Calamity Kris Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Uno and I are looking to purchase our forever home. Without getting into a lot of details, we are second in line on a beautiful home. The first in line had a contingency on it but the seller put on a kick out clause. When the kick out was due to be enforced, the buyer lifted the contingency but didn't satisfy the clause. They are now telling the seller they won't be able to get financed until MAY 11th. The buyer and their sheister realtor won't even entertain shortening the finance period. The sellers are telling me they are over a barrel and can't do anything about it because they have a signed contract. I feel bad for the sellers because they are really getting raked over the coals. The house is ready to occupy but no one can move in. Meanwhile, the owners are paying utilities, taxes etc. on something they don't live in any more. In the mean time, Uno and I are in a holding pattern. Something doesn't sound right. I don't think the sellers are lying to us. 6 months does sound like a long time for loan docs. Is there something I'm missing here? What can be done about it or should I just walk away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 What does your lawyer think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Balz, SASS#46599 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Sounds fishy to me, the sellers want to sell, they should have the right to walk from the first deal if terms are not met. If you really want to the house, have your realtor submit your offer with acceptance in 24 hours and close in 30 days pending inspections. If they vacillate, find another house, If it were me I would already be looking for something else and not deal with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calamity Kris Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 What does your lawyer think? We don't have one. The sellers had to retain one to deal with the sheister realtor. Sounds fishy to me, the sellers want to sell, they should have the right to walk from the first deal if terms are not met. If you really want to the house, have your realtor submit your offer with acceptance in 24 hours and close in 30 days pending inspections. If they vacillate, find another house, If it were me I would already be looking for something else and not deal with them. We're already looking. This is one of those "One in a million" situtions. This house couldn't be any more perfect for us. Really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry T Harrison Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Here in Pa. our contracts have a clause spelling out time limits for certain things like inspections and financing including interest rates and a closing by date. These dates can only be waived in writing by both buyer and seller. The date to obtain financing is normally 15 days but can be a little longer depending on what is spelled out in the sales contract. We will not even show houses to clients not already pre-qualified for the appropriate financing. it's a waste of our time and the sellers time. Your laws may be different so consult a real estate attorney And yes I am a licensed agent in Pa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Sounds fishy to me, the sellers want to sell, they should have the right to walk from the first deal if terms are not met. If you really want to the house, have your realtor submit your offer with acceptance in 24 hours and close in 30 days pending inspections. If they vacillate, find another house, If it were me I would already be looking for something else and not deal with them. I agree, except that I think you should, via your broker, submit to the seller a revision to your offer to buy, "three (3) working days" to respond to your revised offer. You could add any other incentives you think would entice the seller, including upping your purchase price by maybe $5K, if you want the house badly enough. Ask yourself: Why is some stranger on the SASS Wire telling me this stuff? Why isn't my agent or h(is/er) broker telling me this stuff? Hopefully you didn't sign some version of an exclusive relationship with you agent/broker. If so, get them to rescind that agreement in writing right now and NEVER sign something like it again. Someone is BS'ing you folks regarding this transaction.... maybe actually enticing you to do exactly what I suggested!! That is, to raise your offer-to-buy price. Tread lightly here. My real advice is to back out of this weird trip completely, change agencies and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffield, SASS #23454 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Whatever you do, get a realtor who will represent you as a "Buyer's Agent." That way you are dealing with someone who works in your best interest, and not the seller's best interest. This can save you a lot of grief. Duffield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oklahomabound Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 ...given that your broker has not stepped up and is supplying the "here's what's going on" and "here's what we're gonna do" solution sets (ie., doing their job)---I'd lose your broker and this 'ere house and move on regardless of how good the deal is or how perfect the house is... ...there are other places... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calamity Kris Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 I agree, except that I think you should, via your broker, submit to the seller a revision to your offer to buy, "three (3) working days" to respond to your revised offer. You could add any other incentives you think would entice the seller, including upping your purchase price by maybe $5K, if you want the house badly enough. Ask yourself: Why is some stranger on the SASS Wire telling me this stuff? Why isn't my agent or h(is/er) broker telling me this stuff? Hopefully you didn't sign some version of an exclusive relationship with you agent/broker. If so, get them to rescind that agreement in writing right now and NEVER sign something like it again. Someone is BS'ing you folks regarding this transaction.... maybe actually enticing you to do exactly what I suggested!! That is, to raise your offer-to-buy price. Tread lightly here. My real advice is to back out of this weird trip completely, change agencies and move on. We don't have an agent. Uno doesn't trust them......................... The house was for sale by owner because their agents didn't generate any offers after 6 months on the market. They decided to sell it on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Balz, SASS#46599 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 We don't have an agent. Uno doesn't trust them......................... The house was for sale by owner because their agents didn't generate any offers after 6 months on the market. They decided to sell it on their own. Without An agent you are now at a legal disadvantage Walk from the deal and get a signed copy of your recinded offer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Balz, SASS#46599 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 We don't have an agent. Uno doesn't trust them......................... The house was for sale by owner because their agents didn't generate any offers after 6 months on the market. They decided to sell it on their own. Without An agent you are now at a legal disadvantage Walk from the deal and get a signed copy of your rescinded offer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Get out now. As stated, get a signed statement that your offer is rescinded. Find an agent who is also the broker of the agency. Don't sign an exclusivity agreement. Be careful. Go to the Internet and read up on buying a home. Do the same at the library. Get all routine home-buying documents prepared and signed and reviewed through escrow. Don't rush into something you know nothing about....you will be sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Without An agent you are now at a legal disadvantage Walk from the deal and get a signed copy of your recinded offer +1 Kris. Run from this deal as something isn't right. My guess is this house will remain on the market, or reappear later under more favorable conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Poker players never want to get trapped between two good hands, which is where you are now. As everyone else has advised, fold and get out of this game. My father ran the Multiple Listing Service for the Board of Realtors in several large cities. He would advise you to work with your own realtor, one who is a member of local and national Realtor organizations, and to avoid exclusive contracts...give all the realtors a chance to find you a property through the Multiple Listing Service. At this point you have no one in your corner looking out for your interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Walk away-NOW What you deal'n with now, is just the tip of the sinking iceberg. Sounds like some type of scam-- OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry T Harrison Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 We don't have an agent. Uno doesn't trust them......................... The house was for sale by owner because their agents didn't generate any offers after 6 months on the market. They decided to sell it on their own. Well there's your problem Why would anyone think they can handle the biggest transaction of their lives by themselves. The sales contract alone is 20 pages here. You get what you pay for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Uno and I are looking to purchase our forever home. Without getting into a lot of details, we are second in line on a beautiful home. The first in line had a contingency on it but the seller put on a kick out clause. When the kick out was due to be enforced, the buyer lifted the contingency but didn't satisfy the clause. They are now telling the seller they won't be able to get financed until MAY 11th. The buyer and their sheister realtor won't even entertain shortening the finance period. The sellers are telling me they are over a barrel and can't do anything about it because they have a signed contract. I feel bad for the sellers because they are really getting raked over the coals. The house is ready to occupy but no one can move in. Meanwhile, the owners are paying utilities, taxes etc. on something they don't live in any more. In the mean time, Uno and I are in a holding pattern. Something doesn't sound right. I don't think the sellers are lying to us. 6 months does sound like a long time for loan docs. Is there something I'm missing here? What can be done about it or should I just walk away? To answer your question and concerns, you need to see the original purchase agreement with buyer No. 1 (I doubt that you can see a copy) if the original contact had a closing date after May 11th, the seller is stuck. If the Kick Out, more commonly referred to as a right of first refusal in this type of issue was improperly drawn the seller, may be telling you the truth, but is still stuck - In all the purchase/sale agreements that I have reviewed, there is a termination/closing date, by which the buyer and seller must perform, once past that date, either party may cancel the agreement. Provided that the 1st transaction is past its closing date, and the closing date was not extended due to the Kick out, and provided that the seller is not being compensated for the delay in closing with buyer no. 1, the seller should have every right and reson to cancel the first transaction due to the 1st buyer's inability to perform. The Seller's agent should be activelly working to cancel the first transaction. In California there is specific language and penalties for failure to perform. If the only agent involved only represents the first buyer. Sounds like he is running a bluff. Best of luck Coffee President D & G Escrow Corp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 We don't have an agent. Uno doesn't trust them......................... The house was for sale by owner because their agents didn't generate any offers after 6 months on the market. They decided to sell it on their own. That should raise some warning flags right there. As others have said, you need to get as far away from that situation as you can. Yes, the house may seem perfect but, there are ALWAYS more out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Unless I had a real estate license and experience I would always hire an agent. That was my dad's advice. He was a realtor. Money well spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Advice is cheap, so feel free to ignore what follows...at you own financial/legal peril! The most likely reason that the potential buyers had a contingency was to "sell" their house. They removed their contingency, either by having a buyer for their property, which would account for the extended date of closing, or by taking a "bridge" loan, etc. You have two choices: You can wait and see if the sale closes on May 11. If it does, you are out, period! In that case, depending on the real estate market in your area, housing prices may have gone up significantly, maybe to the point that you are priced out of the market! DO YOU WANT TO WAIT AND TAKE THE CHANCE?! You can WALK AWAY, and look for another house, which is what most folks replying are recommending! SO DO I! I will admit that I haven't been a Realtor® (member of the National Association of Realtors) since the late 1980's and was actively serving clients in the '70's. The market conditions are different today, although the housing market in the Denver area is picking up significantly. May not be the case where you are. In Colorado, the Colorado Supreme Court, way back in 1954, ruled that Realtors were practicing law without a license! HOWEVER...because Realtors had been doing such a good job at it, the court ruled they could continue to do so without involving lawyers in the transactions, so long as they used the state-approved forms. But, we always recommended to our clients that they consult a lawyer if they wanted to! Back then, there was NO buyer-Realtor representation. That is, if a broker listed a house, and a second agent brought a potential buyer, the second agent was technically a sub-agent of the seller! Both agents had a fiduciary responsibility to the seller. Ethically, the second agent wasn't supposed to "s(r3w" the potential buyer, but legally he/she had to work for the seller. Nowadays, a buyer can contract with a Realtor to represent him/her. In that case, the buyer's Realtor has the legal/fiduciary obligation to the buyer, and can negotiate with the seller's Realtor or the seller, if the seller is trying to sell the house themselves, and is willing to work with the buyer's Realtor. I know that folks have said "Don't sign an exclusive agreement with a Realtor...let any Realtor who can find you a house do it. This can get complicated, and you could wind up owing several Realtors commissions. Maybe not, but it could happen. I understand the Uno doesn't trust Realtors. Not sure why that is, but I can understand. But I think you would be doing yourselves a favor by signing up with one Realtor, with a short agreement period...say 60 days. The only problem you could run into is if you fired one Realtor, and another showed you the same house. Depending on the laws of your state, you may HAVE to have an attorney involved to write offers, contracts, etc. I would recommend you talk with one regardless. Pick an attorney who specializes in real estate transactions, especially residential ones. "Perry Mason" or "Matlock" might be good at defending you against a murder charge, but would NOT necessarily be a real estate lawyer! If you don't know of a real estate lawyer, contact the county or state bar association, and have them recommend several (usually they will give you at least 2 names). Please belive me...you will come out much better and safer, if you have a Realtor and a lawyer. Oh, yes...insist on having a home inspection engineer inspect the property and give you a writen report on the condition, deficiencies, and problems. This can allow you to back away from a bad property, or negotiate remediation with the seller, which is made part of the contract! Sorry to shout, but I've seen disasters avoided by these steps, both as a buyer/seller and broker! Good luck1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rancocas Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 without PROFESIONAL representation, you are risking potential financial disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calamity Kris Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Thank you all for the eye opening advice. This situation has been a real education, and I'm learning even more here. I think a lot of why Uno doesn't trust realtors is because of the poor experiences he had both selling his original house and in looking so far out here. I realize he has extremely high standards but we haven't seen any shining stars either. They seem to lack competence or are downright shady. I do agree we need representation. I need to work through that with him. We are also not familiar with the codes and laws here. That alone could cost us big. Thank you again, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 As I recommended, talk to a real estate lawyer first. He may know a star-performing Realtor. Talk to several brokers who own the company. Some of the francise outfits have pretty good owners, as, if the major outfit gets complaints about the broker, he could lose his francise. Also, talk to the BBB and the real estate commission. Explain to them that you are not familiar with the laws and Realtors. They probably won't recommend anyone in particular, but they will sure tell you if there are complaints against any one individual or broker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Ms Calamity, I don't have any advice but will send up a prayer that the Lord gives you the right house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rancocas Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Ms Calamity, I don't have any advice but will send up a prayer that the Lord gives you the right house. +! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Walk away-NOW What you deal'n with now, is just the tip of the sinking iceberg. Sounds like some type of scam-- OLG Don't walk…..RUN…...that's not the only house out there despite how much you think it's perfect. There's another just as "perfect" waiting for ya somewhere maybe around the corner! Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffield, SASS #23454 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Advice is cheap, so feel free to ignore what follows...at you own financial/legal peril! The most likely reason that the potential buyers had a contingency was to "sell" their house. They removed their contingency, either by having a buyer for their property, which would account for the extended date of closing, or by taking a "bridge" loan, etc. You have two choices: You can wait and see if the sale closes on May 11. If it does, you are out, period! In that case, depending on the real estate market in your area, housing prices may have gone up significantly, maybe to the point that you are priced out of the market! DO YOU WANT TO WAIT AND TAKE THE CHANCE?! You can WALK AWAY, and look for another house, which is what most folks replying are recommending! SO DO I! I will admit that I haven't been a Realtor® (member of the National Association of Realtors) since the late 1980's and was actively serving clients in the '70's. The market conditions are different today, although the housing market in the Denver area is picking up significantly. May not be the case where you are. In Colorado, the Colorado Supreme Court, way back in 1954, ruled that Realtors were practicing law without a license! HOWEVER...because Realtors had been doing such a good job at it, the court ruled they could continue to do so without involving lawyers in the transactions, so long as they used the state-approved forms. But, we always recommended to our clients that they consult a lawyer if they wanted to! Back then, there was NO buyer-Realtor representation. That is, if a broker listed a house, and a second agent brought a potential buyer, the second agent was technically a sub-agent of the seller! Both agents had a fiduciary responsibility to the seller. Ethically, the second agent wasn't supposed to "s(r3w" the potential buyer, but legally he/she had to work for the seller. Nowadays, a buyer can contract with a Realtor to represent him/her. In that case, the buyer's Realtor has the legal/fiduciary obligation to the buyer, and can negotiate with the seller's Realtor or the seller, if the seller is trying to sell the house themselves, and is willing to work with the buyer's Realtor. I know that folks have said "Don't sign an exclusive agreement with a Realtor...let any Realtor who can find you a house do it. This can get complicated, and you could wind up owing several Realtors commissions. Maybe not, but it could happen. I understand the Uno doesn't trust Realtors. Not sure why that is, but I can understand. But I think you would be doing yourselves a favor by signing up with one Realtor, with a short agreement period...say 60 days. The only problem you could run into is if you fired one Realtor, and another showed you the same house. Depending on the laws of your state, you may HAVE to have an attorney involved to write offers, contracts, etc. I would recommend you talk with one regardless. Pick an attorney who specializes in real estate transactions, especially residential ones. "Perry Mason" or "Matlock" might be good at defending you against a murder charge, but would NOT necessarily be a real estate lawyer! If you don't know of a real estate lawyer, contact the county or state bar association, and have them recommend several (usually they will give you at least 2 names). Please belive me...you will come out much better and safer, if you have a Realtor and a lawyer. Oh, yes...insist on having a home inspection engineer inspect the property and give you a writen report on the condition, deficiencies, and problems. This can allow you to back away from a bad property, or negotiate remediation with the seller, which is made part of the contract! Sorry to shout, but I've seen disasters avoided by these steps, both as a buyer/seller and broker! Good luck1 Advice is cheap, so feel free to ignore what follows...at you own financial/legal peril! The most likely reason that the potential buyers had a contingency was to "sell" their house. They removed their contingency, either by having a buyer for their property, which would account for the extended date of closing, or by taking a "bridge" loan, etc. You have two choices: You can wait and see if the sale closes on May 11. If it does, you are out, period! In that case, depending on the real estate market in your area, housing prices may have gone up significantly, maybe to the point that you are priced out of the market! DO YOU WANT TO WAIT AND TAKE THE CHANCE?! You can WALK AWAY, and look for another house, which is what most folks replying are recommending! SO DO I! I will admit that I haven't been a Realtor® (member of the National Association of Realtors) since the late 1980's and was actively serving clients in the '70's. The market conditions are different today, although the housing market in the Denver area is picking up significantly. May not be the case where you are. In Colorado, the Colorado Supreme Court, way back in 1954, ruled that Realtors were practicing law without a license! HOWEVER...because Realtors had been doing such a good job at it, the court ruled they could continue to do so without involving lawyers in the transactions, so long as they used the state-approved forms. But, we always recommended to our clients that they consult a lawyer if they wanted to! Back then, there was NO buyer-Realtor representation. That is, if a broker listed a house, and a second agent brought a potential buyer, the second agent was technically a sub-agent of the seller! Both agents had a fiduciary responsibility to the seller. Ethically, the second agent wasn't supposed to "s(r3w" the potential buyer, but legally he/she had to work for the seller. Nowadays, a buyer can contract with a Realtor to represent him/her. In that case, the buyer's Realtor has the legal/fiduciary obligation to the buyer, and can negotiate with the seller's Realtor or the seller, if the seller is trying to sell the house themselves, and is willing to work with the buyer's Realtor. I know that folks have said "Don't sign an exclusive agreement with a Realtor...let any Realtor who can find you a house do it. This can get complicated, and you could wind up owing several Realtors commissions. Maybe not, but it could happen. I understand the Uno doesn't trust Realtors. Not sure why that is, but I can understand. But I think you would be doing yourselves a favor by signing up with one Realtor, with a short agreement period...say 60 days. The only problem you could run into is if you fired one Realtor, and another showed you the same house. Depending on the laws of your state, you may HAVE to have an attorney involved to write offers, contracts, etc. I would recommend you talk with one regardless. Pick an attorney who specializes in real estate transactions, especially residential ones. "Perry Mason" or "Matlock" might be good at defending you against a murder charge, but would NOT necessarily be a real estate lawyer! If you don't know of a real estate lawyer, contact the county or state bar association, and have them recommend several (usually they will give you at least 2 names). Please belive me...you will come out much better and safer, if you have a Realtor and a lawyer. Oh, yes...insist on having a home inspection engineer inspect the property and give you a writen report on the condition, deficiencies, and problems. This can allow you to back away from a bad property, or negotiate remediation with the seller, which is made part of the contract! Sorry to shout, but I've seen disasters avoided by these steps, both as a buyer/seller and broker! Good luck1 The money you spend on representation will be the best investment you ever made. It will save you a LOT of headaches and (in the long run) money, and may even restore Uno's faith in realtors. Duffield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oklahomabound Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 ...nough said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudgeBagodonuts Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Did you give the seller a written offer with no expiration date on it? If so, your first thing to do today is to write them a letter stating "I hereby rescind my offer of (date) for the purchase of your property." Sign and date it, then send it certified mail to them. Most offers have a short time period for acceptance or rejection. The longest I've seen was 2 months, but that was on a short sale situation. Most conventional offers are in the 3-5 day range. Likewise, the time period for things like inspections and financing are usually fixed in the original sale agreement. In my experience, the inspections usually have a limit of 2 weeks. Financing is usually phrased as "mortgage commitment by (date)". In some states, financing is phrased "mortgage application by (date)". In the latter case, the closing date is the same as the mortgage commitment date. These dates can be extended if both buyer and seller agree. The complication with this sale is that the contingency (probably the sale of the buyer's house) didn't happen. The buyer agreed to drop the contingency if the seller agreed to extend the closing date. Obviously, the real estate agent got involved here. He probably told the seller that they had a committed buyer and to "stick it out" with them by extending the closing. I've seen this a LOT. It protects the broker's commission, and is usually helpful for both parties in the transaction, as these extensions are usually shorter than starting over again with a new buyer. If the seller had been adequately represented, they would have changed the agreement to state that the seller may put the property back on the market, and the original buyer may have the option of paying any higher offer or backing out, up to the day of the mortgage commitment. The seller, if adequately represented, would also have been informed that 90 days is 45 days longer than a typical mortgage commitment period today. The seller's attorney or agent would also have told them to explore your offer before giving the original buyer an additional 90 days, which is something the buyer's agent would never tell a seller. If your offer to the seller has already expired, or you send the letter rescinding the offer, start looking at other properties. It's been my experience that extended closing dates typically allow the property to change hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forty Rod SASS 3935 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Having recently bought a house and going through all the BS involved, my advice is walk away. We found a great home with all kinds of nonsense rules and unnecessary restrictions. Four days later we found the house we bought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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