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Which clubs can handle BIG matches?


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It think having the ability to move the event would be a great thing for our sport. I feel as though it would give other shooters a chance to experience this great event that might not be able to due to many factors. 

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1 minute ago, Texas ShaDi said:

It think having the ability to move the event would be a great thing for our sport. I feel as though it would give other shooters a chance to experience this great event that might not be able to due to many factors. 

Actually, it's just another match... Just different buckles.

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Actually, it's just another match... Just different buckles.

I disagree.  It, also, carries a prestige that no other matches can match.

 

I mean, for example, as great a match as any annual is, it’s a much bigger honor to be overall world champ, than overall at any other match.

Edited by Possum Skinner, SASS#60697
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1 minute ago, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said:

I disagree.  It, also, carries a prestige that no other matches can match.

It's not a qualifying match. 

 

Prestige is a funny word when it comes to SASS matches.

 

Phantom

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2 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Actually, it's just another match... Just different buckles.

 

If it's "Just another match...Just different buckles"
Why was it such a big deal to so many in the West when it got moved to East of the Mississippi? Asking for a friend.

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1 hour ago, Ya Big Tree said:

 

If it's "Just another match...Just different buckles"
Why was it such a big deal to so many in the West when it got moved to East of the Mississippi? Asking for a friend.

Usually the biggest percentage of the shooters are return shooters, especially at WR at Ben Avery, now EOT. Many top shooters never attend WR or EOT unless

it's closer to home. Many have no desire to spend the money for a buckle regardless of where it was won. I've been to much better matches with much better stages and scenarios than at WR or EOT. Just because it's a big venue doesn't mean it's a better shoot. 

Winter Range is now EOT, same shoot, different name. Doubt there's much difference in the venue than two years ago. 

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Assassin,

that’s true.  However, you can’t be World Champion without attending the World Championship.

 

Usually, it does mean there will be more vendors, more entertainment and more competition.

 

one of my biggest pet-peeves about EOT has always been the awards ceremony being Sunday instead of Saturday night.  If you want to be there for the awards (be it for yourself or your pards) you can’t be on your way home early Sunday.  It’s a waste of nearly a whole day, IMO.

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5 hours ago, Ya Big Tree said:

 

If it's "Just another match...Just different buckles"
Why was it such a big deal to so many in the West when it got moved to East of the Mississippi? Asking for a friend.

Whatever... You really don't care to know... Saying for myself.

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3 hours ago, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said:

Assassin,

that’s true.  However, you can’t be World Champion without attending the World Championship.

 

Usually, it does mean there will be more vendors, more entertainment and more competition.

 

one of my biggest pet-peeves about EOT has always been the awards ceremony being Sunday instead of Saturday night.  If you want to be there for the awards (be it for yourself or your pards) you can’t be on your way home early Sunday.  It’s a waste of nearly a whole day, IMO.

I agree with the awards.

It's only the World Championship of those that attended. Not necessarily all of CAS. We don't have a point system, we don't invite the best and only limit to top tier shooters. It's amateur shooting, except for one or two professional shooters.

 

If SASS could compile data and create a system of ranking shooters I personally feel it would be a good investment and create more interest. Especially, at upper level matches.

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Myself, I like the friendliness of our amateur sport as it is, but then I prefer nickel-ante poker to high stakes.  While I like winning, I most want to have fun.  I've always liked the fact that at any match you would have shooters of all ability on the same posse.  And all shooters are already invited.

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You bet Assassin, we could get the best shooters in the world with a ranking system like USPSA for SASS.  Unfortunately, in our sport, considering that probably 85% of our members are over 60 or 70 years old, how many shooters based on your idea would qualify for the World Championship?  Uh, maybe 50?

WOW!!!! Wouldn't that be a great EOT shoot!!!! 

"COWBOY ACTION SHOOTING IS A SOCIAL EVENT INTERRUPTED BY GUNFIRE!!!"

Enjoy whatever time you spend playing "COWBOY".  Don't worry about where it is played.

  

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1 hour ago, Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728 said:

You bet Assassin, we could get the best shooters in the world with a ranking system like USPSA for SASS.  Unfortunately, in our sport, considering that probably 85% of our members are over 60 or 70 years old, how many shooters based on your idea would qualify for the World Championship?  Uh, maybe 50?

WOW!!!! Wouldn't that be a great EOT shoot!!!! 

"COWBOY ACTION SHOOTING IS A SOCIAL EVENT INTERRUPTED BY GUNFIRE!!!"

Enjoy whatever time you spend playing "COWBOY".  Don't worry about where it is played.

  

Why do we call it a championship? As things are, CAS will age out. What are your suggestions for growing SASS, continue what we're doing?  We used to get more people signing up in a year than we've had join in the last 13 years. 

Something needs to change or single action pistols are going to get really cheap.

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Couple of things. Putting on this size match is way past facility size. It has been brought up numerous times in this thread that there a number of ranges that have the physical ability to handle 800+ shooters. That is ONLY the starting point and probably the easiest part. As was mentioned before the planning part is basically year around. There are already ideas we are talking about for next year as we see things that can be improved. Workforce. We have 21 board members and this year 50 rangers. And all of us are busy keeping all aspects of the match running smooth. Even then things happen. If it were not for the volunteers helping with this IT WOULD NOT BE POSSIBLE. One other thing to remember is that the draw to this match is international. So you need hotels, eating establishments, etc to cater to all and be appealing. Also a decent airport. We all thoroughly enjoy hosting this and making sure that everyone who attends has a great time. That is our primary goal! And strive to make it better every year. Someone mentioned that there are better scenarios to shoot, seems they are trying to somehow lower the quality or greatness of this. Why don't you try writing stages and designs to keep EVERYONE happy and engaged shooting so it does not become redundant, remembering this is not a regular shoot but needs challenge as the National Championship that it was and now the World Championship.  It is about variety. Thank you to all that have helped and attended. 

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On 3/1/2022 at 11:49 AM, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

Having a facility to handle that size match is one thing.  Having the volunteer workforce is another.  

Exactly!

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On 3/2/2022 at 7:38 AM, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Doubt it.

 

Mark my words, EOT will be at Indiana... Unless maybe relationships change.

Maybe many years from now. Rough Riders have a contract to host EOT for several years. We put on a match like no other...

 

EOT will be in AZ for many years. And yes, any match this size takes many Rangers and we have them coming from far and wide, multi year victims, a true family...maybe a bit dysfunctional, but a family none the less.

 

Praise the Rangers!!

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1 minute ago, Nine Toe Joe #25190 said:

Maybe many years from now. Rough Riders have a contract to host EOT for several years. We put on a match like no other...

 

EOT will be in AZ for many years. And yes, any match this size takes many Rangers and we have them coming from far and wide, multi year victims, a true family...maybe a bit dysfunctional, but a family none the less.

 

Praise the Rangers!!

Not saying it'll be during the life of the contract...but I say there is a good chance it'll end up in Indiana.

 

Then of course there can be a violation of a contract condition...

 

:rolleyes:

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9 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Not saying it'll be during the life of the contract...but I say there is a good chance it'll end up in Indiana.

 

Then of course there can be a violation of a contract condition...

 

:rolleyes:

??? Did we miss the mark so SASS would pull it from us. All I heard was good....except for not contacting you for a Weds side match job....lol...

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6 minutes ago, Nine Toe Joe #25190 said:

??? Did we miss the mark so SASS would pull it from us. All I heard was good....except for not contacting you for a Weds side match job....lol...

Naw :lol:

 

I'm just having fun speculating. What with the move to Indiana...and the peripheral stuff that's going on. 

 

I also handicap horse races...but I suck at that.

 

:P

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On 3/1/2022 at 1:49 PM, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

Having a facility to handle that size match is one thing.  Having the volunteer workforce is another.  

This is so very true.  
Our club hosts our state match.  I often say that we have a "small but dedicated" committee, which is very true.  Their dedication varies from attending every meeting and work party, to pretty much attending all match set up work parties occuring in the days just before the match begins.  However, life often gets in the way of just how dedicated one can be.  This year we have lost SEVEN committee members.  Two don't have the time anymore.  Four are from the same family and they have had the perfect storm of life getting in the way for them to be able to do much more than attend the match this year.  One passed away.  How does an already small committee absorb all their chores?
Now add the rising costs of everything!   This issue will likely limit travel to work parties and matches for many.  Just today my husband and I were discussing the prospect of working at the range just one day a week once the weather breaks.  (The road to our range is closed - no winter maintenance until the ice and snow disappears.)  It's about 25 miles and a 40 minute drive away.  At the cost of gas, we need to consider if we want to do even this. 
Having been to the Ben Avery range, it's terrific!  We'd love to return.  Despite the distance, it's perfect for EOT.  Having a big match like EOT or Land Run in the east would be great.  However, going to Arizona or Oklahoma is something we'd enjoy for more than the shooting, too.  That's another draw to those matches.

In closig, I appreciate and applaud those that step up to put together matches, from the monthly shoots to EOT.  No matter the size of the crew it's an undertaking.   Thanks you and keep up the good work!

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On 3/2/2022 at 7:23 AM, Captain Bill Burt said:

It’s wishful thinking. Those of us on the east coast will remain the red headed stepchildren of SASS.

Having fairly recently escaped MA, the gun laws would make it rather difficult to pull off an EOT in the NE. Maybe ME or NH but not sure if they have the facilities.  MA, RI, CT, NY and NJ would be ‘difficult’. 

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2 minutes ago, Pepi Lepeu said:

Having fairly recently escaped MA, the gun laws would make it rather difficult to pull off an EOT in the NE. Maybe ME or NH but not sure if they have the facilities.  MA, RI, CT, NY and NJ would be ‘difficult’. 

Can't argue with that!

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I know for the next 4 or 5 years there are contracts to hold EOT and the National Championships at the current clubs.   However,  why don’t they flip flop the World and National Championships every once in a while?    World Championships in Arizona, Nationals in Oklahoma, and then Nationals in Arizona and World Championships in OK. 
 

That way more SASS members would have closer access to these events. 
 

There were a lot of first time attendees at EOT in Indiana.   I would guess the same will be true of the Nationals at Landrun. 

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On 3/1/2022 at 12:48 PM, DeaconKC said:

The ONLY problem with Sparta is that it is in Illinois, where thee Democrat Governor is as anti-gun as possible. He would enjoy nothing more than to let us schedule, then find some reason to cancel at the last minute.

True...and such a nice facility to be "controlled" by those so UN-appreciative.

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2 hours ago, Wicker Nash said:

There were a lot of first time attendees at EOT in Indiana.   I would guess the same will be true of the Nationals at Landrun. 

The EOT in Indiana was my 1st and maybe only EOT.   I guess it was EOT Lite with only 500 shooters but I think they did a great job with it.  I'm also scheduled for my 1st Nationals (Land Run) this year.  Driving 4,000 miles round trip to New Mexico or Arizona is just too far for me.  Especially since the cost of fuel is going through the roof, but hopefully that is only temporary.  We are blessed with lots of good matches around the South East so I don't feel like I'm missing out.   

 

No matter where you have EOT, it will be too far for somebody.  

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6 hours ago, Wicker Nash said:

I know for the next 4 or 5 years there are contracts to hold EOT and the National Championships at the current clubs.   However,  why don’t they flip flop the World and National Championships every once in a while?    World Championships in Arizona, Nationals in Oklahoma, and then Nationals in Arizona and World Championships in OK. 
 

That way more SASS members would have closer access to these events. 
 

There were a lot of first time attendees at EOT in Indiana.   I would guess the same will be true of the Nationals at Landrun. 

Even years World Championship in Phoenix, Landrun in Oklahoma, named/themed big match at Paradise Pass, and National Championship at club to be named. 

 

Odd years Winter Range in Phoenix, National Championship in Oklahoma, World Championship at Paradise Pass, and named/themed big match at the same club to be named.

 

That way the same four clubs, distributed somewhat evenly in terms of geographic accessibility, are rotating between their own named/themed match one year, and either the world or national championship the next year. 

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46 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Odd years Winter Range in Phoenix, National Championship in Oklahoma

You take the "Buckle" away from the folks at Ben Avery and you'll have a match that draws 150 people...so...ain't gunna happen.

 

Phantom

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On 3/1/2022 at 3:58 PM, Yul Lose said:

Having seen firsthand the work that has been and is being done by a tremendously dedicated army of Arizona Rangers I would really hesitate moving it from where it is just for that reason alone. Many don’t realize that the preparation for EOT 2023 is in the planning stages now and come Monday morning the work will begin again.

Untill you have been a part of building the match at BASF....you will never understand the work involved.

Even a range that has all stages permenant has MAJOR things needed done to be a great match.

 

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2 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Even years World Championship in Phoenix, Landrun in Oklahoma, named/themed big match at Paradise Pass, and National Championship at club to be named. 

 

Odd years Winter Range in Phoenix, National Championship in Oklahoma, World Championship at Paradise Pass, and named/themed big match at the same club to be named.

 

That way the same four clubs, distributed somewhat evenly in terms of geographic accessibility, are rotating between their own named/themed match one year, and either the world or national championship the next year. 

Delve in a bit further...

Folks to work the match (pre, during and post)

Infastructure of surrounding town (hotels, restraunts, gas stations, grocery stores, electric grid, waste management, sewer structure, hospital/emergency care....)

LEO structure (traffic, parking, security)

The list has more issues to look into on city ordenances, ect...

There is much to consider besides what is 'seen'.

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3 minutes ago, Singin' Sue 71615 said:

Untill you have been a part of building the match at BASF....you will never understand the work involved.

Even a range that has all stages permenant has MAJOR things needed done to be a great match.

 

Biggest match that I play a rather major role in was about 300 shooters. We did the match with about a dozen folks. Those dozen worked their butts off. Helpers that are looking to be nothing but a big fish in a small pond where more of a hinderance than an asset.

 

The attendees seemed happy with the product.

 

Phantom

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2 minutes ago, Singin' Sue 71615 said:

Delve in a bit further...

Folks to work the match (pre, during and post)

Infastructure of surrounding town (hotels, restraunts, gas stations, grocery stores, electric grid, waste management, sewer structure, hospital/emergency care....)

LEO structure (traffic, parking, security)

The list has more issues to look into on city ordenances, ect...

There is much to consider besides what is 'seen'.

Ben Avery has it's own requirements that are over and above many other venues.

 

Phantom

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For those in the "move the matches around the country" camp, let's scale things down a bit.  Several years ago the search was on for another club to run the PA state match.  The committee decided to step down and lighten the load, lifes's personal conflicts being the biggest issues for many of us.  Being located in northeastern PA, this change would have been an opportunity for the match to be relocated in another area of the state, making it convenient for shooters to attend from those other areas.  Slipnoose was the clubs administrator at that time.  She contacted every affiliated club in PA with no success.   Many of the affiliated clubs had successful 2 or 3 day matches, but still could not take on the responsibility of a state level match.  Moving a match around a state failed and PA went without a state match that year.  The match returned with both some new and old committee members and it continues, this now being the 17th time as host club.
There is a process for clubs to apply as the host for state and regional matches.  Criteria must be met.  I doubt Ruby's desk is overflowing with applications to be a host club.  As stated in several posts, it's not a simple task to find a new locale for a large scale championship match.  Bouncing it from range to range every couple of years is not necessarily a simple task either.  State matches have a one year contract.  I believe hosting a regional carries a 3 year contact.  The number of years goes up as the level of the match increases. 
This conversation isn't new.  It comes up on the Wire every so often.  But the result is the same.  It's way more difficult than one may think.    

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