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BP lube


Red Cent

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I have been purchasing Desperado Bullets (38-55 , .380, 260 gr) and I am very pleased with the bullets. Has anyone here used the bullets with BP? They advertise that the blue colored lube is compatible with smokeless and BP. I have an e-mail headed their way but I am curious as does the lube really work.

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Not enough of it for the rifle.

 

You'll need to swab the barrel on a regular basis during a match

 

but it does work, at least in my experience

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I use their .32-20 bullets in a 20" rifle.  I get much less fouling in the bore melting out the blue stuff and relubing with my own.

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I cast and lube all my bullets .

50/50 Bees wax and Crisco .

Works for Smokeless and BP.

Just sayin.

Rooster 

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I have not found a blue or red lube that is BP compatible. I lube all my bp rounds with SPG.

 

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4 hours ago, Red Cent said:

I have been purchasing Desperado Bullets (38-55 , .380, 260 gr) and I am very pleased with the bullets. Has anyone here used the bullets with BP? They advertise that the blue colored lube is compatible with smokeless and BP. I have an e-mail headed their way but I am curious as does the lube really work.

 

Howdy

 

I have never used that brand of bullets. However to be effective with Black Powder the lube has to be soft and squishy. If that stuff is not soft and squishy I recommend melting it out and relubing with something like SPG.

 

When I used to pan lube my bullets I would use a mix of 50/50 Beeswax and Crisco. If you want instructions on Pan Lubing, give me a shout.

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APP is okay to use with any lube, according to their website.

I use APP with regular bullets/lube from Valiant, Blue Boy and Clarks with no issues.

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12 hours ago, Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 said:

 

Howdy

 

I have never used that brand of bullets. However to be effective with Black Powder the lube has to be soft and squishy. If that stuff is not soft and squishy I recommend melting it out and relubing with something like SPG.

 

When I used to pan lube my bullets I would use a mix of 50/50 Beeswax and Crisco. If you want instructions on Pan Lubing, give me a shout.

This right here. I have tried different bullets that are supposed to be BP compliant and they don't work at all. You can see this right away in rifles if you are shooting at a match with targets that are sass recommended distance or further after only a single stage. Accuracy is completely gone after one stage. One of the bullet makers told me that his bullets work great, just swab the barrel between stages. If you use something like Springfield Slim's big lube bullets, you don't have to swab the barrel even after 10 stages. Same with pistols and cylinder faces. For me, BP shooting is plenty of work already without having to swab barrels or clean cylinders every stage.

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Cemetery, a few of the shooters that I meet at a match use duplex loads and they go through 20 rounds or more before they clean the barrel. The forums are loaded with remarks that their is little to almost no fouling left.

I am aware that the use of the smokeless is intended to provide complete ignition of the BP but the unintended consequences makes for a barrel that does not need a patch after every shot. Since I shoot a 336CB in 38-55, it is difficult to run a patch through it very often B)

I shoot the same load that almost everybody shoots in a 38-55. Since BP has  a reputation for doing a fine job bumping up a bullet, it seems, to this virgin BP shooter, the duplex load would be kinda satisfying.

Utah Bob, have you used Desperado blue lubed bullets?

The Original Lumpy Gritz , while very tacky and soft, I don't know if it is soft and squishy. Not sure where the line is between firm and hard to soft and squishy. Why does it need to be soft and squishy? :ph34r:

Desperado sells their bullets as is dropped from the mold. I am ordering another box or two of those and plan to resize and relube .379s and .380s.

All the forums are like a'''''''''''''''''''s, every body has an opinion. Or maybe its the other way around. Anyway, a lot of shooters say you do not have to use a fat round. Groove size will work better. Groove diameter on the CB is .379.

And, the chamber leade has been modified from that steep cliff that is normally in the Marlin chamber. That noticeably improved accuracy plus loading the bullet until the lever barely closes:blink:

Hit 20 for 20 at 200 yards Sunday off bench sticks.

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If you are only shooting 20 rounds, it will probably work fine, especially in a humid place like NC. If you were shooting more, or in a drier climate, maybe not. There is no magic bullet. When they say more lube, they mean a bullet like in the pic.

38-55.JPG

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Jackson Rose, I shoot at three local gun clubs with some cowboys, past cowboys or just shooters. Each club allows a lot of things that does not qualify for SASS. We have fun and in there somewhere,  there is competition.

Springfield Slim, we shoot 20 at one club and there is a 45 round count at another club. I believe the other club is around 30 rounds. I can take the rifle down to the safe area, remove the  lever, ejector, and bolt, swab it, and be back in about 5 minutes.

 

We have some very good shooters in the crowd. A couple of weeks ago, one of the guys cleaned the 45 round match. That meant he hit the 10 ring and all silhouettes, swingers at 100, 200, and 300 yards. Forget how many X's he hit. He was shooting either a 45-70 or a 40-65. Last Sunday he shows up with a 38-70. Lordy, that thing makes a racket with BP.

 

Watching some of these pull a trigger on a case full of BP makes me want to go and find me a small pillow. And that CB does not weigh a hole lot.

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1 hour ago, Jackson Rose, SASS #45478 said:

Sass specifically forbids duplex loads. page 12 of the handbook.

Who said anything about duplex loads ?

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Red Cent mentioned duplex loads in one of his posts , but I don't think he is talking about a CAS match , but a rifle match of some sort. The round count numbers are way to low for a CAS match , maybe one stage. :lol:

Red Cent , I have used Desperado bullets in the distant past , and at that time they sold two options , one for Smokeless and another for BP. Same bullets , different lube. Have no idea about nowdays choices.

Good luck , Rex :D

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3 hours ago, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

Who said anything about duplex loads ?

 

7 hours ago, Red Cent said:

Cemetery, a few of the shooters that I meet at a match use duplex loads and they go through 20 rounds or more before they clean the barrel. The forums are loaded with remarks that their is little to almost no fouling left.

I am aware that the use of the smokeless is intended to provide complete ignition of the BP but the unintended consequences makes for a barrel that does not need a patch after every shot. 

 

Right there.

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7 hours ago, Red Cent said:

Cemetery, a few of the shooters that I meet at a match use duplex loads and they go through 20 rounds or more before they clean the barrel. The forums are loaded with remarks that their is little to almost no fouling left.

I am aware that the use of the smokeless is intended to provide complete ignition of the BP but the unintended consequences makes for a barrel that does not need a patch after every shot. Since I shoot a 336CB in 38-55, it is difficult to run a patch through it very often B)

I shoot the same load that almost everybody shoots in a 38-55. Since BP has  a reputation for doing a fine job bumping up a bullet, it seems, to this virgin BP shooter, the duplex load would be kinda satisfying.

Utah Bob, have you used Desperado blue lubed bullets?

The Original Lumpy Gritz , while very tacky and soft, I don't know if it is soft and squishy. Not sure where the line is between firm and hard to soft and squishy. Why does it need to be soft and squishy? :ph34r:

Desperado sells their bullets as is dropped from the mold. I am ordering another box or two of those and plan to resize and relube .379s and .380s.

All the forums are like a'''''''''''''''''''s, every body has an opinion. Or maybe its the other way around. Anyway, a lot of shooters say you do not have to use a fat round. Groove size will work better. Groove diameter on the CB is .379.

And, the chamber leade has been modified from that steep cliff that is normally in the Marlin chamber. That noticeably improved accuracy plus loading the bullet until the lever barely closes:blink:

Hit 20 for 20 at 200 yards Sunday off bench sticks.

 

I have read about good success with duplex loads and long range BP cartridge.  But right now duplex loads are illegal in SASS, and as such, doesn't resolve the fouling issue in pistol caliber rifles, even at our distances.

 

I have a 25.20 that fouls out in 4 or 5 shots with real black.....I just went with APP instead.......

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Black powder lube is very simple. If it is animal or vegitable based it will work. By that I mean it will mix with the fouling and help to keep it soft. Keep the fouling soft and you can shoot all day long without cleaning. It has to be soft and melt at a low enough temperature to freely mix with the fouling to do its job. Too hard, too high a melting point or petroleum based and it will not mix with bp residue. If you have to wipe the cylinder face of your 6 shooter between stages to keep the gun from locking up or dragging the lube is not working. The next thing is there has to be enough lube for the job. I load 45 Colt for a 5 1/2" barrel and the bullet carries plenty of lube but when I run those rounds through my 66 carbine the last several inches of barrel fouls and has lead in the crusty scale. Easy to solve. A grease Cookie of bullet lube on top of the powder melts and mixes with the fouling to keep it soft and there is no leading and accuracy remains good. Ammo loaded like this and vegitable oil lube in the action allowes a 66 to run an entire match or a full day of playing without binding up. This has been my experience with Goex and Pyrodex. I have not used the other "substitutes" enough to speek on them except when I tried Black MZ in a rifle it required lube on the bullet to prevent leading.

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I received a response to my lube question. Pinto Annie of Desperado Bullets says " Black Powder compatible means that the lube we use was made specifically for Black Powder.  We use Thompson's PS Lube which is a 90 degree lube.  We personally use these when shooting SASS/CAS! This lube is not petroleum or Alox.  Thank you for your interest!  --Pinto Annie".

Thanks Pinto Annie

 

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A few years ago I shot with Mean Mark from OH or MI, and he had a small tin of loob which he used to dip his boolits in before loading them into his rifle amd revolvers.  He told me never had a problem. Don't remember was his loob mix was.

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You pards should know that any small bullet manufacturer like Outlaw Bullets (hint, hint) would be happy to sell you bullets that have not been lubed so you don't have to go through the trouble of boiling the lube you don't want off.

 

Be happy to talk to anybody about this.

 

 

Waimea (Owner of Outlaw Bullets)

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I shoot real BP exclusively. I've used Desperado bullets before with BP. The compatibility (IMNSHO) means it won't react negatively with BP. The problen is they don't carry enough lube. OK for pistols but I never liked them for my rifles. One of my pards always uses grease cookies. That'd be an option to add lube. Or just use Big Lube bullets. Springfield Slim can hook you up.

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I'm gonna try the factory lubed .380s in the 24" Marlin first. Friend traded me for a # of Swiss and I will use 4227 for the fire starter. In the meantime I will try to connect to those mentioned. And, yes, I have some trepidation regarding the duplex load. Not using the load but my constructing the load. Sounds simple. Do the usual while finding the depth of the bullet in the case. Find the "full" mark and weigh the volume of BP. Take 10% (or less) off and replace with smokeless. I load 'em very long due to some mods to the chamber. I get better accuracy if the bullet is firm into the rifling.

Some of the shooters use plastic milk wads to place over the powder. A few use the waxed paper milk carton and some toilet paper. Got some with lanolin. Wonder if it may help :ph34r:

BTW, I bought this rifle from a cowboy a number of years ago. A preacher down around Anderson, SC. I think his alias was/is Stub.

 

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