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WTC. Coaching


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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Snakebite said:

There is no doubt that this entire situation can be "Sticky". We all know that subjectivity is a part of the Rule enforcement in this game. Unfortunately everyone that get their hands on the Timer doesn't have the same view of things. I agree that offering a reshoot at the Big Matches ought to have concurrence by a Major Match official before it is given. I just don't see any way that "Coaching" by Peanut folks or kneejerk reaction from others on the Firing line will ever be stopped. The closest we can come is to educate shooters that if they respond to instructions from anyone other than the T.O., that it falls upon them. I can offer one excellent example of that. EOT a few years ago. Shooter pulls second handgun and sweeps the target from the wrong direction. A shout comes from the back field to "Stop". The shooter stops. I instructed him to continue. He refused. I told him he would receive a DNF. He then continued and we got a time on him. He appealed and lost the appeal. Turns out that the call came from his wife. If he made a mistake she would yell stop, he would stop and then argue with the T.O. and get a reshoot claiming that he was just following orders. I had a couple folks come over to me after the fact and tell me that was normal routine that he and his wife used at matches. This was NOT a run of the mill shooter.

And I've heard of "Posses" that do that...maybe you have too? :ph34r:

 

I think that serious consideration must be given to the idea of No Coaching. If a Cease Fire is required, there will be little doubt that the T.O. is giving that command.

 

Phantom

 

Clarification: Coaching is allowed...by anyone. If the shooter responds to the coaching, it's on them!

Edited by Phantom, SASS #54973
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2 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I think the whole issue of Coaching needs to be addressed. Is SASS a shooting competition or is it a "Watch me and for god's sake, help me run through the stage as good as I can" Dress up meeting.

 

There is no way on God's Green Earth that folks with all levels of hearing, with hearing protection (hopefully), can distinguish who is calling out a command...simply can't be done.

 

Why do we allow coaching at all??? Okay...maybe call SG targets "UP"...:ph34r:

 

It should be the duty of the T.O. to make sure that the shooter doesn't do something that may cause harm (that does not include harming one's ego), but outside of that...it shouldn't be their job to make sure that the shooter has the best results on a stage.

 

Phantom

 

Dang Phantomborg,  thats pretty good.  ;)

 

Personally, and I have bad hearing, I prefer NOTHING to be yelled during my stage run because many

of us have trouble distinguishing what is actually being said.

 

..........Widder

 

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This discussion has given me a lot to think about.  Thank you, all that contributed.  

 

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In general, coaching seems to generate more questions and hard feelings than it resolves. I don't know of any other shooting sport that allows or requires it.

 

In T.O.-ing, I've had competitive Posse members tell me I helped their competitor too much.  And on the other side,  I've been called "dumb as a post" by one angry experienced shooter for not coaching enough (failing to stop him quickly enough from beginning with the pistol instead of the rifle, per the stage instructions). 

 

I now coach when requested, or with new or very young shooters.  I generally don't try to assist in avoiding target order procedurals, but I will help to get a shooter back on track after a distraction like a gun malfunction.

 

I don't consider calling back a shooter to a restaged rifle with a known round in the carrier, or if it is teetering to fall off a table as "coaching". 

 

 I seriously doubt any two Timer Operators do things exactly the same.  In fact, I doubt any single TO does it perfectly equitably between different shooters.  IMO, our game would be more fair without coaching.  But again, IMO, calling a shooter back to correct a safety issue is not "coaching".  It is part of the stated T.O. duties.  

 

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11 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

don't consider calling back a shooter to a restaged rifle with a known round in the carrier, or if it is teetering to fall off a table as "coaching".

Really... So what do you call it?

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17 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Really... So what do you call it?

Id call it correction of a safety issue, just the same as stopping a shooter from turning and sweeping folks.  I agree it helps the shooter avoid a penalty,  but it's also a safety consideration-- a grade or two heavier than just coaching them through the target order. 

We could easily get caught up in semantics here, but I do see a difference between a TO preventing a target order or gun order infraction and preventing a shooter from leaving a gun in an unsafe condition.  Perhaps that's just my perspective.  Coach me here as needed. 

 

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Posted (edited)

I do see improvements in the coaching verbiage over the various versions of the rules.

 

I separate safety from, for want of a better words, performance coaching. "Target 3" is in a different class from "one more."

 

Yes, this sport allows performance coaching at the points level. It is a difference from most other sports.

 

On edit: Dusty beat me to it.

Edited by John Kloehr
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9 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Id call it correction of a safety issue, just the same as stopping a shooter from turning and sweeping folks.  I agree it helps the shooter avoid a penalty,  but it's also a safety consideration-- a grade or two heavier than just coaching them through the target order. 

We could easily get caught up in semantics here, but I do see a difference between a TO preventing a target order or gun order infraction and preventing a shooter from leaving a gun in an unsafe condition.  Perhaps that's just my perspective.  Coach me here as needed. 

 

One of the silliest thing in SASS...calling a live round in an open rifle pointed down range a Safety...

 

Coaching is coaching. If someone turns around and sweeps people with a loaded firearm...now THAT'S a safety issue. Having a spent hull in a shotgun...nope! We may call it a safety, but it's really not.

 

The little things that get some folk's panties in a wad should be considered "Coaching" if told to correct...and I for one would like to see "Coaching" done away with...as well as Restarts. Yer either ready or you're not...and that includes running through the stage properly.

 

Coaching...like being able to stop a long gun from falling...means some will benefit from a good T.O. while others suffer. This is NOT a true competition...and yes, I know that the falling long gun rules have changed, but it's a good example of how "Coaching" interferes with the running of a true competition...or do we just get dressed up and pretend we're competing...??

 

Phantom

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14 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

I do see improvements in the coaching verbiage over the various versions of the rules.

 

I separate safety from, for want of a better words, performance coaching. "Target 3" is in a different class from "one more."

 

Yes, this sport allows performance coaching at the points level. It is a difference from most other sports.

 

On edit: Dusty beat me to it.

Then it's not a competition and we should just call it an enhanced version of Reenacting.

 

CARS...Cowboy Action Reenacting Shooting!

 

Phantom

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I have scored more penalties from unsolicited coaching than my own errors so I'm definitely in the no coaching camp. 

 

When I TO, I usually only coach if requested.  I own my stages whether it turns out good or bad.

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28 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

One of the silliest thing in SASS...calling a live round in an open rifle pointed down range a Safety...

 

Coaching is coaching. If someone turns around and sweeps people with a loaded firearm...now THAT'S a safety issue. Having a spent hull in a shotgun...nope! We may call it a safety, but it's really not.

 

The little things that get some folk's panties in a wad should be considered "Coaching" if told to correct...and I for one would like to see "Coaching" done away with...as well as Restarts. Yer either ready or you're not...and that includes running through the stage properly.

 

Coaching...like being able to stop a long gun from falling...means some will benefit from a good T.O. while others suffer. This is NOT a true competition...and yes, I know that the falling long gun rules have changed, but it's a good example of how "Coaching" interferes with the running of a true competition...or do we just get dressed up and pretend we're competing...??

 

Phantom

We agree.  

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I had two shooters at yesterday's match, one experienced and one new, who left the last round in the rifle.  Luckily, I caught both right away so they didn't have to lose much time firing the last round.  Even though its the shooter's problem I think preventing a MSV is  within the TO's area.  Having said that, I prefer no one coaching because, as has been said, once the buzzer goes off I own the stage. 

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As a TO, with experienced shooter, unless they ask, I rarely say anything. Sometimes asked to remind them “right to  left” or something like that, which I will do. Or if they obviously get out of whack on target order, I’ll try to help get gem back. I do concentrate on counting shots, especially with rifle to watch for jacked out rounds. With a new inexperienced shooter I try to do a bit more coaching. 
 

As a counter, about the only thing I’ll holler is “they’re  down” or “UP” on shotgun targets, especially with BP shooters. 

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I would FULLY support the abolishment of all coaching.

 

A full exam and clarification of exactly WHEN the TO should interfere (obviously safety issues), but we currently call a lot of things as "safety" issues - that are not unsafe and should simply incur a time penalty for failure to abide by operational rules.

 

The TO/ Officials should be limited to very few STANDARDIZED commands.

Squib - ground the firearm.

Ceasefire.

Stop.

 

Any occurance (operational, safety, or procedural) not requiring one of these commands to continue the stage SAFELY - is left until stage completion and penalties assigned as earned.

 

That said; I would have no issue with a category system that "allows/ encourages" coaching for certain groups of shooters (youth/ new/ medical needs (but like youth shooters are not eligible for overall awards - a shooter signed up in a coachable category could not win beyond category and participation in such a category {excepting medical} would likely require an expiration date after first match to preclude category shopping).

 

Then as a shooter - I can tune out any commands, shouts, advice that are not part of the TO official lexicon.

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1 hour ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

We agree.  

After giving more thought (we still agree, but) maybe the difference is that "coaching" assists with stage instructions and correction enforces SASS rules.  Just an afterthought. 

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I will not wade into if a "minor" safety violation is really minor if it involves safety. I do see a difference between a round on the carrier and a round in the chamber. Particularly in a firearm which may not be drop-safe. But I take it as a principle no live round should ever be in a "discarded" firearm in this sport (aside from a "Bad Gun" declaration). The principle eliminates arguments about carriers versus chambers.

 

But coaching for performance? Other sports allow it for informal or "non-points" matches. Many sports allow or even encourage it for beginners. Many sports prohibit it at regional/state or higher levels.

 

With this framework, I'm not that far away in opinion from @Dusty Devil Dale or @Phantom, SASS #54973.

 

We should be capable of shooting without coaching for performance at the higher levels, but coaching to avoid a DQ is not a bad thing at any level. It avoids the reason for the DQ in the first place. If safety coaching in some case gives some shooter an advantage compared to some avoided penalty, I can live with that.

 

 

 

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A lot has been said over the years about TO's, spotters, peanut gallery. Not all TO's are 100% up top speed with the latest rules and or clarifications, Spotters are terrible to excellent. Shooters have a range of clarity when they approach the stage. Its apparent when the stage instructions are read, and questions asked, and asked and asked. Then someone comes up and does something wrong and syas I thought you could do this. But they couldn't.

Someone goes to holster an empty pistol and is poking at the holster, safety sort of, should someone holler at them? The TO can see both sides of the shooter.

Winter Range. I was TO for a shooter who was having issues with her pistol ammo. The primer would go off, but no ding and no one saw the bullet exit the barrel. I called squib she put the pistol down. No squib. I gave her a re-shoot. She comes up and does the same thing. I call squib and again no squib. I asked the spotters and they didn't see anything leave the barrel, hit the target or dirt. I got together with Posse leader and we told her to change ammo or DQ. About this time the Range master shows up and wants to know why we're running behind on time for that stage. We explained. The posse leader and I got yelled at for delaying the stage with reshoots. That ended my days of being a TO at Winter Range. Time and schedule were more important than safety.

I told this tale because you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. I could have let her blow a gun up I guess.

 

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33 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

After giving more thought (we still agree, but) maybe the difference is that "coaching" assists with stage instructions and correction enforces SASS rules.  Just an afterthought. 

Shooter's should be aware of SASS rules just as much as stage instructions.

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53 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Shooter's should be aware of SASS rules just as much as stage instructions.

We agree again, in principle.

  

So in your opinion, should a TO just remain quiet and issue penalties after the shooter finishes the stage and time is captured, except in dire safety situations requiring a STOP or CEASE FIRE command?

That actually seems pretty workable and fair, as long as it is uniformly applied

(e.g., nobody ever gets coached "One more" or called back to fire a last rifle or pistol round or open an action).  

 

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27 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

We agree again, in principle.

  

So in your opinion, should a TO just remain quiet and issue penalties after the shooter finishes the stage and time is captured, except in dire safety situations requiring a STOP or CEASE FIRE command?

That actually seems pretty workable and fair, as long as it is uniformly applied

(e.g., nobody ever gets coached "One more" or called back to fire a last rifle or pistol round or open an action).  

 

Yes...but this is just one guy's opinion...some will say that it takes Cowboy Action Shooting to a level that's too serious. But "It's" either a shooting competition or it's not...IMHO.

 

I'm open to calling SG targets "UP"...or "Again"...It's reeeeeal hard to stop that command since it comes from just about everyone on the posse and is consistent across posses. There is really no advantage from one T.O. to another. It's all about trying to be as consistent as possible across all posses (squads).

 

Phantom

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Considering all TO's aren't the same, along with other stage officers. Yes, "silence" should be the golden rule.

The TO isn't supposed to be watching targets or hits and misses. He/ she is supposed to watch the shooter and guns. If doing their job properly (by the rule books) they cannot possibly coach a shooter in all situations. Shooters need to be prepared when called to the shooting line. I get lost on occasion, that's on me, no one else. 

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Posted (edited)

Be careful what you ask for when you restrict the Timing Operator from coaching.

 

Most "NEW" shooters need to be coached and even "walked through" the stages.

Even experienced shooters get lost in a sequence when the brain takes a vacation.

Many of our older shooters are becoming more forgetful and need help to keep them on target sometimes.

 

Asking a timer operator to be silent except when a "dangerous situation" has consequences.

What does this silent timer operator say when the shooter comes to line and wants to know their hands should be?  You own the stage. You figure it out.

 

 

Edited by Ace_of_Hearts
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48 minutes ago, Assassin said:

Considering all TO's aren't the same, along with other stage officers. Yes, "silence" should be the golden rule.

The TO isn't supposed to be watching targets or hits and misses. He/ she is supposed to watch the shooter and guns. If doing their job properly (by the rule books) they cannot possibly coach a shooter in all situations. Shooters need to be prepared when called to the shooting line. I get lost on occasion, that's on me, no one else. 

Well I thought I was done, but I must respectfully disagree with this. A Good T.O. watches everything. The T.O. doesn't concentrate on watching targets, but very often should look at targets... especially in tight situations where the Spotters might not have the best advantage to see them. Not watching for misses, but target order, sometimes a possible edge hit that they can relay to the Spotters. Nowhere does it say that the T.O. should just watch the shooter and the gun. A good T.O. should and will take in a very wide berth of what is going on during execution of the scenario by the shooter. I have indeed seen many poor T.O.s that just just don't understand what their job is. They just hang their hat on that old line about watching the gun, and then stand there like a Post holding the timer. THAT is not being a good T.O. Nobody can do the Job of T.O. for long periods of time without a break. It takes concentration. Also... I realize that we are just speculating as to how we might like to see things be done, and I agree with a lot of it. I am on record of suggesting a limited amount of coaching but we must remember that Coaching is part of the T.O. job (at this point in time) as listed in the RO I, so any good T.O. should be prepared to Assist the shooter when needed. 

 

Snakebite

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3 minutes ago, Snakebite said:

Well I thought I was done, but I must respectfully disagree with this. A Good T.O. watches everything. The T.O. doesn't concentrate on watching targets, but very often should look at targets... especially in tight situations where the Spotters might not have the best advantage to see them. Not watching for misses, but target order, sometimes a possible edge hit that they can relay to the Spotters. Nowhere does it say that the T.O. should just watch the shooter and the gun. A good T.O. should and will take in a very wide berth of what is going on during execution of the scenario by the shooter. I have indeed seen many poor T.O.s that just just don't understand what their job is. They just hang their hat on that old line about watching the gun, and then stand there like a Post holding the timer. THAT is not being a good T.O. Nobody can do the Job of T.O. for long periods of time without a break. It takes concentration. Also... I realize that we are just speculating as to how we might like to see things be done, and I agree with a lot of it. I am on record of suggesting a limited amount of coaching but we must remember that Coaching is part of the T.O. job (at this point in time) as listed in the RO I, so any good T.O. should be prepared to Assist the shooter when needed. 

 

Snakebite

 

Hip, Hip, Hurrah.

 

..........Widder

 

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16 minutes ago, Ace_of_Hearts said:

Be careful what you ask for when you restrict the Timing Operator from coaching.

 

Most "NEW" shooters need to be coached and even "walked through" the stages.

Even experienced shooters get lost in a sequence when the brain takes a vacation.

Many of our older shooters are becoming more forgetful and need help to keep them on target sometimes.

 

Asking a timer operator to be silent except when a "dangerous situation" has consequences.

What does this silent timer operator say when the shooter comes to line and wants to know their hands should be?  You own the stage. You figure it out.

 

 

Too funny...first off, the shooter doesn't "Own" the stage until they indicate that they are ready and get the "Beep"...come on...

 

Yes, if you are a new shooter and have absolutely no idea about what you are doing...put the guns down, watch, ask questions...then pick up the guns again and go to the loading table. Most clubs will assign someone to help for those that are Brand-New...

 

I'm sorry for the folks getting old...and forgetful...cuz that's including me. I DO NOT want to be coddled. If I can't remember crap well enough to compete with my peers, then I'll accept my position in the match results and/or move on. I'm NOT going to be the one that keeps this competitive game from being a game just so that I can feel all warm and fuzzy about myself.

 

If you want this game to be a "dress-up play cowboy but don't call this a competition", then keep things the way they are...

 

Phantom

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11 minutes ago, Snakebite said:

Well I thought I was done, but I must respectfully disagree with this. A Good T.O. watches everything. The T.O. doesn't concentrate on watching targets, but very often should look at targets... especially in tight situations where the Spotters might not have the best advantage to see them. Not watching for misses, but target order, sometimes a possible edge hit that they can relay to the Spotters. Nowhere does it say that the T.O. should just watch the shooter and the gun. A good T.O. should and will take in a very wide berth of what is going on during execution of the scenario by the shooter. I have indeed seen many poor T.O.s that just just don't understand what their job is. They just hang their hat on that old line about watching the gun, and then stand there like a Post holding the timer. THAT is not being a good T.O. Nobody can do the Job of T.O. for long periods of time without a break. It takes concentration. Also... I realize that we are just speculating as to how we might like to see things be done, and I agree with a lot of it. I am on record of suggesting a limited amount of coaching but we must remember that Coaching is part of the T.O. job (at this point in time) as listed in the RO I, so any good T.O. should be prepared to Assist the shooter when needed. 

 

Snakebite

I have to disagree a bit.

 

Most "Less than stellar" T.O. generally NEVER watch the gun.

 

A good T.O. will utilize their peripheral vision...but most of the time they should be watching barrel movement.

 

I agree...obviously...with the fact that it's the JOB of the T.O. as it stands right now to "Coach". My argument is that "Coaching" diminishes the Competition to the point that it's not really a competition...we just want to THINK it is...but it's not.

 

Phantom

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There are so many times I have wished a TO would just keep their mouth shut and get out of the way. I have several experienced, young shooters. Often a TO will assume they are a new shooter and tell them all sorts of things, sometimes yelling out unneeded coaching in the middle of shooting that breaks their concentration and confuses the heck out of them. If they needed help, I would tell the TO beforehand. But they don't need help and if they do they will ask. There was one well intentioned older gentleman at WR that felt like he needed to keep his arm around my daughter the entire time she was shooting the stage and lead her slowly to each position, explaining what she should do next. She absolutely didn't need a speck of help! A TO for the pistol speed event at EOT thought he needed to show my boy the correct way to hold a gun before seeing him shoot or even touch his guns. My boy had been competing for years and wouldn't be at the speed event if he didn't know how to hold a gun. My point is that a TO isn't going to know everyone's experience level and shouldn't have to. Everyone seems to want to help and give advice and I appreciate it when it is helpful, but the time for that isn't in the middle of the stage. 

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53 minutes ago, Snakebite said:

Well I thought I was done, but I must respectfully disagree with this. A Good T.O. watches everything. The T.O. doesn't concentrate on watching targets, but very often should look at targets... especially in tight situations where the Spotters might not have the best advantage to see them. Not watching for misses, but target order, sometimes a possible edge hit that they can relay to the Spotters. Nowhere does it say that the T.O. should just watch the shooter and the gun. A good T.O. should and will take in a very wide berth of what is going on during execution of the scenario by the shooter. I have indeed seen many poor T.O.s that just just don't understand what their job is. They just hang their hat on that old line about watching the gun, and then stand there like a Post holding the timer. THAT is not being a good T.O. Nobody can do the Job of T.O. for long periods of time without a break. It takes concentration. Also... I realize that we are just speculating as to how we might like to see things be done, and I agree with a lot of it. I am on record of suggesting a limited amount of coaching but we must remember that Coaching is part of the T.O. job (at this point in time) as listed in the RO I, so any good T.O. should be prepared to Assist the shooter when needed. 

 

Snakebite

The best coaches I have seen is a fellow shooter that stays behind the shooter and assists the shooter through the stage. Not the TO, not a spotter, or other person working the posse. I know a couple that coaches for each other and it works quite well. They will yell out the shooting order for each gun, missed sg target, etc. They are also world champion shooters and have the focus thing figured out. They can react much quicker than the TO. Especially with today's sub 20 second stages. Perhaps shooters should choose a subordinate to coach them. 

 

Most TO's can't keep up with the shooters running through a high movement stage with multiple options. Everything has already happened before they can react to anything. The stages are not like 15-20-25 years ago when we shot smaller targets at distance with minimal movement and few multiple hit targets. 

 

If it were left to me the TO would just be a safety officer. The timer could be on the shooters person they start the clock and rock on.

 

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Posted (edited)

Team shooting is the WORST thing that has ever come into this game. Whole posses were formed just so they could help each other. I had so many problems dealing with them that it was the number one issue on the ROC. Every member and every WB member was oppose to it and one WR member put a stop to it, at least at one WR where it was running rapid on one posse. They were ALWAYS in the way of the T.O.. They would get into Spotting positions and do their cheerleading, coaching and yelling and never saw any misses or anything that the shooter did wrong. It was in fact one of the most unsavory things that I a have ever seen in this game. 

Edited by Snakebite
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10 minutes ago, Snakebite said:

WOW! Team Shooting. THAT

That sort of "teamwork", while TMK not specifically prohibited, sure defeats the game as most of us know it.  And for what purpose? 

I Hope they enjoy their championship buckles.  

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Does this 'Team Shooting' mean that team members spot for each other and TO for one

another?

 

I got some good friends that I shoot with that can be considered 'VERY GOOD' shooters, etc.....

But It'll be a cold day in July in South Alabama before I let any of them 'shadow' me on a stage,

just so I might have a better chance at the Caddy.

 

..........Widder

 

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I wish folks would just let the shooter (who said that they are ready to shoot the stage...), shoot and accept the time they put down.

 

Take responsibility for their performance.

 

And the Team thing...yeah...know about that...In fact I think those involved ended up developing an acronym for what folks were saying about them...

 

How hard would it be to limit coaching to calling SG targets up? Don't see how you're going to stop folks from yelling out commands...guess you can't eliminate that. But you can take it away from the duties of the Stage Officers. As I currently see it, that the best way to make the match consistent across all Posses.

 

Hell...I don't know...but I do know the current way just ain't good.

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I shoot a lot of Cody -Dixon, which is rifle caliber shot at 60-100 yds. (Pistols & shotgun same as everyone else) 

I’ll usually ask my Pard to watch my first few shots to make sure my sights haven’t been jarred a bit. He will holler low -high or left - right if I’m not hitting center. 

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13 minutes ago, Hoss said:

I shoot a lot of Cody -Dixon, which is rifle caliber shot at 60-100 yds. (Pistols & shotgun same as everyone else) 

I’ll usually ask my Pard to watch my first few shots to make sure my sights haven’t been jarred a bit. He will holler low -high or left - right if I’m not hitting center. 

If CD was a recognized SASS category I'd be okay with that but only for misses...kinda of a Long Range kinda thing. I would not be okay with calling out "Hit" as that will influence the Spotters. After the stage, buddies can get together and tell him/her what they were seeing and they can make adjustment...even ask T.O. for a fouling shot to check sights out before the next stage. 

 

Phantom

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Posted (edited)

The sad thing is, we all know there is a problem - but there is no will to fix it.

 

Let someone ask about the adhesive method to affix sight coloring to their pistols and, oh man - the ROC has to convene and hammer out a ruling.

Because doggone - the difference between tape and glue is earth shattering.

 

But a major and prevalent issue such as uneven coaching, improper direction, input from non match officials and the impact of team shooting - an actual meaningful COMPETITION issue?

Crickets.

 

I will tell you this - if I were to decide to return to a club leadership position again; the first rule I would implement would be "No Coaching" PERIOD.

If it is NOT a safety issue requiring immediate ceasefire (of the stage or an individual firearm) - the stage belongs to the shooter.

Your results on the scoresheet will represent your EFFORTS solely.

Not the skillset or lack of skillset from your spotters or TO.

 

I would encourage all other Club Officers and Match Directors to implement the same.

Announce this as a condition of your monthly matches/ annual events and Championship shoots.

We are all allowed to implement additional range specific rules. 

And as NO coaching is specifically mentioned as not grounds for reshoot (and by its mention offers it as a viable possibility) - All SASS rules would still apply and the position of TO to SAFELY assist the shooter would still be in affect - Just assistance would actually apply to safety alone - not performance.

 

If change on this issue is not going to come from the front - then the change will have to come from the grassroots.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Creeker, SASS #43022
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