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Powder burn rate question re. C45S loads


Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580

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Howdy! I have a question regarding what I can use for C45S loads in the event that I run out of my primary powder...

 

I'm currently using 3.9 grains of Clays behind a 160 grain bullet in C45S for my pistol loads. They're easy on my arthritis and my Bisleys shoot them where I want them to go (most of the time :D ). I probably have enough Clays to last into the next century but in the event that I do run out, I'm wondering about substituting 700-x, which I have a lot more of. According to the Hodgdon burn chart, 700-x is only two spots slower than Clays. So what influence would such placing have on loading 700-x instead? Would I be able to use essentially the same powder charge or would I need to change it?

 

I've been  reloading for a long time, but with no published loads for C45S I'm kind of just feeling my way along...

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Charlie,

For similar load performance, you can find load data for the .45 Auto Rim and .45 ACP and see what powders will

give you what you are looking for, especially the light to moderate load info.

 

If you don't find any data for the 160 grainers, send me an email and I might have some good data to send you back.

 

 

..........Widder  (widder1894@icloud.com)

 

 

 

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I looked up 45 ACP loads using 160 grain bullets and Clays and 700-x. 700-x pressures are slightly lower with similar velocities and slightly higher powder charge. It looks like I should be able to use the 700-x with no worries...

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I've done some load development for C45S using a few different powders.  Clays, Clay Dot, 700x and Red Dot all do quite well. Clay Dot, loaded with identical charge by weight, provided the most energy, and Red Dot the lowest velocity standard deviation.  They all run well with similar powder charges in the 3 to 3.5g range with 160g bullet.  I found 700x and Clays virtually interchangeable.  I load all my .38spl match ammo with 700x and all my .45C and C45S with Red Dot.  

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I'm sure I have a PDF of suggested loads from AJ's old web page, or Dakota Skipper maybe... but I can't find it. As above, .45 AR data will work fine. Even .44 Russian data is probably close enough. We're not loading on the ragged edge here. ;)

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i think you will find the so much similar as to not realize the difference - follow the charts , but i use ' Clays, Clay Dot, 700x and Red Dot' loaded with near identical charge by weight simply because we are loading so low on the charts and i use all interchangebly in the shotgun loads 

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I was loading about 4.2 grs. Of Clay-Dot but was having inconsistent ignition ,especially in cold weather.

I gradually worked up to 4.6 grs.,and all is working well.

I tried Clays,Unique andW231 ,but settled on Clay-Dot.

Of course  ,YMMV.

Choctaw Jack 

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1 hour ago, Choctaw Jack said:

I was loading about 4.2 grs. Of Clay-Dot but was having inconsistent ignition ,especially in cold weather.

I gradually worked up to 4.6 grs.,and all is working well.

I tried Clays,Unique andW231 ,but settled on Clay-Dot.

Of course  ,YMMV.

Choctaw Jack 

 

Me, too.  I found Red Dot much more consistent without increasing charge weight.  Of course, lots of factors, primer, crimp, gun, etc. so YMMV. 

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Thanks, folks. After looking at the burn rate chart I kind of suspected that I would find out what y'all have told me. I'm glad you could corroborate my guesses for me!

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20 hours ago, John Boy said:

Thanks Abe. Never owned any so the abbreviation was foreign to me

 

JB, it's basically a 45colt cut in half.  I use them in my conversions for my Old Armies.

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22 minutes ago, John Boy said:

Cemetery, guess I am old fashioned ... just a down load with standard 45 Colt brass in my 58 conversions 

 

I'll be sippin' an old fashioned after supper tonight.

 

I was thinking of downloading 45colt, but I read about erratic ignition in a few places, so I bought some brass with some leftover folding money one week.

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Jack passed the rights for the Barnstormer bullet mold to me when I purchased the mold from him. 

Barnstormer Bullet. .452, hollow base, truncated cone bullet for the 45cs. Case. It works on the Minnie ball principle and reduces blowby in light loaded 45cs cases. There are many threads on this forum that discuss this bullet. If you are interested. Send me a PM or email. Foxavn@bellsouth.net.

 

Shootin Fox

OK Territorial Marshall

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On 11/1/2020 at 4:38 PM, SHOOTIN FOX said:

Jack passed the rights for the Barnstormer bullet mold to me when I purchased the mold from him. 

Barnstormer Bullet. .452, hollow base, truncated cone bullet for the 45cs. Case. It works on the Minnie ball principle and reduces blowby in light loaded 45cs cases. There are many threads on this forum that discuss this bullet. If you are interested. Send me a PM or email. Foxavn@bellsouth.net.

 

Shootin Fox

OK Territorial Marshall

Thanks! I'll keep you in mind!

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OP,
Clays is your best bet for the lowest recoil.

The Hodgdon load guide shows 3.9 Clays as the maximum load for a 45ACP load.
The lowest recoil of all the Hodgdon loads is 3.4 grains of Clays, 833 fps, 17,100 psi, BHN=13.4

The Hodgdon load is for the 160 grain Barnes TAC-XP which is not allowed for SASS.
IMO, it is safe to assume the same relative performance between the Hodgdon load powders, when using a cast bullet.

I looked at other loads with a 180 grain cast bullet... same situation.
The Clays produces the lowest recoil, followed very closely by 700-X and IMR Red

Trail Boss is even less recoil, but I did not find a TB load for 160 grain bullets.

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18 hours ago, bgavin said:

OP,
Clays is your best bet for the lowest recoil.

 

As I said, I'm currently using Clays, but my supply is dwindling but I've got scads of 700-x which is why I thought about trying that. I did develop a load using Trail Boss but I had trouble with load consistency. And I can get 700-x cheaper. Plus, as I said, I've got lots of that.

 

Thanks!

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I used to use 700-X for my C45S loads, until I streamlined down to WST for all my cowboy and WB ammo.

 

700-X works very fine!  WST leaves slightly less fouling on the brass.

 

Good luck, GJ

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700-X is a very interesting powder for me.

Clays has a more fluffy VMD, but the minimum load of 700-X fills a higher percentage of the case than does Clays.
Minimum 700-X has a higher velocity and recoil than minimum Clays, which is why I chose Clays over 700-X.

Both Clays and 700-X have published loads for 12-gauge, 3/4 oz minimum loads.
700-X offers the lowest recoil.

 

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