Gunfighter Question!

[Colt McCloud, SASS #65003L]

I got the call to Shoot Gunfighter in September right after Range War so have been at it since then . Have encountered many shooting sequences of targets and dry fire practiced many more but have not encountered or thought of this one until yesterday. Took some time to try and figure out how to best avoid "blocking" the movement but I can't see how it can be avoided for either the first 5 or last 5 rounds. Of course I'm fairly new to gunfighter so looking for a better way from you seasoned shooters and maybe a Jedi or two!

So..... stage starts with pistols and at the buzzer engage the 5 targets that are in a straight row to be shot: 1-5-2-4-3 and repeat for the next five rounds. Questions were asked as the stage instructions said outside-outside-inside-inside centre and the match director clarified it had to be done as indicated repeating the sequence twice. (Yes I asked if you could start the second five from the other end and it was a clear NO - - Dang!!!!)

Is there a "better way" to shoot it to minimize blocking (crossovers) on 5 rounds? Assuming of course I alternate the pistols!

 

Thanks

 

PS I managed to shoot it without a P and had a clean match!

[Grizzly Dave]

I think I would do it as follows

 

Left right left right right

left right left right left

 

or reverse might actually work better as you'd be cocking the left while moving from the center target to the left target.

[diablo slim]

I think double cocking instead of alternating would work with no cross overs...but I'm a alternating kind of Gunfighter too. Griz seems to have the answer

[Pit Bull Tex]

I would try it L R L R R first 5 and then L R L R L with next 5.Then I would watch Possum and see the best way to shoot.You beat me Grizz

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

I have found that habit is too strong to make major changes for one stage, so I would cross every shot on the 2nd 5. Too many Ps in this old boys pocket to do otherwise.

 

Might be tempted to shoot this one as a double cocker ... maybe ...

 

CR

[Charlie Whiskers]

Just talked with a friend of mine that used to shoot GF until he developed tremors in his left hand. Now he shoots right hand duelist. He had the same string and each time this is how he shot it. L1 R5 L2 R4 L3 then L1 R5 L2 R4 R3. There's nothing in the handbook that says you have to alternate between pistols shooting a sequence. Doing it the way he did there was no crossover with the pistols. He shot a double tap sequence the same way on the same setup at another shoot. L 11 R55 L22 R44 L3 R3.

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

I have found that habit is too strong to make major changes for one stage, so I would cross every shot on the 2nd 5. Too many Ps in this old boys pocket to do otherwise.

 

Might be tempted to shoot this one as a double cocker ... maybe ...

 

CR

Yep , everytime I try a lead change it's just not worth it. After all we are not really crossing over...it's a sorta push push the other hand out of the way. Good Luck

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[John Henry Quick]

DON'T CROSS THE STREAMS! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!

[Most Wanted]

I've done it both ways and didn't think one way was any faster or easier. So I would just keep alternating. Curious to see what Widder has to say.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

I've done it both ways and didn't think one way was any faster or easier. So I would just keep alternating. Curious to see what Widder has to say.

"Starting with pistols" as per the written stage instructions:

 

L-R-L-R-L....L-R-L-R-R

 

and try to holster the LEFT pistol after its last shot and be ready to pickup either longgun with left hand while firing 10th pistol round with right hand pistol.

 

This may only work for me and others who might want to pickup the longgun with LEFT hand.

 

In my opinion, the RIFLE is probably the 2nd firearm to be used and in that case, the shooter would want to decide which hand will pickup the rifle and then decide how they prefer to end their pistol shooting sequence.

 

There's alittle more to it than just deciding which 'lead change' or crossover technique to use.

 

 

..........Widder

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

Just talked with a friend of mine that used to shoot GF until he developed tremors in his left hand. Now he shoots right hand duelist. He had the same string and each time this is how he shot it. L1 R5 L2 R4 L3 then L1 R5 L2 R4 R3. There's nothing in the handbook that says you have to alternate between pistols shooting a sequence. Doing it the way he did there was no crossover with the pistols. He shot a double tap sequence the same way on the same setup at another shoot. L 11 R55 L22 R44 L3 R3.

This is exactly how I would shoot it. You kind of have to reset anyway after the first five, so it won't take that much to cock the left pistol after shooting target L3 and then moving your pistol over to target L1 again. You have to double cock again between R4 and R3, but you can be holstering your left pistol at the same time and be ready to move to the next gun as you're holstering your right pistol. Of course I would probably miss 3-4 of that sequence so the transition speed time wouldn't matter that much anyway.

 

Edit: again I am too slow on the draw and Widder beat me to the punch. Not only does he shoot (post) faster than me, he does it so much more elegantly.

[Anvil Al #59168]

For me it would be.

 

 

1L, 5R, 2L, 4R, 3R, 1L, 5R, 2L, 4R, 3L

 

That way you never cross over per say. And you only have to double up once.

And no hand has to swing more than one target at any time.

[Warden Callaway]

Congratulations on clean match shooting gunfighter.

 

The last match of the year at our range I had all kinds of problems and came in dead last overall. But I did well shooting gunfighter - even on convoluted sequence scenarios.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

There is another thing to consider, if you are looking at the aspects of transitions and MOVEMENT to the next firearm.

 

If you plan to move quickly to another shooting spot AFTER your last pistol shot, you may want to end your pistol string with the pistol OPPOSITE your movement direction.

 

If you are moving right, you have to consider holstering the right pistol after its last shot (8th or 9th shot) and your last pistol shot is with the left hand pistol. This process helps to keep you from breaking the 170 with your right pistol when you turn to holster and move, and it could particularly help keep you from sweeping someone.

 

 

..........Widder

[Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life]

I don't change. I am well past the age when I can supersede my learned memory!!!!

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

I don't change. I am well past the age when I can supersede my learned memory!!!!

That's what I'm sayin' - by the time you add in the P, the inevitable miss, and the indecision that caused the miss, I need to just keep shooting and eat the couple of seconds I may have saved if I got it right.

 

CR

[Sedalia Dave]

"Starting with pistols" as per the written stage instructions:

 

L-R-L-R-L....L-R-L-R-R

 

and try to holster the LEFT pistol after its last shot and be ready to pickup either longgun with left hand while firing 10th pistol round with right hand pistol.

 

This may only work for me and others who might want to pickup the longgun with LEFT hand.

 

In my opinion, the RIFLE is probably the 2nd firearm to be used and in that case, the shooter would want to decide which hand will pickup the rifle and then decide how they prefer to end their pistol shooting sequence.

 

There's alittle more to it than just deciding which 'lead change' or crossover technique to use.

 

 

..........Widder

As a shooter that aspires to shoot FCGF one day, if I were left handed I would shoot it exactly a Widder stated. Being as I am right handed I would shoot it . 1L, 5R, 2L, 4R, 3R, 1L, 5R, 2L, 4R, 3L.

That way I could be holstering my right pistol and freeing up that hand to pick up the next gun.

Too many people think that as a GF you have to alternate pistols when you could actually shot the entire string with one pistol and the second string with the other. Not as fast but perfectly legal.

 

All that said, In actual shooting I would most likely get ahead of myself and miss the tenth pistol shot trying to shoot the left pistol while holstering the right at the same time.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

As a shooter that aspires to shoot FCGF one day, if I were left handed I would shoot it exactly a Widder stated. Being as I am right handed I would shoot it . 1L, 5R, 2L, 4R, 3R, 1L, 5R, 2L, 4R, 3L.

That way I could be holstering my right pistol and freeing up that hand to pick up the next gun.

Too many people think that as a GF you have to alternate pistols when you could actually shot the entire string with one pistol and the second string with the other. Not as fast but perfectly legal.

 

All that said, In actual shooting I would most likely get ahead of myself and miss the tenth pistol shot trying to shoot the left pistol while holstering the right at the same time.

As a right handed shooter, this is why I would do it like Widder and my post describe. I have a little more control with my right hand so I can still keep on target while holstering (in theory anyway). I also like to reach for whatever long gun with my left hand first so I would want to be holstering with the right while grabbing the next gun. If the rifle, then my right hand would finish holstering and then reach for the lever as the gun came up to my shoulder with the left hand. If the shotgun, then I would do the same but maybe be reaching for shells with my right hand right after holstering, or reaching for shells with my left as I holster with my right and then grab the shotgun with my right and bring my left hand with the shells to the barrels. None of this, mind you, would be nearly as fluently performed by me as it sounds.

[Korupt Karl]

Widder and Al give good suggestions. I would probably decide to change leads so that my first empty gunhand would be available for transition/direction.

 

KK

[Anvil Al #59168]

As a right handed shooter, this is why I would do it like Widder and my post describe. I have a little more control with my right hand so I can still keep on target while holstering (in theory anyway). I also like to reach for whatever long gun with my left hand first so I would want to be holstering with the right while grabbing the next gun. If the rifle, then my right hand would finish holstering and then reach for the lever as the gun came up to my shoulder with the left hand. If the shotgun, then I would do the same but maybe be reaching for shells with my right hand right after holstering, or reaching for shells with my left as I holster with my right and then grab the shotgun with my right and bring my left hand with the shells to the barrels. None of this, mind you, would be nearly as fluently performed by me as it sounds.

 

 

Get with someone to work on transitions.

As I can see from this post you are wasting time with them by going for them

with your left hand when you are right handed.

Grab it with your right hand and drag it to you and up at the same time.

Then on rifle the left hand comes in lifting up the end of the barrel.

On shotgun it just comes up to shoulder while left is going to SG shells.

 

In most cases the long guns are always going down with one hand also.

The left. Again. Freeing up the right for next gun.

[Rock Rotten]

Ah the perils of cock shoot cock shoot. The fastest way never crosses guns. Double cock shoot shoot . The ability to blend both methods as required by the scenario is the Zen state of Gunfighter. Every once in a while you come across a scenario where you can pull a pistol while setting your long gun down. Get a shot or two off. Bring the other pistol into the string. Holster the first pistol. Simultaneously finishing the pistol string while grabbing the next long gun. Grasshopper becomes the Master.

[Sedalia Dave]

Get with someone to work on transitions.

As I can see from this post you are wasting time with them by going for them

with your left hand when you are right handed.

Grab it with your right hand and drag it to you and up at the same time.

Then on rifle the left hand comes in lifting up the end of the barrel.

On shotgun it just comes up to shoulder while left is going to SG shells.

 

In most cases the long guns are always going down with one hand also.

The left. Again. Freeing up the right for next gun.

Listen to one of the masters. Anvil Al knows his stuff. Learned by watching our clubs top shooters that it is much easier to grab the wrist of the buttstock hanging off the edge of the prop than grabbing the forearm and twisting the gun to get your hands in the right position. Exception may be vertically staged guns but I would have to actually do it a few times to know for sure.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

That explains a lot. Most of the shoots we do, the rifles are either port arms to start, or staged vertically. Rarely do we shoot rifles staged horizontally. It could just be equipment that we have. Occasionally the shotgun is staged on a "horse".

[Tom Bullweed]

I have been shooting GF for about a year now and have learned some tough lessons about my limitations. I cannot do a crossover well. I do not know when me guns get cocked; it just happens. That may sound funny to some, but I do shot one sub-20 and four low-20s in the past two six-stage matches.

I would shoot this as a mix of GF and DD:

L-R-R-R-R L-R-L-L-L and know that a P would be highly unlikely.

Maybe in a year or so I could shoot this alternating throughout.

 

(Last week there was a stage that was outside-outside-inside-inside-center and then reverse. 1-5-2-4-3 and then 3-2-4-1-5 Single-pistol shooters were swinging a lot to hit those targets. GF was two simultaneous Nevada sweeps starting on the outside and working to the center. Smoking GF stage!!)

[Korupt Karl]

My recommendation is to put up 5 pie plates somewhere and to practice dry firing different scenarios. With five plates you can use as many or as few as you want If you do the Nevada's with all combinations of plates as well as double tap sweeps, etc....... when you get one at a shoot you'll know what to do. I have the pleasure of shooting with some pretty good GFer's and when faced with a shooting sequence you can rest assured that they already know what they are going to do....they will know which gun to start with, if they are going to have to change leads, etc.

 

Occasionally you will get something strange thrown at you and you might have to rethink things, but be prepared.....and when you get home, practice that sequence. Also, practice split pistols where you have to move to another spot.....or if you have to restage.....

 

Hope this helps some

 

KK

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

My recommendation is to put up 5 pie plates somewhere and to practice dry firing different scenarios. With five plates you can use as many or as few as you want If you do the Nevada's with all combinations of plates as well as double tap sweeps, etc....... when you get one at a shoot you'll know what to do. I have the pleasure of shooting with some pretty good GFer's and when faced with a shooting sequence you can rest assured that they already know what they are going to do....they will know which gun to start with, if they are going to have to change leads, etc.

 

Occasionally you will get something strange thrown at you and you might have to rethink things, but be prepared.....and when you get home, practice that sequence. Also, practice split pistols where you have to move to another spot.....or if you have to restage.....

 

Hope this helps some

 

KK

Yep - and when the buzzer goes off and yer brain falls out ...

 

Kudos to the folks who can make the adjustments - it's taken me a long time and a lot of money to find out my limitations, and y'all know what Clint said about that

 

CR

[Spades Hanlin SASS#66204]

My recommendation is to put up 5 pie plates somewhere and to practice dry firing different scenarios. With five plates you can use as many or as few as you want If you do the Nevada's with all combinations of plates as well as double tap sweeps, etc....... when you get one at a shoot you'll know what to do. I have the pleasure of shooting with some pretty good GFer's and when faced with a shooting sequence you can rest assured that they already know what they are going to do....they will know which gun to start with, if they are going to have to change leads, etc.

 

Occasionally you will get something strange thrown at you and you might have to rethink things, but be prepared.....and when you get home, practice that sequence. Also, practice split pistols where you have to move to another spot.....or if you have to restage.....

 

Hope this helps some

 

KK

 

+1

 

Spades H.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

You'll have to forgive Spades for being long-winded!

 

:)

 

 

..........Widder

[Chancy Shot, SASS #67163]

Ah the perils of cock shoot cock shoot. The fastest way never crosses guns. Double cock shoot shoot . The ability to blend both methods as required by the scenario is the Zen state of Gunfighter. Every once in a while you come across a scenario where you can pull a pistol while setting your long gun down. Get a shot or two off. Bring the other pistol into the string. Holster the first pistol. Simultaneously finishing the pistol string while grabbing the next long gun. Grasshopper becomes the Master.

That tears it. I am going back to double duelist.

 

That's my story am I am sticking to it

 

Chancy

[Rock Rotten]

I don't always get it right. But it's fun to entertain the posse.

[Rock Rotten]

We have been giving a Train Wreck Award at our monthly matches for the last 6 months. Great fun. I won my first last weekend.

[Colt McCloud, SASS #65003L]

Thanks y'all for the ideas and advice!! I have only shot 9 matches now as a Gunfighter but am pleased with my progress. I have had a couple of melt downs trying to do a split pistol stage and have learned "my limitations". I know I will just have to be patient and put in the time and lead down range to eventually get into the "Zen" mode. I was shooting low twenties in Traditional style as a Senior and now have slowed down to an average of mid to high twenties. Korupt Karl I have had those 5 pie plates set up for a while and the dry fire has helped a lot. Going forward I will now work on starting with the right pistol first instead of the left for some sequences and will also throw in the two consecutive shots from one gun to avoid the crossovers (blocking). As well the transition pointers from Widowmaker Hill have given me food for thought. There is so much shooting to be done and so little time!! Hope to see y'all down the trail.

Colt

[Sedalia Dave]

Ask Buck D Law to send you his Gunfighter 101. Lots of good information there.

[Tom Bullweed]

I am right handed and newer to GF than many of these cowboys.

My right gun is usually out and on target first. Shooting the right gun first meant that my left gun was not likely on target when I was ready to fire the second shot. To make sure that the second gun is ready, I always try to shoot my left gun first. I found that this takes an extra half-second but the string runs a lot faster since the second (right) gun is ready.

Still learning though...

[Charlie Whiskers]

I've messed around with GF when I was trying out a new pistol a time or two. It affirmed my opinion that my left hand is for holding up my rifle and shotgun. And grabbing SG shells with. These times were not at a shoot.