John Wayne and the second American revolution

[Alpo]

He made several movies with that war in them. Sometimes he was in the war, and sometimes it was after the war but it's mentioned.

 

Just wondering how many times he was on each side.

 

The Searchers - he was a confederate cavalryman.

 

True Grit - he talks about having rode with Captain Quantrell, so again Southern.

 

Dark  Command - he was in neither Army but he was a union sympathizer.

 

The Undefeated - had a branch of Union cavalry.

 

Rio Lobo - in command of the Yankee gold shipment.

 

The Horse Soldiers - again Yankee cavalry.

 

Rio Grande - the war is over, but his wife speaks of him being a Yankee during the war.

 

There's Fort Apache and She Wore a Yellow Ribbon, and in both of them he was Union officer after the war, so we can assume he was a Union officer during the war, but it's never mentioned. So these two don't count.

 

That's all I can come up with - 2 South and 4½ North. 

 

Can anyone think of any others?

[Blackwater 53393]

He had a cameo appearance in How The West Was Won as a Union Officer. A general, I think.

 

He also “appeared” as a general or former general in an episode of Wagon Train.  He was never actually seen in the episode, but appears as a shadow/silhouette.

[Alpo]

14 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

He had a cameo appearance in How The West Was Won as a Union Officer. A general, I think.

Yep, he played Sherman, so that was definitely a Yankee - arsonist.

[watab kid]

cant think of any more offhand but i liked him in most anything he did , oh wait there was that one where the confederates refused to sured=nder , he was a union cavalry  man that one , cant recall the name exactly , but facing off mexican bandits then the mexican army i think over a shipment of rifles , 

[Alpo]

That was the undefeated. Fourth one I mentioned.

[Irish Pat]

did you mention “The Horse Soldiers” parts of it were filmed here in Natchez. They used the cadets at Jefferson Military College near Natchez to recreate the VMI fight. In the movie the Yankees leave the field to the cadets. JW sent the school a letter after the movie was done. Praising the cadets stating “they were the only ones that ever made him run! I have a bunch of cute stories about what went on in Natchez then. The school was going broke. The honorary president of the school was Vice Admiral “Tip” Merrill, awarded Navy Cross for action in south Pacific, who lived in Natchez. He was buddy with John Ford. He talked him  into adding the scene to make the school some money. 

[Irish Pat]

You did mention the Horse soldiers. I have a few more stories if anyone wants them 

[Alpo]

There's a scene in the Horse Soldiers.

 

The Confederate woman has learned some information that she should not have. The intelligent thing would be to shoot her so she couldn't tell anybody, but they're the good guys so they couldn't do that. Instead they take her along.

 

At one point she makes a break, and ifAS she is galloping off across the countryside she hasWAS followed by three or four of the cavalrymen.

 

She is galloping through a swamp and her horse loses its footing, falling on its side and dropping her in the water - kasploosh!

 

Since she is wringing wet, the only thing they can do is strip her down, wrap her in a blanket, build a large fire and try to dry her clothing off.

 

Since this was taking quite a while, and they had nothing much else to do, the doctor pulled out asHIS brand new Smith & Wesson 44 Magnum and showed her how to shoot it.

 

[Irish Pat]

A blonde in a blanket with a S&W 44 Mag! what more could I ask for! Irish ☘️ Pat

 

[Cypress Sun]

1 hour ago, Irish Pat said:

A blonde in a blanket with a S&W 44 Mag! what more could I ask for! Irish ☘️ Pat

 

 

I have to...

 

 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

1 hour ago, Irish Pat said:

A blonde in a blanket with a S&W 44 Mag! what more could I ask for! Irish ☘️ Pat

 

A blonde withOUT a blanket and a .44! Or..

[Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L]

22 minutes ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

A blonde withOUT a blanket and a .44! Or..

 

I remember when they broke the SASS Wire!

[watab kid]

nothin like girls with guns , no matter what era or outfit , gotta love em , 

[sassnetguy50]

18 hours ago, Alpo said:

There's a scene in the Horse Soldiers.

 

The Confederate woman has learned some information that she should not have. The intelligent thing would be to shoot her so she couldn't tell anybody, but they're the good guys so they couldn't do that. Instead they take her along.

 

At one point she makes a break, and ifAS she is galloping off across the countryside she hasWAS followed by three or four of the cavalrymen.

 

She is galloping through a swamp and her horse loses its footing, falling on its side and dropping her in the water - kasploosh!

 

Since she is wringing wet, the only thing they can do is strip her down, wrap her in a blanket, build a large fire and try to dry her clothing off.

 

Since this was taking quite a while, and they had nothing much else to do, the doctor pulled out asHIS brand new Smith & Wesson 44 Magnum and showed her how to shoot it.

 

Always wondered where they got the idea for Hannie Caulder.  A movie about a woman being taught to shoot a revolver while wearing a blanket on a beach.

[Mezcal Charlie]

On 1/3/2024 at 10:29 PM, Alpo said:

Yep, he played Sherman, so that was definitely a Yankee - arsonist.

Sherman wasn’t an arsonist, he was an HGTV remodeler before his time. Urban renewal one town at a time;)

[Blackwater 53393]

On 1/4/2024 at 12:43 AM, watab kid said:

cant think of any more offhand but i liked him in most anything he did , oh wait there was that one where the confederates refused to sured=nder , he was a union cavalry  man that one , cant recall the name exactly , but facing off mexican bandits then the mexican army i think over a shipment of rifles , 

That scene has stayed with me for many, many years!

 

The leader of the Confederates was played by Royal Dano and his character embodied the spirit and reason for why 99% of the Confederates fought in the war.

 

When Wayne’s character informed Dano’s character that the war was over, he replied that it wasn’t because the Union soldiers were “still on our land!”

 

Most of the portrayals of Union officers by John Wayne seemed to include a lot of personal regret over the war and the things he was forced to do in serving.

[watab kid]

7 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

That scene has stayed with me for many, many years!

 

The leader of the Confederates was played by Royal Dano and his character embodied the spirit and reason for why 99% of the Confederates fought in the war.

 

When Wayne’s character informed Dano’s character that the war was over, he replied that it wasn’t because the Union soldiers were “still on our land!”

 

Most of the portrayals of Union officers by John Wayne seemed to include a lot of personal regret over the war and the things he was forced to do in serving.

i think most of JWs portrayals were sympathetic to both sides in terms of us all being americans and it being a sad event in our history , i believe that he would be offended , as i am , at the tearing down of confederate memorials and statues , we were all americans and erasing history only breads more division , those that are not descendents of the south might think its just fine but myself - i find it offensive and divisive , i see it as an affront to my heritage , my culture , dont you dare expect me to accept anyone else if you dont accept me , 

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

the tearing down of statues and rewriting of history , is a plan to snuff the sparks of freedom 

 

  Chickasaw 

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

On 1/4/2024 at 8:43 AM, Irish Pat said:

A blonde in a blanket with a S&W 44 Mag! what more could I ask for! Irish ☘️ Pat

 

Don't dwell on that, Pat.  You'll hurt yourself.  

[Mezcal Charlie]

19 hours ago, watab kid said:

i think most of JWs portrayals were sympathetic to both sides in terms of us all being americans and it being a sad event in our history , i believe that he would be offended , as i am , at the tearing down of confederate memorials and statues , we were all americans and erasing history only breads more division , those that are not descendents of the south might think its just fine but myself - i find it offensive and divisive , i see it as an affront to my heritage , my culture , dont you dare expect me to accept anyone else if you dont accept me , 

The Duke was of a different time and hard to judge by todays standards fairly but he was wrong on many points such as the taking of native lands and the Vietnam war, EPA, the civil rights movement. On a separate note: the confederate statues are, in themselves, an attempt to rewrite history. Most of these statues were erected by the daughters of the confederacy in an attempt to rebrand the war as a states rights conflict and not one for and about slavery. And it was very successful judging by many Americans view of the war. The war, the state governments who seceded, the generals who led the armies all did so for the cause of slavery. That much is proven fact in the realm of historians. 

[Alpo]

Must be nice to be sure you know everything when you don't know anything.

[Blackwater 53393]

The war was fought over the several states’ right to self determination!! EVERY other point of contention was secondary! 
 

The seceding states had every right under the law at the time to sever relations with the Union!  If the matter had been presented to an impartial Supreme Court and adjudicated fairly, those states seeking to secede would have been permitted to do so!

 

For whatever reasons those in leadership positions chose to separate from the Union, they were within their rights and Lincoln and those who led the opposition to secession had no right to prevent it.

 

In every instance where the facts were examined in a fair and unbiased manner, it has been determined that Lincoln and the Union were WRONG!!

 

Add to that the fact that slave holding states that remained in the Union were exempted from the tenets of the “Emancipation Proclamation” and some of those states still allowed slavery even after the conclusion of the war for a time and the idea of the war being fought mainly over slavery rings absolutely hollow! And still more glaring is the fact that when, in the early years of the war where the Union was losing AND having major difficulties recruiting soldiers, the president and his staff decided that they must make the conflict a “Holy Cause” and ONLY THEN did they begin making slavery an issue!!

 

The biggest reason that most in power on the Union side, from the beginning, sought to force the seceding states to remain in the Union was to keep the agricultural and other natural resources that were available in those states that wanted out!!

 

If you don’t believe this, explain to everyone what happened during the “reconstruction” era that was forced on the seceding states after the conflict ended!!

 

NO provisions were made for integrating freed slaves into the economy or the population by those same people who sought to make the war about slavery.  Little was accomplished in the short term and most of the promises made by those “righteous” individuals were never kept!

 

Instead, government supported officials,“CARPET BAGGERS” were sent or allowed to go into those states and basically rob and murder rightful owners of property and citizens who had stood in opposition to the Union.  

 

For 99% of those who fought for the Confederacy, it was to protect their homes and families from an army of invaders!  What they did was both right and heroic.  

Those who wanted to preserve the Union left and some, but not all, joined the Union ranks.  That was their right and they too fought for what they believed!

 

It was a sad event in the history of the nation.  There were rights and wrongs on both sides.  In truth, it was mostly about money! Same as most conflicts throughout history!

 

That monuments and memorials on or for either side are removed or torn down is an absolute travesty! That is tantamount to rewriting history!  That history has always been somewhat slanted by the winners’ point of view, but in this country, where, (until recently) the other side of the story was mostly still allowed to be told, tales of valor and esprit de corps were valued and respected!

 

If we remove the monuments and destroy the facts of this history, we are more than certain to repeat the worst mistakes that were made!

 

 

[Tom Bullweed]

Rio Lobo had Duke Wayne as former Col. Cord McNally searching for Yankees traitors.

 

She Wore a Yellow Ribbon as a Yankees officer retiring in 1876, after decades in the US Army.

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

If one wants to know what the Civil War was about, one should read nothing but that which was written during the war and in the years immediately before it. Particularly by Southern figures, but Northern as well. And then draw their own conclusions.

 

Everything written since is one form or another of rationalization and special pleading. As ever, primary sources are the best.

[watab kid]

2 hours ago, Mezcal Charlie said:

The Duke was of a different time and hard to judge by todays standards fairly but he was wrong on many points such as the taking of native lands and the Vietnam war, EPA, the civil rights movement. On a separate note: the confederate statues are, in themselves, an attempt to rewrite history. Most of these statues were erected by the daughters of the confederacy in an attempt to rebrand the war as a states rights conflict and not one for and about slavery. And it was very successful judging by many Americans view of the war. The war, the state governments who seceded, the generals who led the armies all did so for the cause of slavery. That much is proven fact in the realm of historians. 

im glad you made your thoughts clear , while i disagree , i respect your position and did listen to what you had to say , ill continue to disagree tho , 

[Mezcal Charlie]

58 minutes ago, watab kid said:

im glad you made your thoughts clear , while i disagree , i respect your position and did listen to what you had to say , ill continue to disagree tho , 

 

58 minutes ago, watab kid said:

im glad you made your thoughts clear , while i disagree , i respect your position and did listen to what you had to say , ill continue to disagree tho , 

I think the Duke would agree that as Americans, that’s what we should do. So thank you for your comments. And on a side note, 44 years he’s been dead and no one can say anything negative about him except disagreeing with his opinions. He was exactly as he presented himself: a red blooded American who loved his country,  a good drink or two, and was loyal to his friends. 

[Irish Pat]

I bet the Duke and William Holden were thinking she was going to drop the towel when she pulled the trigger on the 44 magnum

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

On 1/6/2024 at 9:41 PM, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

If one wants to know what the Civil War was about, one should read nothing but that which was written during the war and in the years immediately before it. Particularly by Southern figures, but Northern as well. And then draw their own conclusions.

 

Everything written since is one form or another of rationalization and special pleading. As ever, primary sources are the best.

US Grant’s autobiography, written in his own hand and published by Mark Twain is one of those books that should be read. It’s a difficult read given the prose/style of 19th century writing. Kinda like the dialogue of Deadwood. The effort is worth it. 

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

19 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

US Grant’s autobiography, written in his own hand and published by Mark Twain is one of those books that should be read. It’s a difficult read given the prose/style of 19th century writing. Kinda like the dialogue of Deadwood. The effort is worth it. 

Definitely agree. Sherman's Memoirs likewise. His prose is very direct and to the point. No 19th century circumlocution.

[watab kid]

On 1/6/2024 at 10:53 PM, Mezcal Charlie said:

 

I think the Duke would agree that as Americans, that’s what we should do. So thank you for your comments. And on a side note, 44 years he’s been dead and no one can say anything negative about him except disagreeing with his opinions. He was exactly as he presented himself: a red blooded American who loved his country,  a good drink or two, and was loyal to his friends. 

now that i agree with you on 100% , as a great grandson of the confederacy -the rest not so much ,