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I came across in good condition a 2 1/2 kg [ 5lb -6lb  ] tin of Winchester 442 ball powder..I have used 452 but never heard or can find any details on the 442.

Any help appreciated..............

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Edited by Painted Mohawk SASS 77785

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Found a little on 452AA - nothing on 442. Sorry mate .:(

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Never heard of it my friend. But will try and find.

 

Jackrabbit Joe

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Guessing he means 244   Maybe a "down under" thing       GW

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I found 442 mentioned in a couple of items when I  googled it.  This powder appears to be very old.

There is some information under "Eley's Breech Loading Cartridges ". 

 

Good luck,

BS

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Looking at manuals from the late 60's and early 70's I find no mention of it.  A Winchester manual from 1979 exclusively about their ball powders is also no joy.  If this is the discontinued Winchester powder a friend remembers, cloudy on the exact number, it had some issues with load density and was quickly removed from the market (1980"s ????).  It had been connected with over pressure when loaded in a large cartridge, say the volume of a 45-70, but not specifically that cartridge.  When loaded to create cream puff loads low cartridge volume coupled with light bullets some people had experienced explosive results.  This is NOT a proven result but rather the remembrance of a very experienced and successful experimenter with loads and powder.  No information on burn rate but if memory serves it was a faster powder of the time  70's.  Information might be found in manuals of that era but none that I have that run between 1965 and 1979 didn't look in the newer ones.  Did find however that Lyman, Speer, Pacific manuals of the 60's, 70"s don't show very many Winchester Powders.  Work around it slowly hope you find out something about it without an explosive result.    

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Mohawk -  your asking the question on the wrong forum.  Try asking on Cast Boolits or do a search there ... http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?28-Canister-amp-Surplus-Powder

 

Edited by John Boy
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Win 244 - a new powder much like 231 but with extra additives and more eco-friendly manufacturing process.

 

To quote Powder Valley:

 

"This new Winchester pistol powder has all the latest features for a mid-range, burn
speed, propellant. Winchester 244 BALL Powder Propellant is a WINCLEAN product with
a host of attributes, including reduced copper fouling, clean burning and precise metering.
The versatility of this fine powder can be found in 9mm Luger, 45 Auto, 38 Special and many,
many more pistol cartridges. From plinking rounds to top competitive target loads, 244 is a
Clean winner! "

 

Good luck, GJ

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I came across in good condition a 2 1/2 kg [ 5lb -6lb  ] tin of Winchester 442 ball powder..I have used 452 but never heard or can find any details on the 442.

Any help appreciated..............

Just curious 

does the can have an expiration date on it that might narrow down the time frame to search?

regards

Gateway Kid

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Here is the contact us link for Winchester powders

 

https://wwpowder.com/company/contact-us/

Yes I have asked Winchester

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Win 244 - a new powder much like 231 but with extra additives and more eco-friendly manufacturing process.

 

To quote Powder Valley:

 

"This new Winchester pistol powder has all the latest features for a mid-range, burn
speed, propellant. Winchester 244 BALL Powder Propellant is a WINCLEAN product with
a host of attributes, including reduced copper fouling, clean burning and precise metering.
The versatility of this fine powder can be found in 9mm Luger, 45 Auto, 38 Special and many,
many more pistol cartridges. From plinking rounds to top competitive target loads, 244 is a
Clean winner! "

 

Good luck, GJ

GJ..Are you saying that the 452 may be an improvement at the time of the 442..I was thinking that also .

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I found 442 mentioned in a couple of items when I  googled it.  This powder appears to be very old.

There is some information under "Eley's Breech Loading Cartridges ". 

 

Good luck,

BS

I did find something re this powder related to Eley..but only in relation to hulls & primers.

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Guessing he means 244   Maybe a "down under" thing       GW

No definitely 442..I will post a picture

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Just curious 

does the can have an expiration date on it that might narrow down the time frame to search?

regards

Gateway Kid

I'II recheck..thanks

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With the load data on the can, you can pretty easily interpolate loads by comparing modern loads of equal volume, weight, and velocity. It is obviously a shotgun powder. Making it good for Shotgun and Pistol loads. If it were me, I'd find an equivalent data recipe and reduce the load by 5% and load a few up. Looks like it's close to Red Dot-Clays-Promo, etc.

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Sorry about starting the confusion on 442 and 244.  After digging thru my archives, I found WW first ball powder was introduced in 1960.  1968 they introduced 7 new powders     452AA replaced AA12S and 450LS.  473AA replaced AA20S.   My last idea comes from the label on the can itself.  WW didn't have a paper label over the WW logo and the fact the weight of the contents is listed in kilo's.  Could this have been relabeled for export. The load data on the can in "lite" for 452 AA.    No answers , just more questions       good luck  GW

 

 

 

 

No answers, just more questions       

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Definitely a powder of the late 1960 to 70's era.  Because of the AA Mag Primers called for.  And the label design - clean and on a pure white background.   And it's a can made for metric sales, but for Imperial shot and powder weights.   A real Aussie package.

 

I had not intended the analogy of Winchester simply changing a 4 to a 5 in the powder number.  But there is a strong similarity in those loads to the old 452AA loads I used for trap shooting in the late 1970s.

 

Old Win 452AA data is still around in old pamphlets and shotshell loading books.   I would not trust it for use with 442, but I might ponder it.

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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Thanks for the replies..I'm an avid trap shooter so I will use similar loads to the 452.

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If when you open that can the powder has a strong acidic smell it has started to break down and is no longer safe.

 

I'd be awfully curious if there is anything under that label.

 

Before I did anything I would definitely contact the MFG

 

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Up here in Canada we get Cans of Powder of all sorts with Stick-on Labels , Showing the weight of Powder in KG. and the loads in Grains ....

I used 442 in limited amounts back around 1978 ....  Since it didn't do anything that RED DOT couldn't do and Cost more ....

I used up the 1 pound Can and Called it quits ...

 

Jabez Cowboy

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Up here in Canada we get Cans of Powder of all sorts with Stick-on Labels , Showing the weight of Powder in KG. and the loads in Grains ....

I used 442 in limited amounts back around 1978 ....  Since it didn't do anything that RED DOT couldn't do and Cost more ....

I used up the 1 pound Can and Called it quits ...

 

Jabez Cowboy

Howdy Jabez...Would you happen to have any of the load data for the 12g [ trap ] ?..funny you should mention  Red Dot as I also came across  a  Hercules 8 lb keg  in good condition, plus Geen Dot & Nobel 78 & 80..I really like the old powders !!!!!

Merry Xmas & Happy New Year to ya'..... 

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To tell you the truth, if I couldn't find any solid reloading data on this product, I'd use it for fertilizer or pour it down fire ant hills and light it. Getting a good deal on 5+ lb's of powder (with a stick on data label) isn't worth gun replacement or hospital bills.

 

YMMV

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if I couldn't find any solid reloading data on this product, I'd use it for fertilizer

 

Well, this can has the Winchester loading data (at least for trap type loads) right on it.   That's good data, even if it is 40 years old.  Now, if the powder is still in good condition, a couple of test loads will tell you if the stuff is still safe to load at that data.   Watch the pressure signs, feel the recoil, see if you can develop a trust in it.   Be prudent.  And realize that a couple of kilos of this, if you end up tossing it out, is only about $40 or so "lost profit" on your scrounging.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

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Well, this can has the Winchester loading data (at least for trap type loads) right on it.   That's good data, even if it is 40 years old.  Now, if the powder is still in good condition, a couple of test loads will tell you if the stuff is still safe to load at that data.   Watch the pressure signs, feel the recoil, see if you can develop a trust in it.   Be prudent.  And realize that a couple of kilos of this, if you end up tossing it out, is only about $40 or so "lost profit" on your scrounging.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

 

Joe, I don't know how hard it is to get powder in Australia but I figure guns are pretty hard to get or at least a real pain in the ass to get. These days, anyone can print out a sticker. I wouldn't trust it but that is just my opinion. Chances are that the powder is just fine.....I wouldn't be willing to take the risk.

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Joe, I don't know how hard it is to get powder in Australia but I figure guns are pretty hard to get or at least a real pain in the ass to get. These days, anyone can print out a sticker. I wouldn't trust it but that is just my opinion. Chances are that the powder is just fine.....I wouldn't be willing to take the risk.

Howdy Cypress.....I trust the powder will be ok..the chap who owned it has passed on & he did use a variety of powders for trap shooting, the tin is in good condition & smells sweet, the sticker is no different in style  to the stickers for 452AA that we also purchased here..I have used MANY older powders with success & I'm confident this will be the same, I'd just never heard of 442 which when laid out looks exactly like 452.

As GJ said having load data is a good start ..don't worry I love being above ground so I will certainly be prudent.

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Howdy Cypress.....I trust the powder will be ok..the chap who owned it has passed on & he did use a variety of powders for trap shooting, the tin is in good condition & smells sweet, the sticker is no different in style  to the stickers for 452AA that we also purchased here..I have used MANY older powders with success & I'm confident this will be the same, I'd just never heard of 442 which when laid out looks exactly like 452.

As GJ said having load data is a good start ..don't worry I love being above ground so I will certainly be prudent.

 

I'm not worried Mohawk, just concerned. Based upon your detailed description, the powder is probably fine. I just don't like for anyone, let alone a SASS member, to be possibly injured by something that could be avoided. Good luck and a (belated) Merry Christmas to you and yours.

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