Remember the good old stages

[Nasty Newt # 7365]

Good post Mathew; I think the general feeling is that it was fun at one time and now we can move on. A little now and then at the Member shoot or the Monthly is cool and most should be before the clock. If you were to think of the clubs that still do this with regularity, it's really tough to come up with many. Just sayin

 

KK

The game has definitely "moved on." That's life. The movie business and pop music business have also moved on, and are giving the public what they want: mindless action superheroes and twerking girls with their tongues hanging out. "Moving on" is not always an improvement.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

More times than not. "Moving on" is a move backwards.........

I for one, really like the silly off-the-clock stuff we do at RRV shoots.

LG

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

The angle of reflection determines the reflection of the angle.

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

The angle of reflection determines the reflection of the angle.

Amazing!! That's exactly what I was gonna say

 

 

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

 

ps; howdy Possum, hope all is well

[Nasty Newt # 7365]

Amazing!! That's exactly what I was gonna say

 

 

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

 

ps; howdy Possum, hope all is well

Aw, shucks! Me too! Guess I came in third.

[Madd Mike #8595]

vision is nothing more than light reflecting off an object

[Widder, SASS #59054]

When heading thru a long dark tunnel and you notice the light at the end is approaching faster than the speed you are traveling.....its time to switch tracks!

 

 

..........Widder

[Madd Mike #8595]

ok

summery

new cas is better than the old (so folks are sayin)

new movies are better than the old (tec-knowlege-igy)

 

I am watchin Maureen O'Hara and Henry Fonda right now, in a western filmed the year that I graduated HS

I did not pay attention then

but now, its a great watch

 

some times the good ol days are just fine t0000000000000

 

but I waz too young to even see

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Great JEDI Madd Mike:

 

I liked your previous avatars better, especially the purple skunk, or whatever it was.

 

is that your baby pix?

 

 

..........Widder

[Matthew Duncan]

Balancing the rifle on "Sister Sara's" shoulder for a shot at blowing up the bridge....

[Short Term Emory]

Balancing the rifle on "Sister Sara's" shoulder for a shot at blowing up the bridge....

 

 

Yep, kinda felt sorry for Sara's ears on that one!!!

[Madd Mike #8595]

Great JEDI Madd Mike:

 

I liked your previous avatars better, especially the purple skunk, or whatever it was.

 

is that your baby pix?

 

 

..........Widder

I was tolt to rein in my avatars, the warning was something bout breaking avatar rules

oh well

I like to play by the rules, and enforce them uniformaly

CAS rules

WB rules

avatar rules too

 

it may or may not be, but it must be, just look at the vocies in my left ear

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

I was tolt to rein in my avatars, the warning was something bout breaking avatar rules

oh well

I like to play by the rules, and enforce them uniformaly

CAS rules

WB rules

avatar rules too

 

it may or may not be, but it must be, just look at the vocies in my left ear

Since you used a recent photo there should not be a Wire avatar rule issue.

[Nasty Newt # 7365]

Balancing the rifle on "Sister Sara's" shoulder for a shot at blowing up the bridge....

I'm in the process of trying to determine if there is a Tannerite or other exploding target that our rifle rounds will set off. If not, I may provide a loaner 22 rifle and ammo--but we will be shooting at exploding targets in the not-too-distant future.

[Matthew Duncan]

 

I'm in the process of trying to determine if there is a Tannerite or other exploding target that our rifle rounds will set off. If not, I may provide a loaner 22 rifle and ammo--but we will be shooting at exploding targets in the not-too-distant future.

If y'all are within riding distance I'd love to try out your exploding targets!

[Harvey Mushman]

I'm in the process of trying to determine if there is a Tannerite or other exploding target that our rifle rounds will set off. If not, I may provide a loaner 22 rifle and ammo--but we will be shooting at exploding targets in the not-too-distant future.

Yippee Newt! I'll be there!

 

See ya tomorrow.

 

Harvey

[Harvey Mushman]

I was tolt to rein in my avatars, the warning was something bout breaking avatar rules

oh well

I like to play by the rules, and enforce them uniformaly

CAS rules

WB rules

avatar rules too

 

it may or may not be, but it must be, just look at the vocies in my left ear

 

Well, that voice could be the cuddly Easter Bunny, or it could be Kevin, the Evil Bunny of the Apocalypse?!

 

Care to share which one?

 

Depending on your answer, I may be paying a lot more attention to posse lists......

[Widder, SASS #59054]

I was tolt to rein in my avatars, the warning was something bout breaking avatar rules

oh well

I like to play by the rules, and enforce them uniformaly

CAS rules

WB rules

avatar rules too

 

it may or may not be, but it must be, just look at the vocies in my left ear

 

Madd Mike: go to the top of this page and check out that little picture in the upper left hand corner.

 

Who put that there?

 

 

..........Widder

[Krazy Kajun]

The angle of reflection determines the reflection of the angle.

PS, did you find that written on a sign at Chennault AFB?

[Badlands Bob #61228]

This is great.

 

Golf ball on tee

Knives, bow and arrows, roping, shooting snakes, throwing dynamite

I really like the ball and chain thing

Shotgun shell in a bowl of beans

Throwing a dummy out the window

I found an old claw foot bathtub in the prop trailer.

 

Thanks, keep'm coming.

 

Badlands (Evil) Bob

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

PS, did you find that written on a sign at Chennault AFB?

Lol. No...

[Madd Mike #8595]

once upon a time we had to carry old gus's leg, from shoot postion to shoot position

that was a hoot for sure

[Nasty Newt # 7365]

I think we still have that leg in one of the sea vans.

[Lou Graham, # 26112]

Lord knows it's hard enough to run a big match - keep the posse moving, keep the posse marshals on the same page, keep the posse moving, keep the shooters happy, fed, entertained, and moving but there needs to be at least SOME kind of fun or we have become IDPA in cowboy clothes with old guns. Or we can go shoot trap. (those guys are REALLY humorless)

 

The difference in cowboy is the play-acting and fun. It can be done off the clock and it doesn't have to be every stage but there should be at least some of it in every match.

 

Many fun activities are not a good idea at anything but a local match. OR you plan a major match that way, invite people (maybe a club annual?) and have a whole "retro match" advertised that way so everybody knows what to expect. I went to one of those and it was a HOOT. Know what, the same top shooters still won, even dragging a ball and chain from one shooting position to the next and having to say lines in between shooting each gun.

 

I'm not fond of random things that can change the outcome of the match (like drawing cards for target order)and action/lines can be off the clock but hands on hat, standby, beep -- no story, nothing to say, nothing in your hands, nothing to move or do over and over is kind of a watered-down version of what CAS is about.

 

Every stage that is set up as a bank reminds me of Butch and Sundance. If there's no line, you will get one anyway. If Driftwood is there, we're going to do the scene from the movie because we love it.

 

Those that forget to leave their dignity in the parking lot have a hard time in CAS.

[Korupt Karl]

I agree with Lou...there has got to be fun, but as she said not doing something that could determine the outcome. I think starting lines are cool and I use them on every scenario I write. Often, I leave a blank i.e. "I can't stand_____________" or "I'd like to see _________hogtied and in jail"...or something like that....if a shooter can't remember the line I generally say it is "Korupt Karl is my hero" and that usually prompts them to elaborate on that and it generally doesn't come out in my favor...lol.

 

KK

[Madd Mike #8595]

old stages are kind of like old route 66

or even older, the wagon trails west of old

folks just want the interstate these days, and not even given a ticket when speed on that

 

yup things change

what is next

warp speed cas

[Bones McCracken SASS #46721]

For the record;

(the following is just My opion, mostly...)

 

1. I LOVE the World Record website and what it does for those people that have those skills. But it's not CAS.

2. I think Quick-draw is great, again, for the same reasons. But it's not CAS.

3. Wild Bunch is a fantastic way of celebrating a unique time in our history, and making a shooting sport of it. But it's not CAS.

4. I resist "evolving" a game into a competition. I feel the "Overall Winner" acknowledgement is counter productive to the game.

5. I don't believe that just because "X" does it "that way" that any other club/shoot has ANY obligation to mimic it (as long as ALL SASS rules/guidelines are met).

6. EVERY match, from a club match to the World Championships is a "show-up" match. Entry is not earned. So, if a Regional match wants to be over the top silly, and have all 60 second stages with axe throwing and poem reciting on the clock... they can. If that is not your cup of tea, don't go.

7. I personally step to the line, and in my mind am "reliving history". I play this game to truly feel like I am in a bar fight/gun-fight/saving the ..."fair maiden" in 1867. I want it as real as possible. I want movement, doors, windows, obstacles. I want all my skills tested, reloading, moving targets, being given the task of deciding the best way to negotiate the situation...

8. Yes, I am a contradiction. I play the Game, and I do Compete. My first desire is to play a game, buy my inner being says RACE! Many of my friends are top competitors, but to me it is first and foremost a Game.

 

Yes, I have on my asbestos chaps because I'm certain some of you will flame my arse off... I don't care. And to be honest, I'll not likely respond to many if any of the responses.

 

I'm sure by now I've divided most of the reader's into two camps, I'm just hoping that my thoughts will help some of you clarify your thoughts. I personally feel the squeaky wheel is getting a bit too loud, and I'd like to see more of the majority speak it's mind. (my belief re; the "squeaky wheel" being the minority is based on my experiences with how many shooters I see "playing a game" vs. "partaking in a competition").

Your mileage may vary.

 

That being said, here are My thoughts on CAS...

I thought the point of CAS was to "go back in time" and play a game that is (somewhat) historically based, because the current shooting sport had become too competitive, uptight, and no fun.

 

Sure, there are arguments about introducing "chance" to decide the outcome of a match. Not a great idea. And of course, asking people to kneel or run puts an unfair advantage on some shooters (although, the purpose of the age-based categories addresses that. And anyone with a serious physical hindrance comes into this game knowing that it will have an impact on their performance).

 

As I understand it, this "sport" started out as a "game" (per Webster's: a physical or mental activity or contest that has rules and that people do for pleasure).

 

Yes, this "game" has evolved over the years. The founder's of this game made up many categories so that all would be winner's. And, over time (for obvious marketing reasons) their emphasis has shifted to an "overall winner". But THAT is a whole other hot-potato... But, that seems to have fostered an environment where the game has become a "competition" (per Webster's: the act or process of trying to get or win something (such as a prize or a higher level of success) that someone else is also trying to get or win : the act or process of competing).

But alas, there is no Pink Cadillac in the parking lot...

 

So, as I see it;

Partaking in Competition, eventually the competitors tire of the ambiance of the competition. They take what they are doing and create a new game. Over time, to promote the game, the aspects of competition are introduced. The game evolves.

Eventually, there are more competitors (based on the volume of the out-cries, think: "squeaky wheel") than gamers'... and there begins to be a push to forget the old ways of the "game", and evolve to more of a "competiton".

 

IF CAS is mimicking old-west history (or Hollywood's version of it), how can it evolve without becoming diluted? I think of the north/south reenactor's, do they begin using AR's because . . . ? Sure, that is a silly/extreme example. But it made the point.

I believe the CAS crowd is contains some of the most adept shooter's of the different shooting disciplines.

I believe the CAS crowd has absolutely the friendliest most-giving "people" (in my experiences).

I believe the Majority of the shooter's prefer the Game over the Competition (I may be wrong, I often am).

 

CAS is popular (in my opinion) because it

A: Allows people to become young again, and play their childhood games.

B: Brings like-minded people together.

C: Allows people to demonstrate their skills.

 

There is a natural human nature to want to do well, whether it be a game or competition. So, it only makes sense that people will want to "adjust" the game to suit their strengths. But, it is a slippery slope when "friendly competition" begins to become purely
"competition", that is how/when the "game" is run outta town by the "competitors", and you end up right where you started, before there ever was a "game".

 

How is a good balance of game/competition maintained? I don't know.

What is a good balance? Again, I don't know.

What is a bad balance? That I do know. When the few (squeaky wheels) dictate for the many, the balance is off.

 

I like the SASS adage of: What would the Duke do? Which is to say: if you have to ask, the answer is no.

For me, I think "if Sergio Leone was filming this, how would he do it?"

As someone has already stated, the K.I.S.S. principle is time tested, and works.

If you want just competition, there are other venues out there for that, or start your own. If you want to play pretend and relive the (somewhat imaginary) past like in the old movies, go to a nearby CAS match.

 

Maybe the gamer's have already been overtaken by the competitor's, and I'm just a romantic hold-out... I sure hope not.

 

I'm just sayin...

Bones.

[Kiowa Kid, SASS #69870L]

For the record;

(the following is just My opion, mostly...)

 

1. I LOVE the World Record website and what it does for those people that have those skills. But it's not CAS.

2. I think Quick-draw is great, again, for the same reasons. But it's not CAS.

3. Wild Bunch is a fantastic way of celebrating a unique time in our history, and making a shooting sport of it. But it's not CAS.

4. I resist "evolving" a game into a competition. I feel the "Overall Winner" acknowledgement is counter productive to the game.

5. I don't believe that just because "X" does it "that way" that any other club/shoot has ANY obligation to mimic it (as long as ALL SASS rules/guidelines are met).

6. EVERY match, from a club match to the World Championships is a "show-up" match. Entry is not earned. So, if a Regional match wants to be over the top silly, and have all 60 second stages with axe throwing and poem reciting on the clock... they can. If that is not your cup of tea, don't go.

7. I personally step to the line, and in my mind am "reliving history". I play this game to truly feel like I am in a bar fight/gun-fight/saving the ..."fair maiden" in 1867. I want it as real as possible. I want movement, doors, windows, obstacles. I want all my skills tested, reloading, moving targets, being given the task of deciding the best way to negotiate the situation...

8. Yes, I am a contradiction. I play the Game, and I do Compete. My first desire is to play a game, buy my inner being says RACE! Many of my friends are top competitors, but to me it is first and foremost a Game.

 

Yes, I have on my asbestos chaps because I'm certain some of you will flame my arse off... I don't care. And to be honest, I'll not likely respond to many if any of the responses.

 

I'm sure by now I've divided most of the reader's into two camps, I'm just hoping that my thoughts will help some of you clarify your thoughts. I personally feel the squeaky wheel is getting a bit too loud, and I'd like to see more of the majority speak it's mind. (my belief re; the "squeaky wheel" being the minority is based on my experiences with how many shooters I see "playing a game" vs. "partaking in a competition").

Your mileage may vary.

 

That being said, here are My thoughts on CAS...

I thought the point of CAS was to "go back in time" and play a game that is (somewhat) historically based, because the current shooting sport had become too competitive, uptight, and no fun.

 

Sure, there are arguments about introducing "chance" to decide the outcome of a match. Not a great idea. And of course, asking people to kneel or run puts an unfair advantage on some shooters (although, the purpose of the age-based categories addresses that. And anyone with a serious physical hindrance comes into this game knowing that it will have an impact on their performance).

 

As I understand it, this "sport" started out as a "game" (per Webster's: a physical or mental activity or contest that has rules and that people do for pleasure).

 

Yes, this "game" has evolved over the years. The founder's of this game made up many categories so that all would be winner's. And, over time (for obvious marketing reasons) their emphasis has shifted to an "overall winner". But THAT is a whole other hot-potato... But, that seems to have fostered an environment where the game has become a "competition" (per Webster's: the act or process of trying to get or win something (such as a prize or a higher level of success) that someone else is also trying to get or win : the act or process of competing).

But alas, there is no Pink Cadillac in the parking lot...

 

So, as I see it;

Partaking in Competition, eventually the competitors tire of the ambiance of the competition. They take what they are doing and create a new game. Over time, to promote the game, the aspects of competition are introduced. The game evolves.

 

Eventually, there are more competitors (based on the volume of the out-cries, think: "squeaky wheel") than gamers'... and there begins to be a push to forget the old ways of the "game", and evolve to more of a "competiton".

 

IF CAS is mimicking old-west history (or Hollywood's version of it), how can it evolve without becoming diluted? I think of the north/south reenactor's, do they begin using AR's because . . . ? Sure, that is a silly/extreme example. But it made the point.

 

I believe the CAS crowd is contains some of the most adept shooter's of the different shooting disciplines.

I believe the CAS crowd has absolutely the friendliest most-giving "people" (in my experiences).

I believe the Majority of the shooter's prefer the Game over the Competition (I may be wrong, I often am).

 

CAS is popular (in my opinion) because it

A: Allows people to become young again, and play their childhood games.

B: Brings like-minded people together.

C: Allows people to demonstrate their skills.

 

There is a natural human nature to want to do well, whether it be a game or competition. So, it only makes sense that people will want to "adjust" the game to suit their strengths. But, it is a slippery slope when "friendly competition" begins to become purely

"competition", that is how/when the "game" is run outta town by the "competitors", and you end up right where you started, before there ever was a "game".

 

How is a good balance of game/competition maintained? I don't know.

What is a good balance? Again, I don't know.

What is a bad balance? That I do know. When the few (squeaky wheels) dictate for the many, the balance is off.

 

I like the SASS adage of: What would the Duke do? Which is to say: if you have to ask, the answer is no.

For me, I think "if Sergio Leone was filming this, how would he do it?"

As someone has already stated, the K.I.S.S. principle is time tested, and works.

If you want just competition, there are other venues out there for that, or start your own. If you want to play pretend and relive the (somewhat imaginary) past like in the old movies, go to a nearby CAS match.

 

Maybe the gamer's have already been overtaken by the competitor's, and I'm just a romantic hold-out... I sure hope not.

 

I'm just sayin...

Bones.

I really hate to pop your bubble but the so called Gamers make up about 5% of the shooter, so how would they take over if everybody else wasn't along for the ride.

 

KK

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

The shoots that generate the most participation and return business generally incorporate the same basic "match philosophy"...

 

The shoots that are not generating much participation and have problems bringing first-time participants back for another "Go-round" are again, following another basic "match philosophy".

 

Very basic market behavior here...nothing that hard to evaluate.

 

Cheers!

 

Phantom

[Matthew Duncan]

For the record...I'm just sayin...

Bones.

I agree with you 100%

[Matthew Duncan]

I really hate to pop your bubble but the so called Gamers make up about 5% of the shooter, so how would they take over if everybody else wasn't along for the ride.

 

KK

Remember a minority voted in the present president.

[Bramble Mountain Buzzard]

We had a retro match a couple of years ago at one of the clubs I frequent. Was not much fun. Some things from the past need to stay in the past. I'm with Deuce. Don't miss any of it!!!

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

Just got done with a VERY successful regional that had over 300 smiling faces coming away from this "big and close" match. Regardless if by some chance the game were to swing back to what it was when I started I would still play just as hard and as often as I do now. I would not walk away or take my ball and go home and turn my back on the game. Because in the end for me it's all about the folks that are playing rather than whats being played.

[Colt Walker 45]

+1 Deuce, I think that no matter how good the match might be the posse your shooting with can make or break it. If your shooting with a butch that every stage look like they just bit into something bad, your day is going to suck. If they are having fun your going to come away (most times,not every one) having enjoyed the shoot. As long as there are not glowing problems in stage design, it's the people that will make the fun, just my views on it. If your cowboy shooting with good people how can you be having fun!

[Bones McCracken SASS #46721]

I really hate to pop your bubble but the so called Gamers make up about 5% of the shooter, so how would they take over if everybody else wasn't along for the ride.

 

KK

I believe you have misread me.

In this situation, I am using the term gamers to refer to the people who want to PLAY rather than Compete.

As far as only being 5%, like Mathew Duncan said, a minority can force change upon the majority.