Edge Hits

[Smokestack SASS#87384]

59 minutes ago, Missouri Marshal SASS #50682 said:

 

 

For those of you that insist you must "SEE" a miss.. you can spot for me.  I'll just load my guns with blanks and blaze away and you will have to call me Clean because you will never be able to "SEE" my misses. :-)

Good luck making power factor....BTW, 2 SOG=MDQ. Next shooter.

[CodyMaverick]

1 hour ago, Smokestack said:

Good luck making power factor....BTW, 2 SOG=MDQ. Next shooter.

 

MM only shoots BP, only needs to make smoke, no PF req.  and I think he's pretty much current on the rules and penalties and such. 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

6 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

 

Seeing does not mean actually having watch the bullet in flight. 

It means using every sense possible  including watching each target for any evidence of a strike on target.

Listening to every shot for any auditory feedback as evidence of a strike on target.

Observing all areas behind the target to substantiate your observations.

 

In other words; you are supposed to be an advocate for the shooter; seeking  every bit of honest and ethical evidence to call the shooter clean. 

It is only in the complete and total absence of that evidence; that you may call a miss.

 

Hey JEDI Creeker,  this is pretty good stuff.

Great points for everyone to follow.

 

..........Widder  (Walking In A WIdderWonderLand)

 

 

[Smokestack SASS#87384]

6 hours ago, CodyMaverick said:

 

MM only shoots BP, only needs to make smoke, no PF req.  and I think he's pretty much current on the rules and penalties and such. 

All rifle/pistol ammunition must be of a single projectile design. Just sayin’...

[CodyMaverick]

1 hour ago, Smokestack said:

All rifle/pistol ammunition must be of a single projectile design. Just sayin’...

 

I hear ya.  Sounds like a rule and you know that rules, like laws, are only important to those that intend to obey them.  Just sayin'...

[Kirk James]

If I see an edger, I will show it to the other two spotters and let them make their own call.  Most of the time the other two spotters will change their call when I show them the spot of the hit.  What I don't care for is trying to find an edge for someone who is just looking and did not see the edge hit on the possibility of a hit.  You either saw the edge at a location and can pt it out or you didn't see it.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

I hope you guys noticed the " :-) " on MM's comment re shooting blanks!

The same thought crosses MY mind whenever anyone insists that seeing off-target impact is the ONLY criteria for calling a miss!

 

[CodyMaverick]

3 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

I hope you guys noticed the " :-) " on MM's comment re shooting blanks!

The same thought crosses MY mind whenever anyone insists that seeing off-target impact is the ONLY criteria for calling a miss!

 

 

Yep,  some folks just seem to cling to the old ways.  He'd probably sooner switch to smokeless than use an emoticon.   

 

I thought about making a similar comment but I was already getting in to some thin ice with Allie.   

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

22 hours ago, Lorelei Longshot, SASS #44256 Life said:

It should never be a miss unless YOU know for sure it is a MISS.  Counters should not be looking at other counters to see what their count was either.  Counters should call WHAT THEY SEE which is why we have three counters.

 

Also when counting for black powder shooters, don't stand directly behind them.  You need to be able to see the targets from the side rather than just the smoke from behind them.  Too often BP shooters get misses called unless they are the first shooter on a target that was freshly painted because counters "couldn't see because of the smoke."  That's one reason I like to shoot first on freshly painted targets.

 

BP shooters can be difficult to count for. I will never forget the time at EOT (I've only been to one) when I called a P and the other two counters called clean. I was standing directly behind the "wrong" target he hit, hence the P. They couldn't see anything through the smoke. Both calls were correct from the counter's line of sight. Unfortunately for the shooter, the Berm Marshall was standing next to me and saw the hit on the wrong target. I knew I was right; but, was okay with the majority call ruling. IMO, it wasn't worth arguing about.

 

1 hour ago, CodyMaverick said:

 

Yep,  some folks just seem to cling to the old ways.  He'd probably sooner switch to smokeless than use an emoticon.   

 

I thought about making a similar comment but I was already getting in to some thin ice with Allie.   

 

Not really, Cody.  I don't even have a "file" with your name on it.

[Smokestack SASS#87384]

7 minutes ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

 

 

 

Not really, Cody.  I don't even have a "file" with your name on it.

He can have a few pages out of mine if he needs a head start.

[CodyMaverick]

43 minutes ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

 

BP shooters can be difficult to count for. I will never forget the time at EOT (I've only been to one) when I called a P and the other two counters called clean. I was standing directly behind the "wrong" target he hit, hence the P. They couldn't see anything through the smoke. Both calls were correct from the counter's line of sight. Unfortunately for the shooter, the Berm Marshall was standing next to me and saw the hit on the wrong target. I knew I was right; but, was okay with the majority call ruling. IMO, it wasn't worth arguing about.

 

 

Not really, Cody.  I don't even have a "file" with your name on it.

 

Not yet anyhow,  When you asked did I wanna keep diggin? I took the hint! 

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

LOL! I have a soft spot in my heart for anyone who proclaims to like "Shooting, Knotting, Juggling, Puzzles, Music, and Books "

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

How's bouts Folks that likes Allie Mo and Cats ???

 

Jabez Cowboy

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

PS Most of my "files" start with someone else reporting rudeness.

PPS I will warn a newbie about political posts or inappropriate classifieds posts without making note of it. (We have a lot of rules/guidelines and people make innocent mistakes.) Rudeness or insults are always grounds for a file. IMO, people should know better.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

1 minute ago, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said:

How's bouts Folks that likes Allie Mo and Cats ???

 

Jabez Cowboy

 I should start a  "Can do no wrong" file.

[Kirk James]

This thread brings up a great deal of concern!  No wonder everyone wants to pick their own posse members at big matches.  All we want is a fair chance.  That is why the benefit of the doubt must go to the shooter!!!!!  An unfair miss will determine a World or National Championship.  Everyone needs to be on the same page.  Maybe the solution needs to be all targets get repainted after each shooter at National and World Championships.  I realize time does not permit the way we do things now with the no. of participants we allow.  Not sure of the solution, but the problem is apparent.    

[Widder, SASS #59054]

I think you oughta start a 'Widder's Christmas wish list' file..... 

 

This time of year, we all get to watch one of my favorite Christmas movies.....'Its a Widderful Life'.

 

 

..........Widder   (Walkin In A WidderWonderLand)

 

 

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

6 minutes ago, Kirk James said:

This thread brings up a great deal of concern!  No wonder everyone wants to pick their own posse members at big matches.  All we want is a fair chance.  That is why the benefit of the doubt must go to the shooter!!!!!  An unfair miss will determine a World or National Championship.  Everyone needs to be on the same page.  Maybe the solution needs to be all targets get repainted after each shooter at National and World Championships.  I realize time does not permit the way we do things now with the no. of participants we allow.  Not sure of the solution, but the problem is apparent.    

Hi Kirk,

 

I think I met your son at a W3G match. So he can explain if you have any questions. They paint targets between shooters and it is quite doable without unnecessary delay. You have one counter and the scorekeeper walk the targets to determine misses. The other two people, who would be counters at a SASS match, spray the targets. It is very efficient and seems more fair to me than the SASS method.

 

I have only seen one person question his misses (after the targets were painted  ).

 

Regards,

 

Allie

[C0ckr0ach, SASS #26100]

1 hour ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Hi Kirk,

 

I think I met your son at a W3G match. So he can explain if you have any questions. They paint targets between shooters and it is quite doable without unnecessary delay. You have one counter and the scorekeeper walk the targets to determine misses. The other two people, who would be counters at a SASS match, spray the targets. It is very efficient and seems more fair to me than the SASS method.

 

I have only seen one person question his misses (after the targets were painted  ).

 

Regards,

 

Allie

Allie, Had not heard of that approach being used.   It is worth a try.  Would have to paint the edges, as well.

 

I believe my original questions were answered and it does not appear that anyone got really upset.

[Major BS Walker Regulator]

I got upset.

[Smokestack SASS#87384]

2 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Hi Kirk,

 

I think I met your son at a W3G match. So he can explain if you have any questions. They paint targets between shooters and it is quite doable without unnecessary delay. You have one counter and the scorekeeper walk the targets to determine misses. The other two people, who would be counters at a SASS match, spray the targets. It is very efficient and seems more fair to me than the SASS method.

 

I have only seen one person question his misses (after the targets were painted  ).

 

Regards,

 

Allie

That works when there are only a hand full of shooters like a W3G match but would be a nightmare at a bigger SASS match. 

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

3 hours ago, Kirk James said:

This thread brings up a great deal of concern!  No wonder everyone wants to pick their own posse members at big matches.  All we want is a fair chance.  That is why the benefit of the doubt must go to the shooter!!!!!  An unfair miss will determine a World or National Championship.  Everyone needs to be on the same page.  Maybe the solution needs to be all targets get repainted after each shooter at National and World Championships.  I realize time does not permit the way we do things now with the no. of participants we allow.  Not sure of the solution, but the problem is apparent.    

One local club paints after every shooter at their annual match.  The paint is often dry before all the brass is picked up.  If three or four shooters walk downrange with paint cans the work goes quickly.  It eliminates discussions of whether an edger was from a previous shooter.

[CodyMaverick]

3 hours ago, Widowmaker Hill SASS #59054 said:

I think you oughta start a 'Widder's Christmas wish list' file..... 

 

This time of year, we all get to watch one of my favorite Christmas movies.....'Its a Widderful Life'.

 

 

..........Widder   (Walkin In A WidderWonderLand)

 

 

 

I'm beginning to think your Tennessee pumpkin juice was a bit heavy on the good 'ol mountain dew this year.   Got any left to share? 

[CodyMaverick]

1 hour ago, Major B. S. Walker said:

I got upset.

 

Me too!  Darn you Cockroach, somebody turn on the light!

[CodyMaverick]

4 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

IMO, people should know better.

 

I agree.  it amazes me at times to see where an obvious misinterpretation of a comment can go south really quickly.  I noticed a string of posts in another topic has mysteriously vanished.  Thank you!

[Major BS Walker Regulator]

Cody, I'm Cockroaches nemesis,

 

Bug Spray Walker

[Scarlett]

I take spotting very seriously and appreciate others doing the same. I have enough misses on my own.  

 

A couple of things that bug me:

1) spotters NOT paying attention and having conversations about miss(es).

 

2) lazy spotters who only listen for hits and don’t look at targets - edge hits/Ps. If you’re not looking at targets, how can you know if it’s shot in proper order? 

 

Spotting is NOT for beginners...and Brass picking is NOT only for ladies/kids.  

 

Hugs, 

Scarlett

 

 

[Scarlett]

5 hours ago, C0ckr0ach, SASS #26100 said:

paint the edges, as well.

At NC state match, I painted the targets after our posse finished - I purposely chose the outline paint color and made double sure that the edges were painted for the next posse - edgers are HITS, too!

 

Hugs,

Scarlett

[Scarlett]

8 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

LOL! I have a soft spot in my heart for anyone who proclaims to like "Shooting, Knotting, Juggling, Puzzles, Music, and Books "

What’s knotting?

[CodyMaverick]

4 hours ago, Scarlett said:

What’s knotting?

 

It's the subtle art of convincing things like rope, string, lace, etc... to tangle itself in some organized fashion.

 

e.g. 

[Major BS Walker Regulator]

I guess that means that you are someone, no one should tangle with

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

16 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

 

BP shooters can be difficult to count for. I will never forget the time at EOT (I've only been to one) when I called a P and the other two counters called clean. I was standing directly behind the "wrong" target he hit, hence the P. They couldn't see anything through the smoke. Both calls were correct from the counter's line of sight. Unfortunately for the shooter, the Berm Marshall was standing next to me and saw the hit on the wrong target. I knew I was right; but, was okay with the majority call ruling. IMO, it wasn't worth arguing about.

 

 

Not really, Cody.  I don't even have a "file" with your name on it.

It doesn't take a majority to call a "P", in fact the TO maybe the only one to see it and can call a "P".  MT

[Null N. Void]

Just tell the TO what you saw, or didn't see without prompting.   The TO may have saw the same thing you did and will call the P but would like some confirmation.  With BP, the spotters can hear the hit, but often can't see it.  If you clearly see the hit on the wrong target, just let the TO know.  

 

As an aside, I've seen heavy loads with black powder move the target next to the correct one with splatter.  With both targets moving and visibility restricted, it can be hard to tell which target was hit.

[El Mulo Vaquero, SASS #55942]

9 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I take spotting very seriously and appreciate others doing the same. I have enough misses on my own.  

 

A couple of things that bug me:

1) spotters NOT paying attention and having conversations about miss(es).

 

2) lazy spotters who only listen for hits and don’t look at targets - edge hits/Ps. If you’re not looking at targets, how can you know if it’s shot in proper order? 

 

Spotting is NOT for beginners...and Brass picking is NOT only for ladies/kids.  

 

Hugs, 

Scarlett

 

 

 

X1000

and x1000 for  "and Brass picking is NOT only for ladies/kids"

 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

9 hours ago, Scarlett said:

 

Spotting is NOT for beginners...and Brass picking is NOT only for ladies/kids.  

 

Hugs, 

Scarlett

 

 

 

WHAT?   

Now you tell me..... 

 

Christmas hugs to you and Tommy.

 

..........Widder