Information about Unique please.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Okay, I hope I've got it right this time after getting my powders mixed up. 

 

With the apparently indefinite absence of Trail Boss from availability, I am looking for a different powder to try.

I am curious about Unique.   I have heard it said here on the Wire that it is the "smokeless equivalent" of black powder, and that it can do anything that black can do.  That I find intriguing.  I am hoping that someone here who uses Unique can elaborate on that a little.  I don't need loading data, I am sure I can find that in my books and on reloading forums.   I am more interested in the powder itself.  
 

I reload just about everything from .32 S&W to .45 Colt, for pistols, and from .30-30 to .45-70 and .56-60 Spencer for rifles.   If it's pistol only, that's not a problem, but I am curious about the rifles as well.  Assuming .45-70 is okay, are there Trapdoor safe loads?  (Just looking for general answers here.)  

 

Red Dot is also in short supply these days, so can it be used in shotshells?

 

What is it's pressure curve?   Does it really duplicate that of black powder?  (I assume different amounts of powder.)

 

Can it be used safely in antique black powder cartridge revolvers?  (I know Trail Boss CAN'T be, but if Unique is as good as some posts have said, I'm thinking it might be,)

Any input from actual Unique users would be appreciated.

 

Thank you in advance.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Where did you read that BP and Unique and interchangeable? 

THAT IS TOTALLY FALSE AND VERY DANGEROUS! 

Unique can be used to load every cartridge used in SASS including shotgun. 

OLG 

[Cholla]

Check into 5744. I see many articles on how it can replicate the pressures of BP provides you use it correctly. 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

8 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Where did you read that BP and Unique and interchangeable? 

THAT IS TOTALLY FALSE AND VERY DANGEROUS! 

Unique can be used to load every cartridge used in SASS including shotgun. 

OLG 

 

I've seen it posted here on the Wire a few times.  

Most recently...

 

Unique and BP is all you need to load about anything really .

Unique is the smoless version of BP .

It will work in anythig . 

It dont do anything Great but it does anything good .

Just sayin .

However, I recognize that ANYTHING said on the Wire should be taken with extreme caution, and I wanted to get more information from other shooters.

I have never felt that they would be "interchangable."  I am just wondering if a specific charge of the stuff recreates a black powder pressure curve.

1 minute ago, Cholla said:

Check into 5744. I see many articles on how it can replicate the pressures of BP provides you use it correctly. 

 

Thanks, Cholla.   I'll do some research. 

 

[watab kid]

red dot is most certainly OK for shotshells , that has always been one of its main uses , as is clays and most of the fast powders we use in handgun ammo 

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Buy a cotton pickin loading manual or go to the Alliant website.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

46 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

I've seen it posted here on the Wire a few times.  

Most recently...

 

Unique and BP is all you need to load about anything really .

Unique is the smoless version of BP .

It will work in anythig . 

It dont do anything Great but it does anything good .

Just sayin .

However, I recognize that ANYTHING said on the Wire should be taken with extreme caution, and I wanted to get more information from other shooters.

I have never felt that they would be "interchangable."  I am just wondering if a specific charge of the stuff recreates a black powder pressure curve.

 

Thanks, Cholla.   I'll do some research. 

 

NEVER-was it said to use Unique in place of BP.

FYI, Unique was the first smokeless powder to be put on the market for reloading.

OLG 

41 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

Buy a cotton pickin loading manual or go to the Alliant website.

X100!

OLG 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

As I said, I have reloading manuals to give me load data.   I was just trying to get some clarification of something I saw posted here on the Wire.   And if it confirmation is negative, so be it.   

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

There is a difference in describing the two as being equivalent vs both being very versatile. 

[Wyatt Earp SASS#1628L]

You are misreading what was posted. Smoking Gator just explained it very well.

When I started reloading for cowboy I went with Unique for it's suitability in both 45 and 12ga. Still use it today.

[Hoss]

Unique is a very versatile powder. Certainly any SASS legal gun. 

 

I use it in 45-70 with 405 & lighter bullets. For my heavy 535 grn Sharps Bullets I use 5744 as I read somewhere that unique should not be used with bullets heavier than 405. I have shot lots of 405s with 14.2 Unique. Very nice, accurate load that does not beat you up. 
 

Unique is not safe in BP only guns

 

 

[Trailrider #896]

Unique IS a versatile powder.  But, as others have said it is a smokeless powder and not to be confused with any black powder or BP substitutes.  Loads up to 8.0 grains have been used very successfully in .45 LC, .44-40, behind bullets in the 250 gr in .45 Colt's and 215 gr. in .44-40.  CONSULT MANUALS FOR DATA!  I have also used Hodgdon's Universal as my standard .44-40 load behind 213.5 gr. bullets.  Universal is close, but NOT IDENTICAL to Unique.

Happy and Safe Holidays!

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Okay, sounds to me like the comments I've read in the past were about Unique's versatility, not it's "burn characteristics" for lack of a better way to put it.

For the record, I do use BP or subs in my antique revolvers.   I was just intrigued buy a comment that suggested that there may be a smokeless powder safe to use it in them.   No loss if there is not.

I'll see if I can find some unique to load up my smokeless stuff after I burn through what's left of my Red Dot.   (Can't find any of that either.)   I'll just continue as always with the black.

Thanks to all for helping me clarify things.

[Stump Water]

When I started reloading 35 years ago I tried them all (or so it seems today).  Unique was, by far, the dirtiest powder... I'm talking dirty like cheap .22LR dirty.

 

There's still some in that first, and only, that 1 lb. can I bought way back then.

 

I guess it's possible that it has been "cleaned up" since then.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

2 minutes ago, Stump Water said:

When I started reloading 35 years ago I tried them all (or so it seems today).  Unique was, by far, the dirtiest powder... I'm talking dirty like cheap .22LR dirty.

 

There's still some in that first, and only, that 1 lb. can I bought way back then.

 

I guess it's possible that it has been "cleaned up" since then.

If was reformulated a few years back and does burn cleaner now

Not a big deal....

OLG 

[Snakebite]

2 hours ago, Hoss said:

 

 

Unique is not safe in BP only guns

 

 

The pressure spike at the front of the powder burn with smokeless will stretch the Iron frame of most BP only revolvers.

["Big Boston"]

I've used Unique and it's bastard stepchild Universal in various cowboy calibers. Unique is a good pistol powder, but not what I'd classify as being well suited to CAS. If you like to load near the 1000 fps velocity limit, it works real nice. If you want 600 or 700 fps velocities, it doesn't work that well. 

 

At lower velocities (and lower pressures) it gets a bit dirty burning. It also begins to be a bit position sensitive and primer selection to achieve consistent ignition gets a bit tedious. Accuracy will suffer as well. 

 

Unique has a fairly good percentage of nitroglycerine, and as such tends to get dirty if the pressure is too low for complete ignition. 

 

When Unique was first invented, the goal was to be able to duplicate BP velocities without a large increase in pressure. BP velocities are hard to duplicate without exceeding BP pressures. That's just the nature of BP. It is still burning well past the muzzle. Barrels were long to take advantage of that. Unique will burn fairly completely in a 4 5/8 44 Magnum barrel with minimal flash. BP in a 4 5/8" barrel is more like fireworks than ammunition. Lots of fire and smoke and some velocity. 

 

It works well in the 20 ga shotgun and in heavy 12 ga loads as well. 

 

When I began shooting Cowboy I had a 44-40 rifle. I loaded it with a 200 gr bullet and Unique, about 9.5 grains. That load is near 1400 fps, accurate and will dent most cowboy targets. Anything below 6.5 grains will be poor enough in accuracy to miss a few targets. BTW, IMHO, 9.5 grains is a bit much for most toggle link lever action rifles, mine was a 1894 Winchester Commemorative. I never used that load in a handgun, and don't suggest it as a CAS handgun load as it will probably be over 1000 fps, and have enough pressure to strain a cheap gun.

 

BB

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

BB, I load 6.5gn of Unique under a 240 moly-coat RNFP bullet in a .44 Magnum case for SASS.

Shoots clean and very accurate in my Ruger's and Marlin 94 with M/G rifing. 

Use Unique in my wife's  .38 Special loads she uses in SASS. 

They too shoot very well.

I have used magnum primers with very firm roll crimp with lower end loads using Unique with good results.

I suggest you do more research 

OLG  

["Big Boston"]

Never too old to learn, and do a bit more research. Unfortunately my 1# container is less than half full now, so testing will be minimal.

 

I've fooled with the 44 Mag, in a Marlin 1894, that can be a challenge.

 

What are your velocities? If your velocities are in the 700 fps for your low end load, I'll be wanting to try that. A good low velocity load in a 44 Mag has been  my nemesis for years. 

 

Velocity Av

755.6/751.5

Es

20.5/25.36

Sd

8.24/11.13

Shots

5>/5<

 

That's the best I could do with a 208 gr bullet. I used Trail Boss. IMHO: Unique will not be as good at that velocity.

 

I did try Unique with a 240, but at 7 gr my Es and Sd started to go towards the toilet. I went back up to 7.5 and that was the charm. hovering around 995 fps in a 5 1/2" barrel. It duplicates the 44 Special Skeeter load. 

 

Velocity Av

993/1003

Es

30.8/47.7

Sd

11.8/18.7

Shots

5>/5<

 

BB

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Like I said, use a mag primer and very firm roll crimp on the lighter loads.

My 44 load shows 840fps in my 5.5" Rugers and 1150fps from my Marlin carbine.

Not a fly fart load for sure...

OLG 

[Griff]

AA5744 is a great "rifle" powder for big BP era cases... but, it isn't very good for pistol calibers or shotgun.  It's my favorite powder for 45-70 & 40-90SBN smokeless loads.  

[Rancho Roy]

Unique is "unique" in that it can be used in so many different cartridges. I shoot a lot of long range "Buffalo Rifle".....If I'm not using BP, I use unique....I've won a number of meets with these two loads....

38-55...9g Unique under a cast Lyman or LEE 250-255 bullet...Using a 3/4" X 3/4" piece of single ply topilet paper to hold powder against primer (EXTREMELY IMPORTANT to mitigate "predetinition") And transport them with the primer down.....

 

45-70....12g Unique under a cast 405 bullet with TP wad (see all cautions above)

 

Both recoil like a 22 magnum and extreme accuracy in any of my 38-55/45-70 rifles......

 

I use Unique in 45ACP, 38-40, 38special, 44-40, 45 Colt, 28-20-12G shotgun.......Great powder, easy to find and burns plenty clean enough....

 

IT IS NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR BP IN VINTAGE GUNS!   The pressure peak at ignition is much, much greater than BP.....Although overall pressures are manageable its that "spike" that can wreck your day!