Purly SASS # 57438 Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 Shotgun instructions are for 4 + shots. Targets are popper targets. Shooter is to shoot a knockdown that throws a clay into the air. Two targets. Any missed birds can be made up on stationary target. Shooter knockdowns first popper and hits bird. Then shoots second knockdown but next shot foes not fire. Shooter reloads two shells and shoots stationary target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 No call. Fired 4+ shells, made up miss on flyer on stationary. Next shooter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 Shooter fired the 4 shots plus the makeup shot. Sounds clean to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 This sounds very familiar Purly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 Wait a minute. Was Captain Bill Burt involved in this situation? I may want to change my vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 19 minutes ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said: Wait a minute. Was Captain Bill Burt involved in this situation? I may want to change my vote. LOL, I was the TO, not the shooter. But thanks for the love! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 PURLY, please clarify. Are you saying that the shooter hits the KD with the THIRD shot but the FOURTH shot failed to fire at the bird, OR, are you saying the shooter attempted to shoot the KD BUT the round didn't fire? ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purly SASS # 57438 Posted November 1, 2020 Author Share Posted November 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said: PURLY, please clarify. Are you saying that the shooter hits the KD with the THIRD shot but the FOURTH shot failed to fire at the bird, OR, are you saying the shooter attempted to shoot the KD BUT the round didn't fire? ..........Widder He tried to shoot but the round never fired. He reloaded, double barrel, and shot the make up. To late for the bird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 Was there controversy about the call? Seems like an obvious no call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 14 minutes ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said: Was there controversy about the call? Seems like an obvious no call. I said it was a no call, and one of my favorite cowboys wasn't sure. No real controversy or dispute though. He's a smart fella and his question made me wonder if I got it right. My reasoning was that the shooter attempted to engage the flyer until it hit the ground, at that point he reloaded and hit the makeup, satisfying the 4+ shotgun requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 Ok. Without someone questioning the call I figured it wouldn't even merit a discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 He did it correctly. The only thing that might even be remotely in question, very remotely, is he didn't "shoot where it was", meaning putting shot #4 somewhere in the air over the popper where the clay would have been. Putting both shots on the makeup may have saved a few hundredths of a second over "shooting where it was", then swinging to the makeup target. Did he place .04 second ahead of the next guy? Then it could be a controversy, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Three Foot Johnson said: He did it correctly. The only thing that might even be remotely in question, very remotely, is he didn't "shoot where it was", meaning putting shot #4 somewhere in the air over the popper where the clay would have been. Putting both shots on the makeup may have saved a few hundredths of a second over "shooting where it was", then swinging to the makeup target. Did he place .04 second ahead of the next guy? Then it could be a controversy, I suppose. I don't recall if he shot two at the makeup or just one. I'm pretty sure he fired a total of 4 shotgun, but I'll defer to Purly on that. Admittedly I wasn't as steady as usual having picked up a MDQ on the previous stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Captain Bill Burt said: I don't recall if he shot two at the makeup or just one. I'm pretty sure he fired a total of 4 shotgun, but I'll defer to Purly on that. Should have shot 5. First popper, first clay, second popper, second clay "where it would have been" which would be a miss on the 4th shot, then the fifth round on the makeup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 12 minutes ago, Three Foot Johnson said: Should have shot 5. First popper, first clay, second popper, second clay "where it would have been" which would be a miss on the 4th shot, then the fifth round on the makeup. The OP stated that the instructions said, "any "missed birds can be made up on stationary target"... Shooting "where it would have been" would not satisfy that. Not one iota of controversy. From the sound of it the shooter "engaged" the second flyer, only needed to fire one more round, and since flyer was on the ground, shot at stationary target, only four rounds needed to be fired. 3 hours ago, Purly SASS # 57438 said: Shotgun instructions are for 4 + shots. Targets are popper targets. Shooter is to shoot a knockdown that throws a clay into the air. Two targets. Any missed birds can be made up on stationary target. Shooter knockdowns first popper and hits bird. Then shoots second knockdown but next shot foes not fire. Shooter reloads two shells and shoots stationary target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 So the shooter shot 5 times and only had to shoot 4 to satisfy the shooting description. I could see that going either way, I guess, but it fits the interpretation of "engaged" in the Glossary of Terms in the Shooter's Handbook. Engaged – attempting to fire a round at the target. Back the timer up one shot and record the time. Case closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 12 minutes ago, Three Foot Johnson said: So the shooter shot 5 times and only had to shoot 4 to satisfy the shooting description. I could see that going either way, I guess, but it fits the interpretation of "engaged" in the Glossary of Terms in the Shooter's Handbook. Engaged – attempting to fire a round at the target. Back the timer up one shot and record the time. Case closed. Actually, engaging a target doesn't satisfy the requirement to FIRE 4+ rounds. So the reload and firing the 4th round still needs to happen. "Engaging" the target only gets one so far... i.e. cannot be accused of unsportsmanlike conduct by willfully failing to engage targets. No provision in the rules to back up the timer or otherwise decrease the time shown on the clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purly SASS # 57438 Posted November 1, 2020 Author Share Posted November 1, 2020 3 hours ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said: Was there controversy about the call? Seems like an obvious no call. No controversy. Just wondering if you have to fire at the died or where it was before going to a make up target for a miss. If you don't shoot at a target it's a miss. Engaging is not hitting. Suppose I shot both knockdown targets before I attempted to hit the fliers and just shot the two makeup targets because both fliers hit the ground before I could reload the shotgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purly SASS # 57438 Posted November 1, 2020 Author Share Posted November 1, 2020 2 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said: I don't recall if he shot two at the makeup or just one. I'm pretty sure he fired a total of 4 shotgun, but I'll defer to Purly on that. Admittedly I wasn't as steady as usual having picked up a MDQ on the previous stage. I think the right call was made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 The shooter did attempt to shoot the second pop up target. Then after reloading a second time fired at the makeup plate. In your scenario if a shooter shot both knockdown activators first, reloaded and with no attempt to hit the popups and immediately shot the makeup plate twice that would be a problem. It would take most shooters a little more time to hit the popup target then a bigger plate with less chance of a miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 17 minutes ago, Purly SASS # 57438 said: Suppose I shot both knockdown targets before I attempted to hit the fliers and just shot the two makeup targets because both fliers hit the ground before I could reload the shotgun. SOG in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purly SASS # 57438 Posted November 1, 2020 Author Share Posted November 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Yusta B. said: SOG in my book. That would be a fair call if I thought it was intentional to gain an advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 5 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said: I don't recall if he shot two at the makeup or just one. I'm pretty sure he fired a total of 4 shotgun, but I'll defer to Purly on that. Admittedly I wasn't as steady as usual having picked up a MDQ on the previous stage. Evil Bob, I think if ole CBB got a MDQ he got all the love he wuz due! Kajun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 14 minutes ago, Krazy Kajun said: Evil Bob, I think if ole CBB got a MDQ he got all the love he wuz due! Kajun It's good to have friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 2 hours ago, Purly SASS # 57438 said: No controversy. Just wondering if you have to fire at the died or where it was before going to a make up target for a miss. If you don't shoot at a target it's a miss. Engaging is not hitting. Suppose I shot both knockdown targets before I attempted to hit the fliers and just shot the two makeup targets because both fliers hit the ground before I could reload the shotgun. Purly, I did that once at Cleveland. I dropped both poppers (one on each side of the berm) and then grabbed 2 more shells and was able to get both shots off while the fliers were still airborne. To my dismay, I missed both of them. BUT..... I did get those 2 shots off while both birds were in the air. NO, the SG was not preloaded... ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 Widder. That sounds like the two were spread pretty far apart. I've seen the very good shotgunners drop the two activators reload and get both in the air but not necessarily with them spread apart that far. I'm sure you've had success when they are closer together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kloehr Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 6 hours ago, Three Foot Johnson said: So the shooter shot 5 times and only had to shoot 4 to satisfy the shooting description. I could see that going either way, I guess, but it fits the interpretation of "engaged" in the Glossary of Terms in the Shooter's Handbook. Engaged – attempting to fire a round at the target. Back the timer up one shot and record the time. Case closed. Back up the timer? The shooter took the shot. That was the shooters last shot in the course of fire. It counts. But other than that, agree case closed, no call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 It's unclear if he shot 4 or 5. If he shot 5, and 4 was all he needed to shoot, go back and record his time at the 24th shot instead of the 25th. Or the 25th - either way, it doesn't change what I'm having for dinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 5 hours ago, Purly SASS # 57438 said: Suppose I shot both knockdown targets before I attempted to hit the fliers and just shot the two makeup targets because both fliers hit the ground before I could reload the shotgun. Then you would have earned a penalty for failing to engage the flyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purly SASS # 57438 Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 That engage thing can get tricky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purly SASS # 57438 Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 15 minutes ago, Three Foot Johnson said: It's unclear if he shot 4 or 5. If he shot 5, and 4 was all he needed to shoot, go back and record his time at the 24th shot instead of the 25th. Or the 25th - either way, it doesn't change what I'm having for dinner. Only shot 4. 1. Knockdown. 2 flyer. 3 Knockdown. 4 makeup target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Purly SASS # 57438 said: Only shot 4. 1. Knockdown. 2 flyer. 3 Knockdown. 4 makeup target. In that case, 1 miss (4th shot missed the bird...needed a 5th shot on the makeup to negate that miss). Quote Any missed birds can be made up on stationary target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Purly was right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 TN Williams sez stuff like this is exactly what happens when he ain't at a match to help keep folks straighten out. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 So in order to engage the flyer you have to fire a shot before or after it hits the ground. You have to miss, then makeup. Saying PEW doesn't count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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