Dorado Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I've decided that I'm going to start reloading my shotgun shells. I've looked around at different reloading data sheets and can't seem to find one that I'm looking for. I'd like to replicate the Winchester AA low noise low recoil shells. Does anyone know where I can find the data for those? And what components I'll be needing? I have shells, need to know what wads and powder I should get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 According to my bottle of WinAA lite powder: AA hulls WAA12SL wads Win 209 primers 26 grams of lead shot XX.0 gr of powder don't know what other powder would replicate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorado Posted September 6, 2015 Author Share Posted September 6, 2015 I think I'm going to see if I can find some of the components. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt Westyn Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Hodgdon has it listed. https://www.hodgdon.com/basic-manual-inquiry.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Got any Unique powder? OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurricane Deck 100366 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I've been able to closely replicate the low noise low recoil rounds using titewad and promo. Despite OLG'S constant enthusiasm for Unique powder, there are better hammers for this nail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I've been able to closely replicate the low noise low recoil rounds using titewad and promo. Despite OLG'S constant enthusiasm for Unique powder, there are better hammers for this nail. Those 2 powders are among the fastest burning powders on the market today. They are # 6 & #9 on the burn chart of 149 powders, with #1 the fastest. They are even faster than Bullseye. That fast of a powder, will give you a sharper felt recoil than a slower burn'n powder like Unique(#31) does at the same MV. Burn rate chart- https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Burn%20Rates%20-%202014-2015.pdf There's a reason why I settled on Unique OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurricane Deck 100366 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Winchester is using WinAAlite to make the LR/LN rounds. It's #2 on the burn rate chart you linked to (and most other charts I've seen as well). Both Titewad and promo are MUCH closer to the factoy ammo he is tying to approximate than anything you could make with Unique. given that Winchester (or whomever actually makes the shells) chose the second fastest powder to make their lightest 12ga round, I stand by my claim. If Unique produced superior results, they would have used it. Hard to argue with the manufacturer when trying to duplicate THEIR round. At the light loads needed to approximate the LRLN round, that faster burn rate allows for a better seal in the shotgun without needing more powder. unique loads made with powder weight light enough to even come close to LRLN rounds are sooty and do not burn fully, leading to substantially more fouling than loads using faster burn rates (Which is why Winchester developed - or had someone develop - such a fast powder). Go too light and you venture in to the detonation range of the powder At heavier/faster loads, Unique becomes a viable powder (I have a couple lbs I use to make steel loads for Teal season for me and the misses, but it's a specialized load for the river we hunt on). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Sackett Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I didn't try to figure out the 26 grams of shot, I just load 7/8 oz. Load with 700X at the same velocity as low recoil AA's. Remington STS or Nitro hulls and the Win. grey wads. Works great! LS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 If you come across any old stock of WAALite (now discontinued) buy it. With it you can duplicate the featherlight load. Otherwise check the loading manuals for 3/4 oz and 7/8 oz loads using 700-X, Clays, Clay Dot or Extra-LIte. I am shooting a 7/8 oz load using Extra-Lite and like it. A friend is having success with 700-X (a more available powder). Others will recommend their favored fast-burning powders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your Nemesis Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 AA hulls 700 x claybuster wads pink 3/4 oz shot fed 209 primer. nice load in a 97 or SXS 3/4 oz is plenty for any targets I have found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Slim SASS #24733 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 My wife loves her light Clays loads. I found the recipe in the Hodgden youth loads chart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Hill Tirador Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Ok...I have to say it. I don't think I've ever seen anything quite a silly as listing all the components of a load EXCEPT the powder charge. Why is it again that load data, especially PUBLISHED load data, can't be posted on this forum? Seems odd to me especially considering that handloading is such an integral part of this sport for most competitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 From what I heard, Winchester is stopping the sale of the AA lite powder they use in the LRLN shells. Too many people using it and not buying the factory shells is what I heard. I still have about 5 pounds left, but when I couldn't find it I worked out a load real close to those LRLN rounds using Green Dot and the gray claybuster 7/8 oz wads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadeye Duvall Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I've decided that I'm going to start reloading my shotgun shells. I've looked around at different reloading data sheets and can't seem to find one that I'm looking for. I'd like to replicate the Winchester AA low noise low recoil shells. Does anyone know where I can find the data for those? And what components I'll be needing? I have shells, need to know what wads and powder I should get. I use Red Dot with 3/4 oz of 7.5 shot. My 12 year old has no problem knocking down targets. PM me Dorodo & I'll give you my recipe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Winchester is using WinAAlite to make the LR/LN rounds. It's #2 on the burn rate chart you linked to (and most other charts I've seen as well). Both Titewad and promo are MUCH closer to the factoy ammo he is tying to approximate than anything you could make with Unique. given that Winchester (or whomever actually makes the shells) chose the second fastest powder to make their lightest 12ga round, I stand by my claim. If Unique produced superior results, they would have used it. Hard to argue with the manufacturer when trying to duplicate THEIR round. At the light loads needed to approximate the LRLN round, that faster burn rate allows for a better seal in the shotgun without needing more powder. unique loads made with powder weight light enough to even come close to LRLN rounds are sooty and do not burn fully, leading to substantially more fouling than loads using faster burn rates (Which is why Winchester developed - or had someone develop - such a fast powder). Go too light and you venture in to the detonation range of the powder At heavier/faster loads, Unique becomes a viable powder (I have a couple lbs I use to make steel loads for Teal season for me and the misses, but it's a specialized load for the river we hunt on). Then you have never tried my Unique load. Winchester doesn't own Unique, so they will NEVER use it. Everyone who has tried my load has said it has less recoil than factory f'lites. I'll PM you the load. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Chance Morgun Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I'm sure that you have the info you wanted, but I've got three more. PM me if you'd like me to send them to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Ok...I have to say it. I don't think I've ever seen anything quite a silly as listing all the components of a load EXCEPT the powder charge. Why is it again that load data, especially PUBLISHED load data, can't be posted on this forum? Seems odd to me especially considering that handloading is such an integral part of this sport for most competitors. One word answer: Lawyers. Two word answer: Transposition errors. Multi-word answer: You ever noticed the spelling errors on these pages? Think of the potential damages when someone mistypes their favorite load, and the reader, being a neophyte uses same without bother to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Henry Quick Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Then you have never tried my Unique load. Winchester doesn't own Unique, so they will NEVER use it. Everyone who has tried my load has said it has less recoil than factory f'lites. I'll PM you the load. OLG I would be grateful if you would PM it to me as well. I haven't seen Unique in ages, but I still have some Universal and I bet I can figure out an equivalent load since they're almost kissing cousins. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Hill Tirador Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 One word answer: Lawyers. Two word answer: Transposition errors. Multi-word answer: You ever noticed the spelling errors on these pages? Think of the potential damages when someone mistypes their favorite load, and the reader, being a neophyte uses same without bother to check. My two word answer: Better lawyers. Seriously. (OK...that was three) What's the difference in posting a load, than sending it to someone via PM? Either way the SASS forum software is being used to send load data and either way there's a possibility of incorrect data being sent. There are innumerable websites out there that not only allow data to be shared, but even publish data. They all have the usual disclaimers to protect themselves. If this good folks here are really concerned about the well being of neophyte handloaders, wouldn't the logical thing to do be to help them instead of leaving them to figure it out on their own? Especially when the subject is as unique as reduced shotgun loads. I think the "no data" rule is one is one of those rules made just for the sake of making a rule. Cholla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickel City Dude Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I agree just a stupid rule. But the people that own SASS said so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Frank Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I understand the logic of the rule. Someone mis-remembers their load or fat fingers it when typing it in a post, and now you have a potentially dangerous load printed on the SASS Wire. The problem is this though. If that were to happen, 10 people would jump in to correct the mistake. As it is now, nobody sees the load data sent via PM, so the mistake goes uncorrected. It is one of those well-meaning rules that actually accomplishes the opposite of its intention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripsaw Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Not to pile on, but I agree. The prohibition on posting load data is overly cautious. I understand the reasoning, but there are plenty of other sites that post/permit posting data. But then again, it's not my site to set the rules. Put up a sticky disclaimer on the site regarding load data and relax the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy broncstomper Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 There has been some really good advice on this thread. The only thing I would suggest is trying to see which of the powders mentioned might be more readily available locally. Sometimes some of the shotgun powders get scarce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Trail Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Got any Unique powder? OLG Down to 8-1/2lbs. Just picked up an 8lb keg of Bullseye. Get what you can find around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorado Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 Alright so I went on a shopping trip today. This is what I have available. Winchester AA 2 3/4" shells Winchester 209 primers (only shotgun primers in town.) Claybuster CB 1100-12 wads the WAA12SL replacement wads 1 oz 25lbs of #8 shot As far as powders, I have a couple pounds of Clays that I can use. I went out in search of others and this is what I found. No WAAlite power, out of stock on Unique, plenty of Red dot and Titewad. That is what I was able to get without driving an hour or more away. If y'all would like to share your recipies, feel free to PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Down to 8-1/2lbs. Just picked up an 8lb keg of Bullseye. Get what you can find around here. Pick'd up 8 lbs of Unique when I was at the trap range last week. They said it came in about 3 minutes before I walk'd through the door, as it was still sit'n on the counter. Even a blind squirrel gets a nut once in a awhile. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorado Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 Ok, I may have found a load. Win AA shells Win 209 primer Clays XX gr WAA12SL or CB100-12 wads 1oz #8 shot est 1125fps That should work correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Trail Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Pick'd up 8 lbs of Unique when I was at the trap range last week. They said it came in about 3 minutes before I walk'd through the door, as it was still sit'n on the counter. Even a blind squirrel gets a nut once in a awhile. OLG Right you are. Last time I saw Unique was about 6 months ago at Bass Pro. Walked in, there were 3, 1lb bottles on the shelf. Then there were 3, 1lb bottle in my hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorado Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 Ok, I found a load that works. And with Clays to boot! Now I don't have to remember which powder is for what gun. I can just buy a big keg of Clays and call it good! It kicks a bit more than factory Win AA LNLR shells but not drastically so. It's controllable and hits harder as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Hill Tirador Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 You can use the 3/4 oz. data on the Hodgdon site (God forbid we should post it here), then reduce the charge down until you're at a level at which you're comfortable. That's the way I did it. Cholla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadeye Duvall Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 You can use the 3/4 oz. data on the Hodgdon site (God forbid we should post it here), then reduce the charge down until you're at a level at which you're comfortable. That's the way I did it. Cholla Try to load 3/4 oz. it will knock the targets down, use less shot & less felt recoil...you don't need an ounce of shot believe me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Try to load 3/4 oz. it will knock the targets down, use less shot & less felt recoil...you don't need an ounce of shot believe me +10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Frank Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Ok, I found a load that works. And with Clays to boot! Now I don't have to remember which powder is for what gun. I can just buy a big keg of Clays and call it good! It kicks a bit more than factory Win AA LNLR shells but not drastically so. It's controllable and hits harder as well. Trying to find that keg of Clays might be difficult unless something has changed recently. I used to use Clays for all of my cowboy reloading. When it became unavailable (the last two years), I switched to Red Dot for shotgun and saved my remaining Clays for pistol/rifle loads. I use the exact same recipe for Red Dot as I used with Clays. It might be a little softer shooting if anything, but you would be hard pressed to tell a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Hill Tirador Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I've loaded Clays, Red Dot and 700-X, and Clays definitely burns faster than the latter two. The latter two however are just about the same and are readily available. I use Red Dot for my CAS shotgun loads. If you want to save your Clays, just pick up some Red Dot or 700-X. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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