75 years ago

[Okiepan]

August 6 1945 ( Hiroshima)

The US dropped the first of 02 atomic bombs thus starting the ending of  WW2 in the pacific theatre ,  the second on August 9th , 15 Days later the Empire of Japan surrendered to the Allies.

[Subdeacon Joe]

The local rag ran an editorial about it today saying we started the "Atomic Age" with it.  Ignoring the 2 Dec. 1942 Chicago Pile 1 first sustained chain reaction, and the 16 July 1945 Trinity Test.  

 

Also blathered about our "moral imperative" to lead the world in nuclear disarmament.

Idiots.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

11 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

The local rag ran an editorial about it today saying we started the "Atomic Age" with it.  Ignoring the 2 Dec. 1942 Chicago Pile 1 first sustained chain reaction, and the 16 July 1945 Trinity Test.  

 

Also blathered about our "moral imperative" to lead the world in nuclear disarmament.

Idiots.

Opinions are like A554073s, everybody has one.

[Subdeacon Joe]

5 minutes ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

Opinions are like A554073s, everybody has one.

 

Some seem to have two or three.

[Henry T Harrison]

I’m truly sorry that the US dropped those two bombs

.

.

.

It should have been two hundred those islands should still be uninhabitable 

[Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474]

The Father of one of my buyers would have agreed with you.

He was in Hong Kong with the Winnipeg Rifles and spent 4 1/2 years as a POW, enduring brutal forced labour.

What really made even more difficult for him was that he was of Chinese descent.

Lived into his 80's but would not even get into a Japanese made car. 

[Utah Bob #35998]

It was a terrible thing.

 

[Subdeacon Joe]

31 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

It was a terrible thing.

 

 

Indeed it was . As terrible as the fire bomb raids of other cities. 

[Henry T Harrison]

They had the opportunity to surrender at any time. 
The Japanese were nothing but cruel they got great pleasure out of torture and rape they didn’t get near what they deserved 

[Utah Bob #35998]

Just now, Henry T Harrison said:

They had the opportunity to surrender at any time. 
The Japanese were nothing but cruel they got great pleasure out of torture and rape they didn’t get near what they deserved 

It was a necessary thing. But still terrible.

 

[Tascosa, SASS# 24838]

53 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

It was a terrible thing.

 

I agree UB, but I think you know sometimes we have to do terrible things to terrible people.

[Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474]

I don't blame the people themselves, rather the government and an education system that promoted the ideals.

The people themselves were desensitized and taught what they were doing was somehow "Normal" and part of their "Right and Destiny".

[Utah Bob #35998]

2 minutes ago, Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 said:

I don't blame the people themselves, rather the government and an education system that promoted the ideals.

The people themselves were desensitized and taught what they were doing was somehow "Normal" and part of their "Right and Destiny".

Their cultural history was one of blind obedience. A feudal society until the 20th century. The Emperor was worshipped as a god and sacrificing your life for him was considered a high honor.  Unfortunately, the only way to end it without millions more dying, was the way it was done. A terrible way indeed. War is indeed, Hell.

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

We can all sit back and look at this through filtered glasses. Not unlike those who are now applying todays culture to the culture of slavery and a male lead world.

War should be avoided at every opportunity.

From what I read the two bombs ending the war saved 100,000's of lives, American. And another year or 2 of war.

Their Leadership was to blame. The Emperor and the commanders could not accept the fact that they were going to loose.

And finally the number of Japanese civilians killed from those two bombs doesn't come close to the number of civilian and captured military deaths caused by torture, rape, starvation, and just plain blowing stuff up in the name of the Emperor and his glory.

In my mind we should have dropped a few more.

[Trailrider #896]

I just heard the Fox News anchor recalling the 75th anniversary of Hiroshima, saying, "It ended the war!"  In fact, IT DID NOT!  It is open to debate whether the bombing of Nagasaki "ended the war".  The Japanese militarists were almost all for battling on.  Only when Emperor Hirohito decided that enough was enough (and the threat of further such attacks was warned), did he recorded a message to the Japanese people that continued resistance would lead to the destruction of Japan.  Even then, some of the militarists were talking about an overthrow of the Emperor.  Fortunately, the tape (wire?) recording was successfully taken to the radio station, and played for the Japanese people.

 

Was it necessary? President Truman thought so, and ordered the bombings.  The forecast allied casualties was around one-million, about 25-30 percent of which would have been American KIA's!  The Japanese were training the civilian population to resist with sharpened bamboo spears if no other weapon was available. In addition, the Japanese Air and Naval forces had hundreds to thousands of planes available for kamikaze attacks on our fleet and troops.  They also had stockpiles of chemical weapons.  The Japanese had their own nuclear weapons program in progress.  How far along they were in creating either a "dirty" radiological weapon or a full yield bomb, is had to say.  They had transferred their research to the Chosen Reservoir in Korea to get away from our bombing, as well as for the hydroelectric capability there.  When the first bomb went off, the head of their program knew exactly what it was!  Also, when Germany surrendered, Adm. Doenitz ordered all his submarines to surface and surrender to any allied ship.  Ironically, IIRC, the sub U-235 was carrying enriched uranium and a disassembled Me-262 jet fighter!

 

Nuclear war is unthinkable.  Many people would like to see total nuclear disarmament.  I would agree....IF AND ONLY IF,  we can get Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, India, Pakistan, and any number of potential terrorists to agree!  Until that impossible scenario were to occur, the capabilities of our Strategic Command (including Air Force Global Strike Command, Fleet Ballistic Missiles and others) hopefully the way to keep everybody's hands off the keys! 

[Utah Bob #35998]

2 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

We can all sit back and look at this through filtered glasses. Not unlike those who are now applying todays culture to the culture of slavery and a male lead world.

War should be avoided at every opportunity.

From what I read the two bombs ending the war saved 100,000's of lives, American. And another year or 2 of war.

Their Leadership was to blame. The Emperor and the commanders could not accept the fact that they were going to loose.

And finally the number of Japanese civilians killed from those two bombs doesn't come close to the number of civilian and captured military deaths caused by torture, rape, starvation, and just plain blowing stuff up in the name of the Emperor and his glory.

In my mind we should have dropped a few more.

Not arguing the necessity of it. Never said it was unjustified.
And looking at it with filtered glasses. I never do that with history. Folks who do are not historians.
Just said it was terrible. And given the research I’ve done and number of books I've read on the subject over the years, I stand by that.

I don’t know how and decent human being can look at it and say it wasn’t. 

[Utah Bob #35998]

1 minute ago, Trailrider #896 said:

Nuclear war is unthinkable.  Many people would like to see total nuclear disarmament.  I would agree....IF AND ONLY IF,  we can get Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, India, Pakistan, and any number of potential terrorists to agree!  Until that impossible scenario were to occur, the capabilities of our Strategic Command (including Air Force Global Strike Command, Fleet Ballistic Missiles and others) hopefully the way to keep everybody's hands off the keys! 

 Exactly! Pandora’s Box can’t be closed.

 

[Kid Rich]

1 hour ago, Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 said:

I don't blame the people themselves, rather the government and an education system that promoted the ideals.

The people themselves were desensitized and taught what they were doing was somehow "Normal" and part of their "Right and Destiny".

In todays world does that sound familiar? History repeats itself for those who don't learn from it.

kR

[Henry T Harrison]

2 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

It was a necessary thing. But still terrible.

 

The cruelty or the rape and torture?

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

"I don’t know how and decent human being can look at it and say it wasn’t". 

Call me an indecent human being then. I'm a more of you get what you gave and then some kind of guy.

[Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474]

30 minutes ago, Kid Rich said:

In todays world does that sound familiar? History repeats itself for those who don't learn from it.

kR

 

 

[Cat Brules]

17 minutes ago, Henry T Harrison said:

The cruelty or the rape and torture?

By who?  I believe that a good definition of War is “Planned Chaos”.

 

The Japanese were led by not so much the Emperor, but by a brutal military without Western moral, ethical, religious, and social values.  Pre-WWII, the US was involved in a brisk trade with Japan, selling them scrap steel, oil, and various other strategic resources, including iron ore, chemicals and finished goods......(Japan ultimately shot it all back at us.)

 

When the US and it’s allies saw that Japan’s brutal invasions into China and other parts of Asia, coupled with China’s alliance with Germany were creating a World threat, the US took control of Japenese assets in the US and elsewhere, where we could, and cut off further trade with Japan, a crippling blow.  Japan’s attack on Pearl Harbor was intended to prevent the US from restricting Japan’s mischief in China and Southeast Asia, including The Philippines.   (See what’s happening with China today??!!)
 

I believe that the atomic bombs dropped on Japan were a necessary step to stop Japan’s suicidal attacks on the US, Asia and the rest of the World, and to save American and Allied lives.  The Germans surrendered a few months prior to Japan, and Japan was foolish not to sue for peace at the same time.  Japan attempted to continue its war efforts, even though virtually every significant resource on the home islands had been consumed.  The result of that were the two atomic bombs.

 

It was us or them, folks.  The US saved Japan from itself.

 

Cat Brules

[Utah Bob #35998]

Wow. We’re being criticized by Russia, Iran, and Venezuela. Imagine that. Another BS article from Newsweek. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/75-years-after-atom-bombs-drop-nations-pan-u-s-for-introducing-nuclear-war/ar-BB17F8Nw?li=BBnb7Kz

[Utah Bob #35998]

3 hours ago, Cat Brules said:

By who?  I believe that a good definition of War is “Planned Chaos”.

 

The Japanese were led by not so much the Emperor, but by a brutal military without Western moral, ethical, religious, and social values.  Pre-WWII, the US was involved in a brisk trade with Japan, selling them scrap steel, oil, and various other strategic resources, including iron ore, chemicals and finished goods......(Japan ultimately shot it all back at us.)

 

When the US and it’s allies saw that Japan’s brutal invasions into China and other parts of Asia, coupled with China’s alliance with Germany were creating a World threat, the US took control of Japenese assets in the US and elsewhere, where we could, and cut off further trade with Japan, a crippling blow.  Japan’s attack on Pearl Harbor was intended to prevent the US from restricting Japan’s mischief in China and Southeast Asia, including The Philippines.   (See what’s happening with China today??!!)
 

I believe that the atomic bombs dropped on Japan were a necessary step to stop Japan’s suicidal attacks on the US, Asia and the rest of the World, and to save American and Allied lives.  The Germans surrendered a few months prior to Japan, and Japan was foolish not to sue for peace at the same time.  Japan attempted to continue its war efforts, even though virtually every significant resource on the home islands had been consumed.  The result of that were the two atomic bombs.

 

It was us or them, folks.  The US saved Japan from itself.

 

Cat Brules

And their brutal military leadership only paid lip service to being loyal to the Emperor. They had their own agenda.

[Utah Bob #35998]

5 hours ago, Henry T Harrison said:

The cruelty or the rape and torture?

Seriously?
I was speaking of The bomb.

[J-BAR #18287]

Opinions vary on Mr. Truman as a President. Some think he was a political hack from Kansas City.  I never met him, but I did know people who knew him after he had retired to Independence, Missouri, and to a person they remarked on his humility.  I’m grateful he had the courage to end the war quickly.

[Utah Bob #35998]

5 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

Opinions vary on Mr. Truman as a President. Some think he was a political hack from Kansas City.  I never met him, but I did know people who knew him after he had retired to Independence, Missouri, and to a person they remarked on his humility.  I’m grateful he had the courage to end the war quickly.

He fired MacArthur. That was a good thing.

[watab kid]

17 hours ago, Okiepan said:

August 6 1945 ( Hiroshima)

The US dropped the first of 02 atomic bombs thus starting the ending of  WW2 in the pacific theatre ,  the second on August 9th , 15 Days later the Empire of Japan surrendered to the Allies.

 

yes , and my father came home from saipan after watching both flights leave from tinnian , along with a lot of american fathers or grandfathers at this point , there are not many that wished to drop them but they ended the war and saved lives on both sides , 

we actually remembered these in our home every year - more so than VJ day as it was such a sobering moment in history , 

some of my fathers friends brought home war brides - i got to know a few really well and even as a younger child i remember , it was looked on as an end to the war first , only in hind sight do we reflect on the long term consequences , what a gift it is to see it 75 years on and be able to ponder it all , 

[Waxahachie Kid #17017 L]

My Dad was in the Army, and his division had just finished fighting in Okinawa.  They were moved to another island to rest, refit, and prepare to invade the main Japanese island.  He told me once that his C.O. came around and told them that they expected a million casualties.  At that point Dad had fought on Leyte, and Okinawa, and he said he figured this time his number was up.  Infantrymen are, more or less, superstitious, and he could not believe he would survive another beach invasion and the fighting that came afterward.  After the two bombs were dropped, Japan eventually surrendered.  He always believed the bombs saved his life, and his division, since they did not have to invade. That was his mindset at the time, based on his own personal experiences that he told me about when I pestered him to tell me about his war experiences. Later, they boarded transport ships, and headed home, by way of Hawaii, and he got back home in January of 1946.  IF what he believed was right, I, my son, my grandson, are alive today, partially because Truman made the decision to drop the bombs, which may have made a difference in the emperor deciding enough was enough.  The debate may go on, for who knows how long. Dad told me the Japanese military did not mostly surrender, even when they knew they could not win, and that he did not see all that many surrender. He told me they mostly fought to the death, rather than surrender...but, that a very few actually did. Perhaps that lesson was one reason the decision was made to drop the bombs. But...I can only go on what Dad told me, based on his perspective as a combat infantryman in the Pacific Theater. I am sure he was not able to see the overall big picture of things, from where he was.       

[Utah Bob #35998]

33 minutes ago, Waxahachie Kid #17017 L said:

My Dad was in the Army, and his division had just finished fighting in Okinawa.  They were moved to another island to rest, refit, and prepare to invade the main Japanese island.  He told me once that his C.O. came around and told them that they expected a million casualties.  At that point Dad had fought on Leyte, and Okinawa, and he said he figured this time his number was up.  Infantrymen are, more or less, superstitious, and he could not believe he would survive another beach invasion and the fighting that came afterward.  After the two bombs were dropped, Japan eventually surrendered.  He always believed the bombs saved his life, and his division, since they did not have to invade. That was his mindset at the time, based on his own personal experiences that he told me about when I pestered him to tell me about his war experiences. Later, they boarded transport ships, and headed home, by way of Hawaii, and he got back home in January of 1946.  IF what he believed was right, I, my son, my grandson, are alive today, partially because Truman made the decision to drop the bombs, which may have made a difference in the emperor deciding enough was enough.  The debate may go on, for who knows how long. Dad told me the Japanese military did not mostly surrender, even when they knew they could not win, and that he did not see all that many surrender. He told me they mostly fought to the death, rather than surrender...but, that a very few actually did. Perhaps that lesson was one reason the decision was made to drop the bombs. But...I can only go on what Dad told me, based on his perspective as a combat infantryman in the Pacific Theater. I am sure he was not able to see the overall big picture of things, from where he was.       

Was he by chance in the 77th Division?

[Waxahachie Kid #17017 L]

No...he was in the 96th Infantry Division, 381st regiment, company H.