Car keys with chips

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

They are programmed to the car, you can’t start the car without it. Some don’t even have a piece of metal to insert anywhere. anyway I have a 2012 Toyota Corolla. I finally did it, lost my keys, CRAP.  &$#@*

 

Toyota wants 575 plus 36 shop fee plus 45 or 245 depending on what kind of key  I want and recommends 2.   And then if (no if, when) I find my old key its useless. Hmmmm. Must have it towed to the dealer.  AAA tow shows up, what’s the problem? He gives me a business card for Keys for Cars. I call. He can fix me up for 100 to 175 . AAA pays a bit to get it down to that. Tow guy leaves at 1220, no business this trip.  1250, an Ekey guy shows up. What’s the problem? (As if he didn’t already know.)

 

he popped the lock out of the door, cut a new key.  Sat down and plugged his tablet computer into the car, played the magic, programmed a fob that does everything, he’ll it looks like my old fob.

 

I drove a whole two miles to do my errands.  All is good.

[Texas Joker]

Did you get a spare made?

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

8 minutes ago, Texas Joker said:

Did you get a spare made?

Mañana

[Rye Miles #13621]

AAA is great!

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

I'm the third owner of my '02 Miata, which is equipped with an "immobilizer."  When I bought it about seven years ago it had only one key - a cut key with a chip.  No chip, car will not work.  So off to Mazda of Fresno I go - and was totally shocked to learn that a second key would cost well north of three hundred bucks.

 

Now, my impression was that the new key, after being cut to fit the locks, was not programmed to match the car - rather, the car's computer had to be programmed to recognize the key.  I also learned that many folks, upon losing their second key, simply wire or zip-tie the remaining key inside the steering column cover.  This allows any five dollar key cut for that car's locks to work, as the car reads the RFID chip from the hidden key.

 

[Rip Snorter]

I will say, this new fob only car is a bit intimidating.  The fob is chunky, if I drove her car often, I'd put on a neck chain under my shirt. No key, no shifter, just buttons.  An amazing array of electronic marvels in addition to a backup camera view, an overhead view as well! I have no clue how they do that.  I suppose if the ecos get their way it will be the last gas(p) so it might as well be a good one.

[Rip Snorter]

1 minute ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

I'm the third owner of my '02 Miata, which is equipped with an "immobilizer."  When I bought it about seven years ago it had only one key - a cut key with a chip.  No chip, car will not work.  So off to Mazda of Fresno I go - and was totally shocked to learn that a second key would cost well north of three hundred bucks.

 

Now, my impression was that the new key, after being cut to fit the locks, was not programmed to match the car - rather, the car's computer had to be programmed to recognize the key.  I also learned that many folks, upon losing their second key, simply wire or zip-tie the remaining key inside the steering column cover.  This allows any five dollar key cut for that car's locks to work, as the car reads the RFID chip from the hidden key.

 

The Ace Hardware here in Montana makes and somehow programs those keys.  Never used the service, but they offer it.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

I absolutely LOVE the no key cars.

My Corvette and my Flex are both fob only - car unlocks when I walk up to it and my key ring never leaves my pocket.

Sit down - press the brake and the starter button.  Vroom.

 

No keys rattling as you drive along - no steering column paint chips from dangling keys.

 

And most "keyless" fobs still DO have an internal key (inside the plastic fob) to access the interior in case of a fob failure.

[Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062]

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=0e4ca9cf579d0772JmltdHM9MTY5NTE2ODAwMCZpZ3VpZD0zYmNlMjUxYi1kNWZhLTZmZGUtMjlhMy0zN2ZiZDQ2YjZlYjcmaW5zaWQ9NTQ4MA&ptn=3&hsh=3&fclid=3bce251b-d5fa-6fde-29a3-37fbd46b6eb7&u=a1L3ZpZGVvcy9yaXZlcnZpZXcvcmVsYXRlZHZpZGVvP3E9c3RhcnRyZWsrc2NvdHR5K3BsdWcrdXArdGhlK2RyYWluJm1pZD0wMkVCMjhEOTU5Q0IyQTQyRjdBRTAyRUIyOEQ5NTlDQjJBNDJGN0FF&ntb=1

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

2 minutes ago, Rip Snorter said:

The Ace Hardware here in Montana makes and somehow programs those keys.  Never used the service, but they offer it.

 

Oh, I tried 'em.  Locksmiths, several hardware stores - no go.  It seems that Mazda has proprietary software for their PCM's ("Power Control Module" - aka, on-board computer).  The software can be leased, but it's quite expensive, and generally not worthwhile for other businesses.

 

Incidentally, when I took the car in for the second key, I was told that the PCM had to be replaced under a factory recall order.  Not happy, but I let them do it.  Almost immediately, the car began having issues, like failing O2 sensors.  Mazda would have been more than happy to change one for about five hundred bucks or so, or sell me an "official" OEM sensor for $300+.  I replaced them twice with OEM units that cost under forty bucks - they seemed to last less than a week.

 

Long story shortened, a year or so later I paid Mazda to do a diagnostic - they claimed that the PCM was faulty.  The one they installed.  And, I was told, recall repairs were not warranted (!?), therefor it would cost me $1,500 - $2,000 to have it replaced.  After over twenty calls to various Mazda personnel - including their national offices - off to small claims court we went.

 

I won.

 

By the way... they showed up with four people - the mechanic who installed the module, the service writer, the Service Manager, and the General Manager.  The service manager tried to come on like a heavy, stating that I did not know what I was doing.  He was both embarassed and furious when I whipped out the schematics and described in detail what I had done, including my own diagnostic procedures, and pointed out that my measured voltage and impedence readings were all within specs.  The service manager snorted derisively, and said I should have brought it to them directly -  but when I did take the car to them to diagnose, they could only charge me $120 for their quoted one hour shop time.  It took them six hours, and involved remote dagnostic procedures from a national-level tech.

 

He then stated that they could have simply re-programmed the PCM.  He was almost apoplectic when I told him that the Miata NB PCM - and quoted the model numbers - was a ROM-chip equipped ("Read-Only Memory"), which could NOT be re-programmed; it wasn't until the introduction of the NC that they went to PROM ("Programmable Read-Only Memory") units.

 

He was absolutely furious, and stomped off when we were done.  The General Manager, who had looked on with amusement, smiled, shook my hand, and said "bring it in at your conveniece.  We'll even give you an extra key."

 

Dunno if it was related or not, but the Service Manager was gone a couple weeks later. 

 

 

 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

49 minutes ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

I also learned that many folks, upon losing their second key, simply wire or zip-tie the remaining key inside the steering column cover.  This allows any five dollar key cut for that car's locks to work, as the car reads the RFID chip from the hidden key.

 

When I bought my truck, (used), it only came with the one chipped key, and this is what I did. It only takes removing a couple screws to pull the steering column cover, and just zip tie the key to a wire bundle. 

[The Shoer 27979]

49 minutes ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

 

Oh, I tried 'em.  Locksmiths, several hardware stores - no go.  It seems that Mazda has proprietary software for their PCM's ("Power Control Module" - aka, on-board computer).  The software can be leased, but it's quite expensive, and generally not worthwhile for other businesses.

 

Incidentally, when I took the car in for the second key, I was told that the PCM had to be replaced under a factory recall order.  Not happy, but I let them do it.  Almost immediately, the car began having issues, like failing O2 sensors.  Mazda would have been more than happy to change one for about five hundred bucks or so, or sell me an "official" OEM sensor for $300+.  I replaced them twice with OEM units that cost under forty bucks - they seemed to last less than a week.

 

Long story shortened, a year or so later I paid Mazda to do a diagnostic - they claimed that the PCM was faulty.  The one they installed.  And, I was told, recall repairs were not warranted (!?), therefor it would cost me $1,500 - $2,000 to have it replaced.  After over twenty calls to various Mazda personnel - including their national offices - off to small claims court we went.

 

I won.

 

By the way... they showed up with four people - the mechanic who installed the module, the service writer, the Service Manager, and the General Manager.  The service manager tried to come on like a heavy, stating that I did not know what I was doing.  He was both embarassed and furious when I whipped out the schematics and described in detail what I had done, including my own diagnostic procedures, and pointed out that my measured voltage and impedence readings were all within specs.  The service manager snorted derisively, and said I should have brought it to them directly -  but when I did take the car to them to diagnose, they could only charge me $120 for their quoted one hour shop time.  It took them six hours, and involved remote dagnostic procedures from a national-level tech.

 

He then stated that they could have simply re-programmed the PCM.  He was almost apoplectic when I told him that the Miata NB PCM - and quoted the model numbers - was a ROM-chip equipped ("Read-Only Memory"), which could NOT be re-programmed; it wasn't until the introduction of the NC that they went to PROM ("Programmable Read-Only Memory") units.

 

He was absolutely furious, and stomped off when we were done.  The General Manager, who had looked on with amusement, smiled, shook my hand, and said "bring it in at your conveniece.  We'll even give you an extra key."

 

Dunno if it was related or not, but the Service Manager was gone a couple weeks later. 

 

 

 

That is one of many reason I do not like taking anything I own to a shop to fix.

My step dad was an automotive machinest, he was well known all over town because he was very good at his job. When I was around I would go with him to different  shops to help load or unload stuff. The things I seen and heard from those shops left me very untrusted of any shop

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

What this also means is that the car theft industry is not really deterred by “smart” keys.

 

 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

2 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

What this also means is that the car theft industry is not really deterred by “smart” keys.

There are stories going around about Honda remote keys that can be hacked and your car stolen from your driveway while your keys are still in your possession.

And a "smart" key will never deter a flatbed tow truck.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

4 hours ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

 

And a "smart" key will never deter a flatbed tow truck.

Flatbed is good for chop shops but in Florida and California they might want to ship it to South America and this will get them keys, just like new.

[Rye Miles #13621]

My 2022 Buick Encore has a key fob, push button start. There is a key inside the fob and I can get in the car from the outside if the fob goes dead but there’s no way to start the car with the key! I could start it with my phone though. 

[Matthew Duncan]

1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

My 2022 Buick Encore has a key fob, push button start. There is a key inside the fob and I can get in the car from the outside if the fob goes dead but there’s no way to start the car with the key! I could start it with my phone though. 

My Honda instructions tell me to hold the dead battery fob against the start/stop button to start the car.

 

For those that hid a fob inside the car.  Bust a window and I can drive off with your car?

[Eyesa Horg]

My GMC won't let me lock the door if a fob is in the vehicle or it is running. Used to leave the AC on when on a quick run into the store with the Rottweiler in the truck! Spose ya don't really need to lock it with a Rottweiler in the truck.

[Rye Miles #13621]

4 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

My GMC won't let me lock the door if a fob is in the vehicle or it is running. Used to leave the AC on when on a quick run into the store with the Rottweiler in the truck! Spose ya don't really need to lock it with a Rottweiler in the truck.

My Buick also reminds me to check the backseat!! I keep checking it and there's nothing there!

[Dantankerous]

16 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

AAA is great!

This.

[Pat Riot]

@Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967

When I bought my 2006 (NC) MX-5 Miata it was used. It came with two key cards (about the size of a business card and as thick as maybe a dozen business cards). The card also has a key that you can unsnap and pull out for opening the door and starting the car after removing a funky little plug that costs $36 if you break it. I know that because I broke it. 
 

Anyway the primary key card was physically broken. I had to tape it together to key the key and battery in it. The key and the card each have electronics in them. Dealer replacement is nearly $700 for both together. 
Gift wrap Scotch tape (easy to remove) costs about a buck a roll. I went with tape. 
My second key set is in perfect condition. My wife has that one. 
 

USCCA card for size comparison. 

 

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

21 hours ago, Texas Joker said:

Did you get a spare made?

 

21 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

Mañana

Two, one with the door controls, one without, at Batteries plus.  Getting Apple air tags for them all

[Sedalia Dave]

13 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said:

My GMC won't let me lock the door if a fob is in the vehicle or it is running. Used to leave the AC on when on a quick run into the store with the Rottweiler in the truck! Spose ya don't really need to lock it with a Rottweiler in the truck.

If I push the lock button 3 times I can lock the truck even if it is running. 

[Pat Riot]

1 minute ago, Sedalia Dave said:

If I push the lock button 3 times I can lock the truck even if it is running. 

If you press the lock button 3 times while also pushing the stereo on button while tapping the brake does dash open up exposing a miniature missile launch and guidance system? Or does yours come with the amplified mosquito PA system that plays really shrill sounds to get slow drivers to get out of the way? 

[Eyesa Horg]

26 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

If I push the lock button 3 times I can lock the truck even if it is running. 

Thanks for the tip SD

[Matthew Duncan]

13 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

My Buick also reminds me to check the backseat!! I keep checking it and there's nothing there!

Someone stole your backseat!?

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

When LoJack installed their equipment in Brazil, they immediately started receiving signals from cars that were stolen in Florida.