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The .38 WCF plays nicely with smokeless as well , Even out past 300 yards in my Uberti Low Wall with a 30 inch barrel and next to no recoil ...

The Ladies just love that little rifle and hang around waiting their turn to ring steel ....

 

Jabez Cowboy

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14 minutes ago, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said:

The .38 WCF plays nicely with smokeless as well , Even out past 300 yards in my Uberti Low Wall with a 30 inch barrel and next to no recoil ...

The Ladies just love that little rifle and hang around waiting their turn to ring steel ....

 

Jabez Cowboy

I have 4 Colts in .357, two rifles in .357 and .38, at this stage I'm not about to be changing calibers. 

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10 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I've never had feed problems in a 73 with .45 or .44-40 but since I went to .38's I've had feed problems intermittently with my Uberti 73.

 

My question is the 1866 chambered in .38 spl better than the 73? In my mind it seems like it would feed better.

 

I reload my .38's to 1.45 length and my 73 works except once in a while it has a little "hitch" seems like the round doesn't chamber smoothly. Never had that problem in my 66!

What say ya'll???

 

Rye, what kind of feeding problems?

 

Ammo won't go into the chamber? Check your crimps, and chamber mouth, the chamber lips should have a slight roundness to them to help smooth feeding.

 

Is it when trying to close the lever? Review OAL of ammo, and there should be a ramp type cut into the frame right about the backstop on the loading gate.  Sometimes 38s, and get hung up there a bit and cause a hiccup when cycling the action.

 

Bottom lip on the bolt proper length and such?

 

Or maybe you just got Gremlins, of which only real black can scare away.

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9 minutes ago, Cemetery said:

 

Rye, what kind of feeding problems?

 

Ammo won't go into the chamber? Check your crimps, and chamber mouth, the chamber lips should have a slight roundness to them to help smooth feeding.

 

Is it when trying to close the lever? Review OAL of ammo, and there should be a ramp type cut into the frame right about the backstop on the loading gate.  Sometimes 38s, and get hung up there a bit and cause a hiccup when cycling the action.

 

Bottom lip on the bolt proper length and such?

 

Or maybe you just got Gremlins, of which only real black can scare away.

It only happens intermittently, it happens when going into the chamber. My point is it doesn’t happen with my 66 which is a .38. On the 73 it only happens now and then like maybe 2 out of 10 but not always!

Edited by Rye Miles #13621

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4 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

It only happens intermittently, it happens when going into the chamber. My point is it doesn’t happen with my 66 which is a .38. On the 73 it only happens now and then like maybe 2 out of 10 but not always!

 

Have you compared the chamber mouths them side by side?  Might be something with chamber then.

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12 minutes ago, Cemetery said:

 

Have you compared the chamber mouths them side by side?  Might be something with chamber then.

I have not, I will though. Thanks

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My 73 is pretty new. Had a bit of a problem finishing chambering a round. The extractor is pretty stiff and was holding the bolt a smidge high causing the bottom bolt tab to barely jam against the back of the case rim. I took a fine stone to the top corner of the tab to round it a tiny bit. Solved my problem. YMMV

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1.46 worked in my first 73

1.44-1.45 didn’t Feed well 
 

I don’t crimp in the groove, I load with groove showing 

 

 

3GC 

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8 hours ago, Three Gun Cole said:

1.46 worked in my first 73

1.44-1.45 didn’t Feed well 
 

I don’t crimp in the groove, I load with groove showing 

 

 

3GC 

The weird thing is this rifle worked fine with 1.45 OAL for about a year. Last year it started acting up and I tried a longer length but it still acts up. 

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16 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I have one it doesn't make any difference!:o

Originally when I got it my cartridges were jamming on the carrier. Come to find out the I had a mortise problem behind the carrier, and the cartridge rim was catching on it. I took it in to my local gunsmith, who specializes in cowboy action guns, and he ground the sharp edge of the mortise to an angle. Along with that he told me about the one size fits all Uberti magazine tubes and recommended a liner to decrease the diameter especially since it was a 32-20. I fix the mortise issue and added a liner and I haven't had a problem with the rifle since.

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1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

The weird thing is this rifle worked fine with 1.45 OAL for about a year. Last year it started acting up and I tried a longer length but it still acts up. 

 

Based on that statement alone I would hazard that something is worn or out of adjustment. You need a good toggle link gunsmith to take a look at your rifle.

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9 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Based on that statement alone I would hazard that something is worn or out of adjustment. You need a good toggle link gunsmith to take a look at your rifle.

Yep, that's what I'll have to do. I'm at a dead end here! :(

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13 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Yep, that's what I'll have to do. I'm at a dead end here! :(

 

How far are you from Lassiter?

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9 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

How far are you from Lassiter?

About 4 hours but  Lassiter takes way too long, he'll have it for 3-4 months!

I know a good gunsmith that's closer and I'm probably going to bring it this Saturday to the shoot, he'll be there.

 

Thanks for your concern

Rye

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Quote

rifle worked fine with 1.45 OAL for about a year. Last year it started acting up

 

Now that you shared THAT vital piece of info, it surely sounds like the lifter timing is off.  Bent lever, bent lifter arm, worn lifter, weak lifter spring, all can contribute to this kind of problem.  If you have had an out of battery discharge right before rifle started acting up, then a check for bent parts is overdue.

 

 

Quote

Lassiter takes way too long, he'll have it for 3-4 months!

 

THAT has NOT been my experience with Lassiter's turn-around on a gun repair for something actively being used by a good shooter!  I know of several gun problems fixed in very short time.

 

 

Good luck, GJ

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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20 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

 

Now that you shared THAT vital piece of info, it surely sounds like the lifter timing is off.  Bent lever, bent lifter arm, worn lifter, weak lifter spring, all can contribute to this kind of problem.  If you have had an out of battery discharge right before rifle started acting up, then a check for bent parts is overdue.

 

 

 

THAT has NOT been my experience with Lassiter's turn-around on a gun repair for something actively being used by a good shooter!  I know of several gun problems fixed in very short time.

 

 

Good luck, GJ

 I do have a good gunsmith that is a lot closer and I can drive to pick it up in less than 2 hours. Lassiter is about 4 ours!

 

I agree that it's probably the lifter timing or weak springs. Thanks for your input!;)

 

Rye

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Rye-Try 1.510 to 1.515 with any bullet between 105 and 147 and feel free to call me.  We have been shooting 105  and 125 in 5 different 73's.  Only one of them was ok with 1.46.  The rest will not shoot smoothly.  I know there are a no. of great shooters who shoot shorter rds. but this length has been dependable for us.   Never felt the need for change.

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5 hours ago, Kirk James said:

Rye-Try 1.510 to 1.515 with any bullet between 105 and 147 and feel free to call me.  We have been shooting 105  and 125 in 5 different 73's.  Only one of them was ok with 1.46.  The rest will not shoot smoothly.  I know there are a no. of great shooters who shoot shorter rds. but this length has been dependable for us.   Never felt the need for change.

I've tried a longer OAL, did the same thing! It's gotta be the timing or something else internal. 

 

My 66 feeds anything!!

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Rye, with your past history I would think your next move should be to 32s.

 

On your way down to 22s.

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I have Fixed Guns for a Shooter in the middle of a shoot , even a number of times at Sass Canadian Nationals over the years ...

As well as Provincial Championship matches... ( Wispier mode,,, a lot of other smiths do the same ) 

 

Jabez Cowboy

 

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11 hours ago, Thunder Creek Kid said:

Rye, with your past history I would think your next move should be to 32s.

 

On your way down to 22s.

I was thinking I'd use Seamus recipe for .45 Special, .22's are a little too hot!:P

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On 10/21/2020 at 9:59 AM, Rye Miles #13621 said:

 

 

My question is the 1866 chambered in .38 spl better than the 73? In my mind it seems like it would feed better.

 

 

So after all the great advice and tips which I do appreciate, my original question stands unanswered.

Does the 66 feed better with .38's than the 73's in .357?<_<

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3 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Does the 66 feed better with .38's than the 73'

Only if you think it does......

 

 

I've tuned up both types of toggle rifles for a top notch shooter before.  Set them up to be almost the same feel.  Both could run as fast or faster than that top shooter was able to run them in matches.

 

Most of the difference comes from the 66 having a stock with more drop at the butt.   So it fits a bigger shooter who stands upright a little better than a 73 does.  And the 73 is a little more protection against an OOB.

 

Folks shooting .357s in a a 73 are not doing themselves any favor.  Shoot .38s with a long-enough nose once that rifle is fixed.

 

Good luck, GJ

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My Mikuro Winchester '73 is .357 and it shoots .38 PPU 158gr LFN, Cowboy Choice 125gr LFP and Scarlett Darlin's .125gr Hytec coated TC rounds with equal ease. I've yet to shoot .357 Magnum length cartridges through it.

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UPDATE: I gave my 73 to the gunsmith (who is also a shooter). He tried it for one stage and it was acting up for him. He said it was worse than he thought! He'll do a good job on it I'm sure. In the meantime I have my trusty ol' 66!;)

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On 10/23/2020 at 8:47 AM, Rye Miles #13621 said:

So after all the great advice and tips which I do appreciate, my original question stands unanswered.

Does the 66 feed better with .38's than the 73's in .357?<_<

No. The internals are the same. It's all about how the rifle is setup. If you are shooting a stock rifle maybe........but my gut tells me it's not stock. Or is it? Once you drop a kit in (and/or an aftermarket carrier block) everything changes and it's all about proper setup more than the cartridge length. You just have issues in the basement around 1.42. The only difference in the rifles is the candy coating..........lol. 

 

From what another person on this thread said it even sounds like the barrels are the same.........if his 66 will chamber a 357 (I never tired) so it's probably just stamped 38. I always heard it was the brass frame that was the reason they wouldn't rate them for magnum loads...too soft. I do know both my 66's in 44 & 38 were specials.......no 66's in magnum's I know of.  Unless maybe the OLD ones that had different internals and lever safeties. 

 

Buying a different rifle isn't going to help....setting it up correct will make either run fantastic.  Good luck

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I have a '66 and a '73, 38 Spl and 357 Mag. 

 

Most of what I've experienced has been covered in the above posts, may take a bit to sort out the wheat from the chaff. 

 

I started with the '66, and it did take a bit of learning. As stated above, the shape and position of the metal is important to feeding. One big difference between the '66 and the '73 is the loading ladle. The  feeding in the '66 can be fine tuned with some adjustment to the tab on the ladle, or put another way, if the tab gets bent or mutilated, it can effect feeding. 

 

I have the trapper version of the '66, with a 16" barrel. In order to have the magazine capable of holding 10 rounds instead of the rated 9 calls for a bit of fiddling with OAL. I settled on 1.50" as the best compromise. I can run shorter, but as stated above, it does require a bit more effort to push the stack of cartridges back into the tube. I snipped a few coils off the spring to help with that.

 

In your case you are past all those issues before you get the "hitch". You have pushed the stack and you have a cartridge sitting in the carrier ready to be pushed home. 

 

The 38 Spl/357 Mag is somewhat handicapped because it is small. IOW, you are pushing a cartridge into a smaller hole (chamber). Your cartridge is smaller but bullet shape and how streamlined the cartridge is becomes a bit more of a factor. Certainly a 44-40 is more forgiving in this area. 

 

What I did was use a TC (Truncated Cone) bullet very similar in shape to a typical 9mm 147 gr bullet. I set the OAL to 1.5" and crimp solidly into the body of the bullet. "They" say this will negatively affect accuracy, but I've not noticed that, even out to 250 yards. My chamber on my '66 is loose, I would say near or at max, it feeds smoother than my '73 with it's tighter chamber. My '66 will tolerate a SWC bullet better than my '73 will. 

 

I did assume that the carrier has been timed in your '73, this does come into play, as the carrier guides the cartridge into the chamber. The rifle design seems to be better suited to rimless cartridges, just saying. You may want to try moving the carrier up or down a bit to see if that is contributing to your "hitch". A quick check on timing is to see if the bottom of the carrier is flush with the action when the lever is closed/bolt is in battery. This will vary, but most seem to be nearly flush. If you install a short stroke kit, you get to fine tune the timing. BTW, I found that process to be rather tedious.

 

In closing I'll post a picture of my ammo. I use it in my '66 and '73. It also works well in my hipguns, but I use a WC in those, as that load shoots to the sights in my guns. 

 

tnNLR0S.jpg

 

BB

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18 minutes ago, "Big Boston" said:

I have a '66 and a '73, 38 Spl and 357 Mag. 

 

Most of what I've experienced has been covered in the above posts, may take a bit to sort out the wheat from the chaff. 

 

I started with the '66, and it did take a bit of learning. As stated above, the shape and position of the metal is important to feeding. One big difference between the '66 and the '73 is the loading ladle. The  feeding in the '66 can be fine tuned with some adjustment to the tab on the ladle, or put another way, if the tab gets bent or mutilated, it can effect feeding. 

 

I have the trapper version of the '66, with a 16" barrel. In order to have the magazine capable of holding 10 rounds instead of the rated 9 calls for a bit of fiddling with OAL. I settled on 1.50" as the best compromise. I can run shorter, but as stated above, it does require a bit more effort to push the stack of cartridges back into the tube. I snipped a few coils off the spring to help with that.

 

In your case you are past all those issues before you get the "hitch". You have pushed the stack and you have a cartridge sitting in the carrier ready to be pushed home. 

 

The 38 Spl/357 Mag is somewhat handicapped because it is small. IOW, you are pushing a cartridge into a smaller hole (chamber). Your cartridge is smaller but bullet shape and how streamlined the cartridge is becomes a bit more of a factor. Certainly a 44-40 is more forgiving in this area. 

 

What I did was use a TC (Truncated Cone) bullet very similar in shape to a typical 9mm 147 gr bullet. I set the OAL to 1.5" and crimp solidly into the body of the bullet. "They" say this will negatively affect accuracy, but I've not noticed that, even out to 250 yards. My chamber on my '66 is loose, I would say near or at max, it feeds smoother than my '73 with it's tighter chamber. My '66 will tolerate a SWC bullet better than my '73 will. 

 

I did assume that the carrier has been timed in your '73, this does come into play, as the carrier guides the cartridge into the chamber. The rifle design seems to be better suited to rimless cartridges, just saying. You may want to try moving the carrier up or down a bit to see if that is contributing to your "hitch". A quick check on timing is to see if the bottom of the carrier is flush with the action when the lever is closed/bolt is in battery. This will vary, but most seem to be nearly flush. If you install a short stroke kit, you get to fine tune the timing. BTW, I found that process to be rather tedious.

 

In closing I'll post a picture of my ammo. I use it in my '66 and '73. It also works well in my hipguns, but I use a WC in those, as that load shoots to the sights in my guns. 

 

tnNLR0S.jpg

 

BB

Thanks but it's in my gunsmith's hands now. I'm confident that he'll find what's wrong!

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On 10/21/2020 at 11:13 AM, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I do have a magazine tube sleeve and I also use 125 gr tcfp at 1.45 length. I don’t have an aftermarket carrier its the original carrier. My 66 works just fine this 73 is awful fussy. I’m about ready to sell it at a good price just to be done with it. I’m thinking to get another 66. 
Thanks guys!

if you want to get rid of your 73, I'd trade you for my Ruger 77/357, it's nice for hunting in straight walled pistol cartridge states I've been told.

 

 

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