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  Pards,

 

        I very recently purchased a Ruger Redhawk in 44 Mag for fun shooting and I will not be loading to full power.  I have a Lee 429-200-RNFP mold.

To start I plan to use up my Hodgdon 800-X powder.  The Hodgdon website says 5.2 to 5.9 grains for a 200 grain RNFP bullet and a OAL of  1.570"

 

Question --  When I crimp at the top of crimp grove my measured OAL is 1.560" and if I seat my bullet at the beginning of the crimp grove the OAL will be 1.570".   

                       Is that worth doing?

 

Question -- My Lyman 4th book has a recipes using a saeco # 420 200 grain swc using 13.4 to 14.8 grains of 800-X powder.  I understand that a swc is a different                                  bullet shape than a rnfp but the charge weight is more than double?

 

Question -- Hodgdon lists the pressure for 5.9 grains at 10,500 cup, that's pretty low, is it safe to start low, work up in small increments and go above 5.9 grains?

 

Thanks

Chestnut

   

540062556_44mag.jpg.cb34368b7cbebaa4ad3b1010243103fd.jpg

 

 

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That 0.01" isn't going to matter at all. As for 800x, I've never used it. But 10.0 grains of Unique with a 200 grain bullet will knock a coyote ass over apple cart and not hurt ya a bit.

Edited by Michigan Slim
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I use 7.5 gr Hodgdon's Universal behind a 213 gr. .430" hard cast commercial bullet.  MV = 950 ft/sec from a 7.5" barrel OM Vaquero.  Not sure if I'd tackle a griz with that load, but it the equivalent of a .44-40 load with 8.0 gr of the same powder in a 22" barrel rifle at around 1075 ft/sec.  Probably wouldn't want to take it for griz, but it might do the job at that!

Stay well and safe, Pards!

Happy & Healthier New Year!

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4.4 grains of Cleanshot behind a 200 gr RFNFP or 200 Gr SWC, mild recoil, only a little dirty. Or you can go 27.3 gr of WW 296 behind a 200 gr JHP for nosebleed loads.

 

Imis

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I shot a lot of .44 magnum at handgun silhouette in the 80's. Best accuracy always came at about 90% of maximum. I used H110, 4227, and others I can't remember right now. Below that accuracy suffered until you hit the traditional .44 special loads, but those are with different powders; Clays, Unique, Green Dot. There's just not much use trying much between the two ranges. Just my experience, others may differ.

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8.5 grains of Win 231 was my standard load for 44 mag for years. In my Marlin 1894 with 20 inch JM barrel rifle, it performed well for 100+ yards. I used them in my 7.5 inch barreled revolver, worked well was a bit on the hotter side. I am now loading 5.5 grains of Trail Boss for a lighter cowboy load with a 200 grain bullet.  It seems to work fairly well, In my Marlin rifle, need to do some more testing . 3.0 grains of trail Boss with a 160 grain bullet is my handgun cowboy load, I use a Russian or Special case.

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31 minutes ago, Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485 said:

I think that Lyman book must be a very old book, If its a 4th edition because the new ones are 50th edition. Don't use that data, those old timers were crazy!

I don’t know that I’d say they were crazy, but much less constrained by attorneys. Use the data with caution. 
 

I have several 1950s Lyman manuals that have served me well. Definitely wider ranges of loads. 
 

My pet cowboy load was 5.5gr of Bullseye under a 200gr RNFP. It basically duplicates 44 Special performance, but could still ring a rifle target at 100 yards. 

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9 hours ago, chestnut louie said:

  Pards,

 

 

Question -- My Lyman 4th book has a recipes using a saeco # 420 200 grain swc using 13.4 to 14.8 grains of 800-X powder.  I understand that a swc is a different                                  bullet shape than a rnfp but the charge weight is more than double?

 

 

   

 

 

 

 

You need to compare the velocities and chamber pressures of the two loads. Bet there is a huge difference.

Also cast bullets cannot be pushed to the same velocities as jacketed.

 

BTW becareful that you do not choose a load that is designated as a Ruger Only load.

Edited by Sedalia Dave
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2 hours ago, Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485 said:

I think that Lyman book must be a very old book, If its a 4th edition because the new ones are 50th edition. Don't use that data, those old timers were crazy!

 

The current Lyman Cast bullet Handbook is the 4th edition. The current Lyman Reloading handbook is the 50th edition.

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4.5 gr. of Clays under 200 RNFP was a joy in my 92 carbine.      GW

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One of my favorite guns to shoot is a Smith and Wesson 629, 5" barrel, in stainless steel.  I have made three loads for it -- two in .44 magnum and one in .44 special.  One load is for range practice, one for letting children and newbies shoot a .44 magnum, and one load for killing a dinosaur behind the refrigerator at the neighbor's house. :)

 

I seem to recall we're not supposed to post load data here, however.

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28 minutes ago, Cyrus Cassidy #45437 said:

I seem to recall we're not supposed to post load data here, however.

 

That rule was rescinded a few years ago.

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35 minutes ago, Cyrus Cassidy #45437 said:

One of my favorite guns to shoot is a Smith and Wesson 629, 5" barrel, in stainless steel.  I have made three loads for it -- two in .44 magnum and one in .44 special.  One load is for range practice, one for letting children and newbies shoot a .44 magnum, and one load for killing a dinosaur behind the refrigerator at the neighbor's house. :)

 

I seem to recall we're not supposed to post load data here, however.

I also load those. The boomers get 240 or 300 grain Hornady XTPs. 

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The problem with the loads shown in many of the older manuals is that the means of measuring pressures was much different...primarily copper crusher method, which didn't give actual pressures.  Most loads shown today are measured with piezoelectric sensors.  They can also show the pressure-time curves, rather than just maximums.  Still, some of the "standard" loads have been found to be valid.  The other caveat in using loads from any manual is that the pressures shown are for the particular test equipment, ONLY!  Variables in a particular gun can produce some pressure excursions.  Chamber dimensions, cylinder barrel gaps, and a whole bunch of other factors can change things.  That is why it is best NOT to go to maximum loads directly, but to start 10% lower and work up.  OTOH, going lower than the MINIMUM recommended loads can produce some real problems!  Trailboss, for example can show some erratic burning near the MINIMUM loads shown in most manuals.  In bigbore rifle cartridges, NEVER reduce loads under minimums shown with slow-burning powders (IMR4891 for example), as there can be some very dangerous pressure excursions caused by poor ignition, especially if there is a lot of excess space in the cartridge.  Shock waves can form that will then send pressures sky high and pieces of the rifle with it!  If you must go to "lighter" loads, go to a faster-burning powder!  Note: this phenomenon is NOT "detonation", but the effect is the same.

Happy, Healthy and Safe New Year, Pards!

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5 hours ago, Cyrus Cassidy #45437 said:

, and one load for killing a dinosaur behind the refrigerator at the neighbor's house. :)

Now that’s funny right there!

 

After years of shooting mild 44 mag loads in CAS, I’m stepping back into the dinosaur game. My dad gave me his Super Blackhawk that’s been magma-ported, action tuned, and Pachmyer grips installed. Time to find some 240 and 300gr pills to let roar!

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17 hours ago, Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485 said:

I think that Lyman book must be a very old book, If its a 4th edition because the new ones are 50th edition. Don't use that data, those old timers were crazy!

Its the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th edition,  its different from the Lyman 50th book that I also have

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2 hours ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

Mild .44 Magnum is known as the .44 Special.

Well, yes...unless your rifle won't feed the shorter rounds reliably...or at all.  Rather than mess with bullet nose/OAL, I just use the mangle-em brass with my "reduced" loads described above.  I adjusted the loads in the .44-40 and .44 Magnum to have the same point of impact from my convertible OM Vaqueros.

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OP, your Redhawk will shoot 44 Russian, 44 Special or 44 Magnum. 

200 grain with Clean Shot or Clays in 44 Special is a wee bit less recoil than Trail Boss in 44 Russian.
44 Russian is the only brass currently showing as "in stock" on the Starline site.

IMO, it is pointless to run short, ultra light rounds in a rifle.
You have the COAL problems noted above, plus recoil in a rifle is half or less that of a revolver.

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FWIW - (which ain't much :rolleyes: )  The .44 Russian cartridge was originally BP.  When S&W brought out a smokeless version, they didn't want the higher pressure loading to be able to fit into older guns.  Now, in some cartridges when the brass was lengthened to be able to fit more BP, or whatever, it was common to call it the "whatever Long". But, no.  S&W decided to call the .44 Long Russian, ",44 Special" instead.  Then, when they upped the pressures and brought out guns to match, they lengthened the cartridge once again, and called it .44 Magnum (or as I call those full-power loads, ".44 Mangle-em"!  But when I load the longest cases to match my SASS .44-40 loads, I call the cartridges ".44 Extra-Long Russian"!  A rose by any other name...can still stick you with its thorns! :P:rolleyes:

Stay well and safe, Pards!

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Don't worry about the extra thousandth or whatever short you are. I would make sure all my brass was trimmed to same length and seat all identically. Crimp groves aren't always where they need to be. Might get a little fouling or leading buildup where you come up short to the cylinder throat. 

 

The Hodgdon website load is a 10,000+ CUP load for a cast bullet of unspecified alloy. That's a an 813 FPS cowboy load.

Both my Lyman 48 reloading manual  and  Lyman 4th edition cast bullet book show the use of linotype and #2 alloy loads with 800X in the 12 to 15 grain range with pressure from 36,000 to 39,000 CUP at around 1200 fps. Nothing really over the top.

Use recent published data ( which all three are, not to mention the various other loading manuals) and know what alloy your bullets are is all I can recommend. Start low and work up looking for leading and pressure signs.

800x is good to work with, similar to Unique and IMR 4227 in pressure and velocity.  Titegroup, 231 are a little milder and Trail Boss would be almost like you're shooting 38's.

Edited by Dirty Dan Dawkins
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