Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Black powder shotshell questions


Recommended Posts

I reload smokeless shotshells, but I have never reloaded black powder shotshells. 

 

I did one by hand to check fitment of my components. Big smoke! Big fun!

 

Now i need to load more then my prototype, so i have questions.

 

Will black powder go thru a rcbs chargemaster ok?

Can i use regular powder drop?

I used “Goex FFFG” because i had some. What should i use for smoke and clean gun?

i did 63grains with 1oz of 7-1/2 shot. Correct for sass?

What do i use to seal top card?

 

I will shoot in remington 1890 sxs, and/or original winchester 87 lever.

 

edit: using 2-1/2 brass shells and cut down plastic win AA to approx 2-1/4

What roll crimp is recommended for plastic shells?

 

 

 

Edited by Marshall Dillon
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 120
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Paper vs plastic and throwing donut holes.       

I just sat down after spending the last hour loading 8 boxes of BP shells on my MEC Grabber..... Yes, I load Real Black on a progressive MEC Grabber and have been for about 20 years.....  I

More details on my homemade priming tool.     I took a scrap of wood. Happened to be an oak survey stake. Installed a hinge. Closed it over and drilled a hole of the appropriate si

Posted Images

Marshal, I use FFFg or sometimes FFg, but only about 40 grains.  I will not run black powder through my powder measure, but scoop instead.  Also, I don't use cards, I use plastic wads.  WAA12F114 to be precise and 1 oz. shot.

 

Good luck with it and ENJOY!

Possum

Edited by Possum Skinner, SASS#60697
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428 said:

I can't answer some of your questions... But 3F seems a bit fine for a 12ga.  I use 2f in my 12ga loads (for modern guns) and 1f in my 10ga loads for my original 87.

 

I roll crimp, so dont need to seal the top card.

I will load brass shells too. They must use cards? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm relatively new to this too.  I don't use smokeless powder or plastic wads, since BP and BP Substitutes are more forgiving on ratios and loadings.

 

I've been using Pyrodex in my shotshells because someone gave me two lbs of the nasty stuff, and my side by side shotgun is by far the easiest to clean.

 

I settled on 3.7cc of powder and 4.3CC of #7 1/2 shot.  I use a Nitro over-powder wad 1 and 1/2 fiber wads between powder and shot. 

 

I use an old used MEC600 jr to de-prime, then Lee dippers for powder and shot, then back to the MEC600 to do the star crimp.  I can get a couple loadings before the crimp petals get too brittle.  I might then use the hulls one more time with roll crimps, but I haven't done that yet.  So far I have plenty of once or twice fired hulls so the plastic is plenty soft for good crimps.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Marshall Dillon said:

I will load brass shells too. They must use cards? 

Yes, they use cards over the shot.  I haven't gone that route...yet.   I have seen people mention everything from elmers glue to liquid glass.  You may be able to search for that thru the Wire.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Diamond Jake said:

 

I settled on 3.7cc of powder and 4.3CC of #7 1/2 shot.  I use a Nitro over-powder wad 1 and 1/2 fiber wads between powder and shot. 

 

I use an old used MEC600 jr to de-prime, then Lee dippers for powder and shot, then back to the MEC600 to do the star crimp.  

No crimp for me. All 2-1/2 chambers

Link to post
Share on other sites

The first few shells I made used an over-shot card and elmers glue; these were in plastic hulls with the old star crimps cut off.  I had one round go PFFT when shot, and another couple that fell apart in the box.  Then I went with roll crimped over the card, then eventually I got the MEC adjusted for good star crimps.  You'll have to experiment with different glues; you'll probaby find what works best of the brass won't be the best for the platic.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Loading brass shotgun I use 11 ga. wads and cards. Card over powder 2F GOEX, wad, shot, card. Elmers glue to hold card in. Amount of powder and shot is up to you. I found larger powder loads tend to start blowing holes in the center of the shot.

I now load 45 grains and 1 1/8 ounce 7 1/2 shot.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Loading brass shotgun I use 11 ga. wads and cards. Card over powder 2F GOEX, wad, shot, card. Elmers glue to hold card in. Amount of powder and shot is up to you. I found larger powder loads tend to start blowing holes in the center of the shot.

I now load 45 grains and 1 1/8 ounce 7 1/2 shot.

Are all 11 ga wads the same thickness?

Link to post
Share on other sites

The roll crimp put on a brass hull is there just to enable easy entry into the chamber.  The less you need there, the better the brass hull lasts.  It will not shoot out for many rounds put through each hull.  There are shell holders and sizing dies made by RCBS (iirc) to occasionally resize the fired hull in a single stage press.  You WILL NOT successfully resize in a progressive shotgun press!

 

Elmer's glue, carpenter's glue, PVA glue, water glass (real name is sodium silicate made into a gel with a little water), hot glue - all will shoot out of the hull when the wads and shot pass by.   Clean out any remaining chunks if you need to, for easier loading next time.

 

Soak brass hulls in soapy water either at range, or as soon as you get home.  You don't want to leave any BP fouling (or most subs, either) to corrode the brass hulls.

 

No, not all wads of any gauge are the same thickness.  Use what you need to fill up the hull - with brass hulls you have a LOT of choice of how tall the full stack with an overshot card on top will be.

 

40 grains Goex FFg and 1 ounce of shot was all I used in my BP loads.  Plenty of smoke and knockdown power.

 

good luck, GJ

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I shot plastic shells for about ten years using 35 grains FFG, Plastic wad#CB1100-12, 1 oz 7 1/2 shot and no problems with this load. I now load brass shells with 55 grains FFG with  a 11 gauge 1/8” nitro card, 1 1/2 11 gauge fiber wad, then 1 once 7 1/2 shot, then a 10 gauge overshot card glued in with duco cement. When I clean the brass shells I run a 12 gauge brush inside the shell to remove the ring the glue sometimes leaves in the case. I have always loaded plastic black powder shells with a dipper and the load the shot and crimp with my press. Have fun and enjoy the fire and boom of black powder. DC

Link to post
Share on other sites

I just sat down after spending the last hour loading 8 boxes of BP shells on my MEC Grabber.....

Yes, I load Real Black on a progressive MEC Grabber and have been for about 20 years..... 

I use the Exact same set up that Black Dawge Powder Company used to load Commercially for several years.

 

One hour total time, 200 shells in 8 boxes, ready to Go, including set up before and cleanup after.....

 

Plastic Hulls.... Red or Green... whatever I pick up after a Match, with 32gr. of Real 2F BP, Claybuster CB1100-12 wads and 1oz reclaimed shot.

 

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1FG will give you glorious streams of burning granules all the way to the SG targets. Use caution in the fall around dry grass/leaves. (Ask Blackwater ! )  :D:D

  • Like 2
  • Haha 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

They recommend not running black powder through regular powder drop measures as there is a concern with static and the sensitive black powder.  Some reloader powder measures have brass drums and internals to reduce or eliminate the possibility of static.  Some reloaders are made specifically for use with black powder for safety.

 

I currently don't use an overshot card as I drop more shot.  If I reduce the amount of shot, I might try using the overshot card.

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Frontier Lone Rider said:

They recommend not running black powder through regular powder drop measures as there is a concern with static and the sensitive black powder. 

To each his own. But there have been many posts and studies showing that static electricity isn't an issue with real BP. Not sure about subs. I load BP through my MEC 600 and my Dillon powder drops.

 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Yusta B. said:

1FG will give you glorious streams of burning granules all the way to the SG targets. Use caution in the fall around dry grass/leaves. (Ask Blackwater ! )  :D:D

 

You Are Correct, It will start Grassfires....

And it will get you Banned from shooting BP at certain Clubs in N. TEXAS in the Summertime & Fall.... I Know !!! :rolleyes:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Silver Sam, SASS #34718L
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The issue with running real black powder has NOTHING to do with static electricity. The issue is that there could be a piece of foreign material in the powder that could get caught in the powder measure and cause a spark. The most common contamination is sand. Trees grow in soil that often has sand in it. Pinch a piece of sand in a powder measure made of ferrous metal and it will cause a spark hot enough to ignite the powder. This is why BP rated powder measures are made of brass or aluminum.

 

Secondly is the powder hopper. It is made of metal with a light weight lid so that if the powder is ignited the force of the explosion is directed upwards and not outwards towards the operators face.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, I still use the machined Aluminum powder hoppers on my loaders that Black Dawge use to  sell.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

While I have a Lee Loadall and two Mec 600s, one 12 and one 10 and several Lyman black powder measures,  I found that all said and done,  I just use scoops - Lee or antique.  I roll crimp plastic hulls and glue in top card in brass hulls so the loading press is not an improvement. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Silver Sam, SASS #34718L said:

Yep, I still use the machined Aluminum powder hoppers on my loaders that Black Dawge use to  sell.

I bought one and then went to a local metal yard and bought aluminum tubing for 1/3 the cost.

Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

I bought one and then went to a local metal yard and bought aluminum tubing for 1/3 the cost.

 

That's one reason Wally quit selling 'em, then he Sold the Company...  Lock Stock & Barrel to Powder Inc.....

Heck he gave me mine for FREE :D

Actually, I think I bought the 1st one, then he gave me another.....

Then he showed me how to make one for my MEC out of trash can left overs :D

 

I sure do miss Old Wally (Dawge Nose)... He was a Great Buddy!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Silver Sam, SASS #34718L
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Marshall Dillon said:

What roll crimper is recommended for the plastic shells?

 

You can buy an antique off of ebay or BPI sells one.

Link to post
Share on other sites

image.thumb.jpg.a27db90609a58fd5ee8d5b9ecc4d81d6.jpgI have had one of those laying on a shelf for at least 20 years. I am so accustomed to it laying there I don’t even notice it anymore. It worked perfectly! I am excited! 

Edit: sort of perfectly,,,,

i tried saga hulls. The primers fell back out. The saga hulls did roll perfectly though in my practice rounds.

Edited by Marshall Dillon
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Marshall Dillon said:

I reload smokeless shotshells, but I have never reloaded black powder shotshells. 

 

I did one by hand to check fitment of my components. Big smoke! Big fun!

 

Now i need to load more then my prototype, so i have questions.

 

Will black powder go thru a rcbs chargemaster ok? Probably, but I've never tried it. Lee dippers are the way to go.

Can i use regular powder drop? A regular funnel? Yes.

I used “Goex FFFG” because i had some. What should i use for smoke and clean gun? Hot soapy water, rinse, dry, & oil.

i did 63grains with 1oz of 7-1/2 shot. Correct for sass? No need for that much, but it'll work. I use about 50 grains volume with 7/8 oz shot, and have used 1Fg, 2Fg, 3Fg, and Cartridge Goex, Elephant 3Fg, Kik 2Fg and 3Fg, Skirmish #1 and #3, Pyrodex P and RS, APP 2F and 3F, Hodgdon's Triple 7 2F and 3F, Goex Pinnacle 3F, and Alliant Black MZ with equally good results - Black MZ was only available in one granulation and appears to be about 2F.

What do i use to seal top card? Elmer's carpenters glue for brass, no need when using plastic hulls - just star crimp em or roll crimp with a card.

 

I will shoot in remington 1890 sxs, and/or original winchester 87 lever.

 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Marshall Dillon said:

I will load brass shells too. They must use cards? Yes - I use Elmer's carpenters glue to hold 'em in.

 

7 hours ago, Marshall Dillon said:

A friend has some brass that was roll crimped.

It is ducks unlimited ammo. 

Will that roll crimp come straight when shot? Probably not entirely.

 

7 hours ago, Marshall Dillon said:

Did the line of elmers go away cleanly when shot? Not on brass shells - soak 'em in hot water for awhile and it easily scrapes off with a popsicle stick. Never tried it on plastic shells.

 

2 hours ago, Marshall Dillon said:

What roll crimper is recommended for the plastic shells? BPI or similar chucked in a drill press works best. It's hard to get enough friction heat with the antique hand cranked ones to make a decent roll, but it seems to have worked on your sample, so... I use a standard star crimp on most of my plastic shells, and modified a Lee Load-All to do a star crimp on 2 1/2"ers.

 

Edited by Three Foot Johnson
Link to post
Share on other sites

I use Goex 3F and have for years. 10 in through 28 ga. and .38spl. to .45 Colt ...

For 10 ga I use 5.6 cc of shot and powder, ,, 12 ga I  use 4.3 cc measure of shot and powder .... 16 ga I use 3.4 cc of each , 20 ga. 3 cc of each ...

 

Jabez Cowboy

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.