe]

Thanks Ridge. I’ll tell my dad and see if he’s interested. 

[Rip Snorter]

You might want to do a chamber cast.  In that time frame there is a remote chance it could still be a 30-03.

[Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L]

On 2/25/2024 at 4:37 PM, Flaco Joe said:

My dad, Rusty Drall, has a very old Springfield ‘03 rifle with a 13,000 serial number that puts its manufacture date at 1903.

 

I’ve heard that the older versions could have brittle receivers and that some failed catastrophically using modern ammo. The rifle has been checked by a qualified gun smith who deemed it safe to shoot, but he recommended that lower pressure loads be used.

 

I’d like to speak with anyone on the WIRE who has experience loading .30-06 for the older BAMs. I have a large selection or bullets and powders and would like to work up a load that is safe for my dad to shoot in this old gun.

 

Shoot me a PM if you have some experience in this arena. Thanks 

Very Cool!    I collect US Military Long Arms and I have a 1903 made in 1903 with a 1905 dated barrel.  Serial number 9091 but unfortunately it is 30-06 and not 30-03 but has the old style stock.    It will never be fired by me.

[RIDGE WALKER]

On 3/13/2024 at 5:57 PM, Flaco Joe said:

Thanks Ridge. I’ll tell my dad and see if he’s interested. 

Let me know if he has any interest.....it's going to go on an auction soon and they seem to be selling in the $900-$1,100 range these days in good condition.

Edited March 20 by RIDGE WALKER

[Flaco Joe]

Thanks for the offer, Ridge, but he has two already and isn’t seeking another.