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Cheyenne Culpepper 32827

the role of the TO etc

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the mantra of the RO is "to safely assist the shooter through the course of fire"   

 

IF a big IF, you stand behind the shooter's strong shoulder you can see it ALL, yes ALL!!   you can see all of the shooter's major movements,  you can see what target the shooter is engaging,, you can see his firearms,  yes you can see hits and misses, and edge hits,,  IF IF IF you are in the correct position!!  that is why the TO has the final say in Ps,  the TO is in the best position to see it ALL including the targets... it irks me when I hear, "I can't help or call a P because I was looking at the guns".  

 

Try it next time you run the timer, stand behind the shooter off of his strong side, you can look down the long guns with the shooter, even his hand guns,,,

 

ok, rant over,,,

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All while making sure the timer is picking up shots. 

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I only care about the last shot,, it's the only important one, my strong hand is reserved to act as my "claw" to control the shooter if needed

 

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4 minutes ago, Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 said:

I only care about the last shot,, it's the only important one, my strong hand is reserved to act as my "claw" to control the shooter if needed

 

Yep, so did the timer operator that figured he'd catch my last shot. Too bad my SG decided to crap out and I took two shotgun misses. Dang I'm fast, I had a 13 second stage including two misses. That is not a good practice. I shot the stage again. 

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35 minutes ago, Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 said:

the mantra of the RO is "to safely assist the shooter through the course of fire"   

 

IF a big IF, you stand behind the shooter's strong shoulder you can see it ALL, yes ALL!!   you can see all of the shooter's major movements,  you can see what target the shooter is engaging,, you can see his firearms,  yes you can see hits and misses, and edge hits,,  IF IF IF you are in the correct position!!  that is why the TO has the final say in Ps,  the TO is in the best position to see it ALL including the targets... it irks me when I hear, "I can't help or call a P because I was looking at the guns".  

 

Try it next time you run the timer, stand behind the shooter off of his strong side, you can look down the long guns with the shooter, even his hand guns,,,

 

ok, rant over,,,

Hehehe, good luck sticking right behind SOME peoples' strong side shoulder if it aint a stand and deliver.

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In a perfect world, that is true probably most of the time. But some stages definitely make it impossible and some shooters as well. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 said:

the mantra of the RO is "to safely assist the shooter through the course of fire"   

 

IF a big IF, you stand behind the shooter's strong shoulder you can see it ALL, yes ALL!!   you can see all of the shooter's major movements,  you can see what target the shooter is engaging,, you can see his firearms,  yes you can see hits and misses, and edge hits,,  IF IF IF you are in the correct position!!  that is why the TO has the final say in Ps,  the TO is in the best position to see it ALL including the targets... it irks me when I hear, "I can't help or call a P because I was looking at the guns".  

 

Try it next time you run the timer, stand behind the shooter off of his strong side, you can look down the long guns with the shooter, even his hand guns,,,

 

ok, rant over,,,

Agree, but you do have to be tall enough to see over the shooter's shoulder.  Doesn't always work out that way with real tall shooters.  Watching from below the gun barrel or around the shooter's arm is harder, but it's still possible to see nearly everything.   I think  it's mostly about positioning yourself before, and planning your movements during.   I think that was your main point, and again I agree.  

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale
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Posted (edited)

yeah, I can't see over everones shoulders, I do the best I can for them,,,  I pick up the shots from the last firearm used,   don't care about the rest so much,,  guess what, if I miss one and then a malfunction, the shooter gets a reshoot,, my bad!   some folks you have to stand much further back,,, it hurts when the stomp the arch of your foot!!  with movement I am already backing out and backing towards the next position all the while keeping an eye on the shooter,

 

the whole gist of this was,,,, don't just watch the firearms, you can do it all,  heck at some shoots in FL I have to spot too,,,it always ain't a perfect world

 

and sometimes during a malfunction I get so wrapped up in the problem I forget where the shooter was, fortunately the spotter usually can help

 

and sometimes, I tag along as best I can,,,  

 

 

 

 

Edited by Cheyenne Culpepper 32827
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Sorry folks but when I RO it's all about safety. I can't do everything involved on a stage and be efficient. My job, as far as I'm concerned, is to operate the timer, watch the shooter for firearm safety issues, count the number of shots fired in each pistol and rifle, watch the loading and unloading of the shotgun, and be prepared to stop the shooter if I have to for any safety reason. I don't watch targets, call hits or misses, or P's. That's what you have 3 spotters for. I don't mind doing the job, I try and do it the best I can. I do, on very rare occasions, have a brain fart and make a mistake now and then. If someone wants a re-shoot because of something I did wrong they will get it, but it is nice to attend a shoot once in a while where I can just help by doing something different.

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The wife and I have tried to "coach" an inexperienced TO as to where he should stand behind the shooter so he can see where the guns are aimed and to not watch the targets.  Even after coaching him he insists on standing off to the side--usually several feet away from the shooter.  I guess our best option is to request someone else to be the TO for us.  Perhaps that will get the message through to him.  And with him several feet away from the shooter there is no way that he can react quickly enough if an unsafe situation occurs.

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36 minutes ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said:

Sorry folks but when I RO it's all about safety. I can't do everything involved on a stage and be efficient. My job, as far as I'm concerned, is to operate the timer, watch the shooter for firearm safety issues, count the number of shots fired in each pistol and rifle, watch the loading and unloading of the shotgun, and be prepared to stop the shooter if I have to for any safety reason. I don't watch targets, call hits or misses, or P's. That's what you have 3 spotters for. I don't mind doing the job, I try and do it the best I can. I do, on very rare occasions, have a brain fart and make a mistake now and then. If someone wants a re-shoot because of something I did wrong they will get it, but it is nice to attend a shoot once in a while where I can just help by doing something different.

It's the T.O.s job to call "P's". 

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12 hours ago, Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 said:

.  Try it next time you run the timer, stand behind the shooter off of his strong side, you can look down the long guns with the shooter, even his hand guns,,,

 

ok, rant over,,,

 

2 hours ago, Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 said:

  with movement I am already backing out and backing towards the next position all the while keeping an eye on the shooter,

the whole gist of this was,,,, don't just watch the firearms, you can do it all,  heck at some shoots in FL I have to spot too,,,it always ain't a perfect world


 

28 minutes ago, Snakebite said:

It's the T.O.s job to call "P's". 

 

Yep, from the correct position you can walk and chew gum, and glance at the timer;). No side arm sliders with the timer please:o, we have shooters that will not start if they can see the TO in their peripheral vision. With movement I try to be a half step out of the way before last shot. And how else can you help the lost shooter if you are not looking where the barrel is pointed for correct target engagement??:huh: All good points, and part of RO I, with a little practice not hard to do. Good Luck:)

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2 hours ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said:

Sorry folks but when I RO it's all about safety. I can't do everything involved on a stage and be efficient. My job, as far as I'm concerned, is to operate the timer, watch the shooter for firearm safety issues, count the number of shots fired in each pistol and rifle, watch the loading and unloading of the shotgun, and be prepared to stop the shooter if I have to for any safety reason. I don't watch targets, call hits or misses, or P's. That's what you have 3 spotters for. I don't mind doing the job, I try and do it the best I can. I do, on very rare occasions, have a brain fart and make a mistake now and then. If someone wants a re-shoot because of something I did wrong they will get it, but it is nice to attend a shoot once in a while where I can just help by doing something different.

and if you stand in the correct position you too can see the targets for correct target engagement.. try it,,,,

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To all of you who focus on the timer getting that LAST shot....... How do you know when its the last 

shot?

 

Have you never considered that maybe the 3rd or 4th shot from a pistol could be the LAST round fired

but you failed to atleast try to get it recorded because you didn't considered it being that last round?

 

How about a broke SG on the 2nd or 3rd round, everything goes South for the shooter, and you're standing

back with the timer hanging down at your side, waiting for their LAST shot on the stage, which 

turns out NOT TO BE the 4th round.    

 

If you're gonna stand there and watch EVERYTHING else, atleast try to focus also that the timer

collects as much as possible.   The shooter deserves it.

 

..........Widder

 

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39 minutes ago, Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 said:

and if you stand in the correct position you too can see the targets for correct target engagement.. try it,,,,

 

Sorry but I can't watch the firearm being fired, count the shots, and watch for squib loads while looking at targets all at the same time. I either count shots or I count misses. I don't do both. Again that is why you have three spotter.....

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1 hour ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said:

 

Sorry but I can't watch the firearm being fired, count the shots, and watch for squib loads while looking at targets all at the same time. I either count shots or I count misses. I don't do both. Again that is why you have three spotter.....

like Snakebite has also said,,, it is the TO's responsibility to call Ps.  try it, you can do it,,   

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For stand and deliver stages standing on the strong side works. But if the shooter moves can you stand close to stop the shooter while not getting in the way when they move to their strong side? Especially fast shooters/movers. If they are going to move I stand on the opposite side of the direction they're going.
We have storefronts that we shoot through windows and doors. NO matter where you stand as the TO you can't always see the targets. I watch the guns, count the shots, watch re-holstering and staging. then if I can watch target and shooting sequence I will. Otherwise its on the spotters.

Ike

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1 hour ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

To all of you who focus on the timer getting that LAST shot....... How do you know when its the last 

shot?

 

Have you never considered that maybe the 3rd or 4th shot from a pistol could be the LAST round fired

but you failed to atleast try to get it recorded because you didn't considered it being that last round?

 

How about a broke SG on the 2nd or 3rd round, everything goes South for the shooter, and you're standing

back with the timer hanging down at your side, waiting for their LAST shot on the stage, which 

turns out NOT TO BE the 4th round.    

 

If you're gonna stand there and watch EVERYTHING else, atleast try to focus also that the timer

collects as much as possible.   The shooter deserves it.

 

..........Widder

 

I don't wait for the last shot, like I said above I don't wait for the last shot,, when the last firearm is being used the timer comes back into play 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said:

 

Sorry but I can't watch the firearm being fired, count the shots, and watch for squib loads while looking at targets all at the same time. I either count shots or I count misses. I don't do both. Again that is why you have three spotter.....

When you take the timer,  you're agreeing to do your best at the WHOLE  job, which includes all that you described, PLUS calling "P"s.    Everybody makes mistakes, but we need to focus ourselves on only the T. O. job, and  try to get it right.  That's one reason I don't like to be a Posse Marshal and also run the timer.  There's just too much to manage on an operating stage.  It's also a good reason to try to hand off the timer after every 6 or 7 shooters.   

 

 Years back,  my boss used to say," Everybody makes mistakes, BUT NOT ON THE JOB".  It put everyone in the shop into a different (more focused) work demeanor.   

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale
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I stand close to the shooters but I do have a couple that flail about :D. You know who you are.

If I get too close, I will impede them and I've also had them hit the timer after the last shot. Oops!

Stay close... not too close. Pay attention to the shooter. If you've done this any amount of time, you can tell who you need to stick like glue on or who you can loosen up a bit. Hold the timer in a way that you can take a peek, if you need to and where it can pick up ALL the shots. 

TRY to do a good job and you'll be fine.

 

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7 hours ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said:

Sorry folks but when I RO it's all about safety. I can't do everything involved on a stage and be efficient. My job, as far as I'm concerned, is to operate the timer, watch the shooter for firearm safety issues, count the number of shots fired in each pistol and rifle, watch the loading and unloading of the shotgun, and be prepared to stop the shooter if I have to for any safety reason. I don't watch targets, call hits or misses, or P's. That's what you have 3 spotters for. I don't mind doing the job, I try and do it the best I can. I do, on very rare occasions, have a brain fart and make a mistake now and then. If someone wants a re-shoot because of something I did wrong they will get it, but it is nice to attend a shoot once in a while where I can just help by doing something different.

Your job is to watch for ps too or how can you help then to safely navigate the course of fire.   Do I look for misses,  no, but I have called p's the spotters missed.  

  When im shooting I ask the To to stand on the opposite side of which im going unless I know them.   I've ran over more than one TO. I feel bad doing it but  when I'm shooting that's what I'm focused on.  Shooting. Im not a big imposing physical guy but I generally get where I'm going faster than people assume. 

  Besides the chance of physical damage to you or the TO, you need to contend with the mental aspect that interfering does to the shooter

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12 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

To all of you who focus on the timer getting that LAST shot....... How do you know when its the last 

shot?

 

Have you never considered that maybe the 3rd or 4th shot from a pistol could be the LAST round fired

but you failed to atleast try to get it recorded because you didn't considered it being that last round?

 

How about a broke SG on the 2nd or 3rd round, everything goes South for the shooter, and you're standing

back with the timer hanging down at your side, waiting for their LAST shot on the stage, which 

turns out NOT TO BE the 4th round.    

 

If you're gonna stand there and watch EVERYTHING else, atleast try to focus also that the timer

collects as much as possible.   The shooter deserves it.

 

..........Widder

 

Amen! I watch for the timer to pick up

first shot and shots throughout the stage so I know it’s working and, the last shot... in case the timer gets bumped or something. I tell the shooter the time right away. 

 

Great big “I can’t sleep tonight” hugs!

Scarlett

 

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We must offer a different style of shooting. The local clubs around here have large bays and considerable movement. It's improbable that someone could keep up with the shooters to stand directly behind them at all times. We position ourselves to stay out of the shooters right of way. Fortunately, I'm tall enough to be able to hold the timer over the shooters head in my left hand with the screen facing up range and the time can be seen by everyone as the shooter progresses through the course of fire. As I stated many times before, the timer operator must be as focused as the shooter and can only run 4-5 shooters proficiently until they must hand off the timer.

 

 

For those lovers of stand and deliver, just hit the button and set the timer on the table with the sound pick up thingy facing up. Heck, just let the shooter hit the button if they're just going to stand in one spot. The timer could be placed in a cute little enclosure so it doesn't get hit with a rifle or shotgun empty or live round. The the timer operator is no longer the timer operator, they are just safety officers. Have I ever mentioned my disdain for stand and deliver stages?

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