Guest Cinch, SASS#29433 Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 This Game is simply the extension of our the Childhood games that us older folks played. It was meant to be just that. The younger folks NEVER played those games to the degree that we did, so they are playing them now, and since they did NOT grow up with heavy influence of the Cowboy Genre, it stands to reason that their Fantasy could very well be a bit different than those of the older generation. Snakebite I think there should be an effort (obligation) to instruct the younger (all shooters) folks the correct way instead of letting them do it their way or interpret their fantasy. Part of the game should be dressing or looking the part as well as the function testing we do with guns. Part of the game should be to dress and act the part and also be to acquire marksmanship skills of some type and not just have the memory contest that we have devolved to because the targets are very close so the skill set has changed to who can remember the order the fastest. If you can imagine... Folks bellyaching over having to use a rifle scabbard, a rifle rack, or seated in a wagon. Having shot shells in a box shouldn't be a deal breaker anymore than some left hander having to move right for 11 stages ( I know some matches give the option of watching 20 people shoot the stage right to left and then one can then step up and go against the grain. This is helpful in that memory contest thing). Now I like to play the game however but some things I see are pushing it just a little and some things are probably not what was intended. These areas are where I believe some guidance could help... As a last, I often shake my head when someone posts how many folks attend their matches. They live next to 2,000,000 people and have 125 shooters at their monthly match so this gives them more validity than someone who lives next to 3000 people and has 15 shooters right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Jack Daniels,58780 Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 There is a club in my area that used to get 50+ shooters for a match. Then they decided that the targets needed to be moved out and other things done to slow down the fast shooters. The results have been that they now average 24 shooters per match, with that number on the decline. People need to remember that the matches they put on are for entertainment. If people do not have fun they will not keep comong back. Small targets, distant targets, silly things on the clock, and procedural traps and complicated shooting sequences are not fun and will not encourage people to return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 There is a club in my area that used to get 50+ shooters for a match. Then they decided that the targets needed to be moved out and other things done to slow down the fast shooters. The results have been that they now average 24 shooters per match, with that number on the decline. People need to remember that the matches they put on are for entertainment. If people do not have fun they will not keep comong back. Small targets, distant targets, silly things on the clock, and procedural traps and complicated shooting sequences are not fun and will not encourage people to return. I find it hard to believe that a club would do as you stated above you can not slow down fast shooters nore can you make slow shooters fast they are what they are and any given shoot just sayin mileage will vary oh well, just shoot while ya can nothing last forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy's creek Dan, SASS 73697 Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 If the term "Cowboy" action means non shooting actions on the clock, non consistent conditions for shooting (dice rolls to determine target sequences or someone "randomly" hiding your shotgun shells in a bag of beans), non shooting bonuses or penalties or physical requirements that are detrimental to the aging population of our game.... Then yes - some of the "Cowboy" has dwindled from cowboy action. And that is not necessarily a bad thing. On the clock home field advantages (stick the knife - hide the shotgun shells, etc) only serve to alienate your visiting shooters and games of chance (dice rolls, flip a card, etc.) change the events outcome from shooting to luck based. I think match directors can include "silliness" or "activities" to entertain shooters without components that change the shooting aspect of our game. A challenge off the clock can award someone entry into a drawing or just give a shooter the opportunity to ham it up. At our upcoming State Championship - shooters will have activities, some on the clock but stage related and with ZERO effect toward scoring. Things like flip the card table, push open the ticket booth door, swing open the cell door and escape... There will also be a "Prior to beep" challenge of throwing a pickaxe at the bad guy - if you manage to "stick" him - you earn a drawing ticket for a special drawing at the banquet. (Foam rubber pickaxe - a picture of a bad guy and plenty of velcro). This types of things along with handled props retain "Cowboy" flavor while preserving the integrity of the competition. These are the good old days. I feel sorry for those too stuck in the past to see that. +1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korupt Karl Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 I enjoy all kinds of shooting, but as someone said earlier....this is an entertainment sport. Month to month we need to put a smile on the faces of our customers. It has been shown time and time again by successful shoots that bigger and closer is what they want. As we get older, and most of the shooters are "older"....our vision and reflexes aren't what they once were. I for one do enjoy the B and C targets and I've always enjoyed hitting the target. The old days are still good and have their place at the "member fun shoots". For those that don't believe what we are saying....move your targets out farther and reduce their size and see what happens to attendance. There are too many "good" shoots out there and they all want to grow their business. Give the people what they want. If the responses from the recent Indiana State Shoot are any indication.....I know that we at PARADISE PASS are on the right track. Don't get me wrong....variety is still good and too much of the same thing gets boring. Vary distances and the size of targets, but make them hitable to the average shooter. Allow those that want to go fast....to do just that and maybe, just maybe we slow shooters can pick up some speed as well....I know that I have. KK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flat Iron Fred Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 After running a match for 8 years I don't have to tell anyone who's done it how difficult it is to come up with different and challenging stages month after month. In my first couple of years I did the cards, dice roll, carrying props type stages, but as I progressed and learned from a couple of highly successful clubs here in Ohio, I found that most shooter's regardless of age liked the bigger, closer targets. My match attendance went up as I took on this philosophy. In one of my last stages in the last year of running my match I did a stage that was 100% knock down targets, during the match and afterwards I found that the shooter's hated that stage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cinch, SASS#29433 Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 The old days are still good and have their place at the "member fun shoots". For those that don't believe what we are saying....move your targets out farther and reduce their size and see what happens to attendance. Oh Korupt one... Are there clubs that reduce the size of their targets? Or is that just the perspective of an 18" target going from 3 yards to 10... At our range we have full size bears, buffalo etc. and several times I have missed them 1st shot out of the holster. Shooters did not come in droves to shoot these giant targets however so some of the attendance stuff is based on location and economics and not just happy can't miss customers... Big and close is fun and if done correctly by shooters who are wearing their equipment kinda the way it was intended then the fact that the stages are simply memory tests with a premium placed on gun function (remember the need to straighten triggers on otherwise good guns) can be disregarded or not given much thought if the "cowboy" aspect can kinda remain intact. The good old days was not always adding chance or luck but was keeping the flavor of the game unique. Swinging doors, safe doors, moving the money, vertical staging once in awhile, 10-8-6 and even sometimes reading the shoot book. I do not ever remember one of these things deciding my placement in a match. I recently watched some videos of a big and close match where if you pause them and put a ruler on the handgun sights you will see that the ruler goes to the shooters chin. THIS IS FUN to be sure and there were numerous clean runs and satisfied customers!! I only posted on this because I do not agree that what has become the accepted practice makes the present the good old days! As far as shooting goes; with tables everywhere to stage long guns and not having to do any goofy negotiating a 30" bbl 73 (with straight trigger) should be the way to go with the bullet only having to be in free air for 72 inches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Jack Daniels,58780 Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 I find it hard to believe that a club would do as you stated above you can not slow down fast shooters nore can you make slow shooters fast they are what they are and any given shoot just sayin mileage will vary oh well, just shoot while ya can nothing last forever Thats just what they want to do, they can't get their minds wrapped around the fact that the only shooters that they really are affecting are the average and new shooters. The fast shooters are going to be fast regardless, because of many hours of practise and God given ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litl Red Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 The old days are still good and have their place at the "member fun shoots". For those that don't believe what we are saying....move your targets out farther and reduce their size and see what happens to attendance. Don't get me wrong....variety is still good and too much of the same thing gets boring. Vary distances and the size of targets, but make them hitable to the average shooter. Allow those that want to go fast....to do just that and maybe, just maybe we slow shooters can pick up some speed as well....I know that I have. KK When I got back in, there were 7 clubs holding monthly matches within 2 hours (one way) drive. That was spring of this year. Two of them no longer run cowboy matches. They both were Big/Close matches. In fact, they shot from halfway into their berms and were limited to close. There is way more to turnout than offering easy targets anybody who shows up can hit. And the idea that moving targets back or making them smaller would be the kiss of death is one hell of a spin. Sensible target mix makes far more sense than the belief that big/close is the only way to go for turnout. Those 7 clubs all ran big/close. There is more to shooting than speed, but none of those 7 offered anything but speed testing. 42 stages of speed tests really is too much of a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 I find it hard to believe that a club would do as you stated above you can not slow down fast shooters nore can you make slow shooters fast they are what they are and any given shoot just sayin The above is a widely held belief, but incorrect. I could EASILY write stages, choose specific steel and set those targets in a fashion which will slow down the fast shooters. I can turn high teens shooters into high 20 second shooters. Not that hard at all. The issue is not difficulty slowing the fast shooter - the issue is what you do to the average and beginning shooter when you slow the fast shooter. The stage that turns a teens shooter into a high 20 shooter will turn a high 20's shooter in a 40 second shooter and the 40 second shooter? Will likely never want to shoot again. Remember, we all shoot the same steel and stages, regardless of their placement. Any match set to slow the fast shooters will ruin the average shooters match and completely destroy the beginner. I recently had a match where a world champion asked me why we didn't set the pistol targets out to a distance that was "challenging" and I responded that by the time I reached a distance that was "challenging" to them - it would no longer be any fun for me and it would be disastrous for most. And somehow that didn't seem like a recipe for long term success. Conversely - Making slow shooters fast. Shooting quickly is a skill - but it is an acquired skill, a practiced skill. The shooter that has never experienced the environment that encourages speed will never acquire the skill or even understand how to practice for it. Writing matches that encourage a shooter (any shooter) to push to their limits is easy as well. Correct sequences, target choices and placement. Now again, we all shoot the same steel, sequences and placements - so the fast shooters will be faster on the speed oriented arrays as well. But if you shoot fast arrays - you will get faster. Even the slower shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ned Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 At the Senior Games here in St. George, the Dixie Desperados set a shotgun portion of a stage where we had to reach into a wash tub to find the shotgun shells. I'm not sure what difference it made for most of the shooters; but I found it a good change from always reaching to find the shells in the belt. I thought it was a fun and different way of shooting a stage. Ned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 At the Senior Games here in St. George, the Dixie Desperados set a shotgun portion of a stage where we had to reach into a wash tub to find the shotgun shells. I'm not sure what difference it made for most of the shooters; but I found it a good change from always reaching to find the shells in the belt. I thought it was a fun and different way of shooting a stage. Ned Dixie Bell and all the others who set shoots in St George do a fine job of writing and running matches. I am sure if they placed an element like that in the match, it was well thought out and equal for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korupt Karl Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 When I got back in, there were 7 clubs holding monthly matches within 2 hours (one way) drive. That was spring of this year. Two of them no longer run cowboy matches. They both were Big/Close matches. In fact, they shot from halfway into their berms and were limited to close. There is way more to turnout than offering easy targets anybody who shows up can hit. And the idea that moving targets back or making them smaller would be the kiss of death is one hell of a spin. Sensible target mix makes far more sense than the belief that big/close is the only way to go for turnout. Those 7 clubs all ran big/close. There is more to shooting than speed, but none of those 7 offered anything but speed testing. 42 stages of speed tests really is too much of a good thing. ....and I agree that there still has to be variety....there also has to be an atmosphere of "being felt welcome" when visitors and new shooters come to your club. You are right...big and close is not enough... creative scenario writing is plus. You can do everything right as far as the construction and location of a club, but if the right people aren't there and if you don't feel welcome, then you are going to stumble.] just my too scents kk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pit Bull Tex Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 The good old stages are the last ones I got to shoot.I have never found a bad stage.Some are better than others but they are all good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I thought I saw a bad stage once. However, when I shot it clean without a MDQ, it didn't seem so bad... I've seen many P traps; but, this was the first MDQ trap I've seen and everyone was so cautious that no one got a MDQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I find it hard to believe that in the year 2013 that a club would sudenly change policy and deliberatly move targets out far and on top of that start to write P traps in to their stage design that is just one mans opinion, mine someone is pullin my leg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Now again, we all shoot the same steel, sequences and placements - so the fast shooters will be faster on the speed oriented arrays as well. But if you shoot fast arrays - you will get faster. Even the slower shooters. yes but a slower shooter will always / still, be a slower shooter wont they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Jack Daniels,58780 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Mike, you may find the situation hard to believe but it has happened. All anyone can do now is hope the people in charge will eventually see that there way is not what the shooters want. If not it may not be long before the club fails. It is just a shame that a few misguided people can do so much harm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Mike, you may find the situation hard to believe but it has happened. All anyone can do now is hope the people in charge will eventually see that there way is not what the shooters want. If not it may not be long before the club fails. It is just a shame that a few misguided people can do so much harm. If a club has really done what you say, and changed that much, with the goal to slow down fast shooters than I can say I agree with ya they are very misguided folks you can never slow down the fast ones even though their times might be longer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Now again, we all shoot the same steel, sequences and placements - so the fast shooters will be faster on the speed oriented arrays as well. But if you shoot fast arrays - you will get faster. Even the slower shooters. yes but a slower shooter will always / still, be a slower shooter wont they? Maybe - maybe not. Speed breeds speed, and just like most other sports or games, weaker players tend to play "up" to their competition. When I began playing this game - I chased you. The game was a little different then - the gap between skilled shooter and mid packers was larger because of the sequences, target sizes and distances. It was not uncommon for a shooter to win a local match with 5 or more misses. If you were fast enough/ skilled enough cycling the gun, fast enough moving between positions, fast enough/ skilled enough transitioning between guns - You could literally miss fast enough to win. Can't do that anymore. As the targets have grown larger and moved closer to the firing line - it has bunched the shooters and tightened the scores. As stages dipped from 30 seconds to 20 to the teens - the margin for error has grown smaller. A 16 second stage is all well and good, but you throw just one in the dirt? Suddenly there are four shooters standing there that just shot the stage in 18. No one wins a local match with 5 misses anymore - you want a shot at overall locally - you'd best shoot clean or real close to it. Every aspect of the game speeds up when the arrays are faster - because every component becomes more important. When targets are this close - you cannot have a weak gun or a flaw in technique. Big and close improves shooters, improves competition and yes - makes slow shooters faster. It improved me. And if the pendulum ever does swing back to smaller, more distant and more challenging - I think knowing how to shoot fast will pay dividends then as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litl Red Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Targets don't have to be moved back AND made smaller both at the same time. I'm not sure any of the pards who saw this thread and realized they had observed the same deal, that everything was lots bigger and real close now, have pushed the idea the targets should be made smaller and moved back. They've mostly suggested it might be a good idea to bring in some more "aiming" than presently exists. There ain't no "laws of nature" that require BOTH and outlaw just moving or just using those old smaller ones without doing both. Jeez, nobody has said make everything really hard to hit. Adding some variety is the idea. BTW, including some targets that require some marksmanship would "improve" everyone exactly as including really easy targets improves our speed skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I, for one, would certainly like to see our rifle targets moved back a bit, mostly. A rifle target once in a while at 7-8 yds is ok, I guess, but doesn't make a good diet. I prefer them to be 12-15 out to 25, with an occasional target set out a little farther. What really solidified my position on this was the rear site argument where some said, truthfully,that we no longer need a rear site on our rifles. Possum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Targets don't have to be moved back AND made smaller both at the same time. I'm not sure any of the pards who saw this thread and realized they had observed the same deal, that everything was lots bigger and real close now, have pushed the idea the targets should be made smaller and moved back. They've mostly suggested it might be a good idea to bring in some more "aiming" than presently exists. There ain't no "laws of nature" that require BOTH and outlaw just moving or just using those old smaller ones without doing both. Jeez, nobody has said make everything really hard to hit. Adding some variety is the idea. BTW, including some targets that require some marksmanship would "improve" everyone exactly as including really easy targets improves our speed skills. Just like everyone you are entitled to your opinion. Conversation and debate keep things healthy for the most part. Now how are you planning to incorporate these ideas at your local club level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireball #7709 Life Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I'm with Creeker and Larsen.... Been shooting CAS since 94 and it is better NOW!!! (YMMV of course...) I started around then as well, even started and ran a shoot around then that did some of that stuff, all on the clock. I'll ride with Creeker, Larsen, Constable and Deuce these days, I like hanging out with people having fun. Putting that stuff on the clock kills the fun factor for too many on the possee and that drags down the fun factor for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cinch, SASS#29433 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I could EASILY write stages, choose specific steel and set those targets in a fashion which will slow down the fast shooters. Not that hard at all. We have gotten slightly off topic here and on the wire it's easy to do. All some poor joker has to say is "why don't we have to use sights" and the mean spirited answers immediately are: - You wanna destroy your club by moving targets far and away! - You just wanna slow down the fast shooters! - There is an oil well in Wyoming that killed everyone big enuff to die with H2S! (well maybe not that one) Now I am a shooter who has never seen all of my rifle brass in the air while making a rifle run and after all of these years I probably never will... Anyway interesting statements like slowing down the well practiced, hard working, skilled, fast shooter would destroy someone like me who never practices (sitting around clicking revolvers is boring) is something? It seems that if one wanted to bring the rear closer to the front you could negate some of the well practiced stuff without harming the 50 second shooter and all with having 3 yard handgun and 6 yard rifle targets: - Split revolvers and put at least10 feet between the point of discharge (not every stage funfighters) - Put 6 feet between revolver targets - Single tap as much as possible - put 9 feet between rifle targets - ban Lawrence Welk - place shotgun targets with 10-12 feet between them - vertical staging here and there - travel left to right now and then - don't allow practicing the stages prior to the shoot book reading or posting online - keep all interested parties off of the posse marshal walk thru - have shooters open safe and put money in with the hand that would otherwise be reaching for shot shells See ya can break up or negate some of that practiced transition stuff by allowing more space for them to occur. Short stroke this or that is negated by spacing and single tap. And a middle of the road duelist shooter doesn't give rank points (time) on revolver dump targets. These stages are clear, not necessarily a memory contest, no P traps, and give a shooter like me the opportunity to bring the fast shooters a half a second closer. Plus this doesn't ruin the match for my 50 second friends who folks say they set the match up for in the 1st place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I, for one, would certainly like to see our rifle targets moved back a bit, mostly. A rifle target once in a while at 7-8 yds is ok, I guess, but doesn't make a good diet. I prefer them to be 12-15 out to 25, with an occasional target set out a little farther. What really solidified my position on this was the rear site argument where some said, truthfully,that we no longer need a rear site on our rifles. Possum I agree on yer rifle target statement above why some folks keep saying (all targets) far back and small is just fear mongering I herd tht term on the tv box recently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litl Red Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Woah doagies... amazing how the idea that moving the present targets back some has been morphed into placing small targets in the next county. If the simple idea of moving the present targets back some so they actually demand something other than speed scares you so much that you think anyone is calling for "hard to hit" targets that're maybe 8" plates at 50 yards, you need to sit down and take a breath or two. Having shot in 3-4 matches a month for about 5 years back then, the tales of terror pouring out of this thread are amazing exaggerations. The smallest rifle targets I ever saw regularly were disc blades. You never heard such a beautiful sound. (You know, I think they were actually harrow blades.) And the farthest any targets were regularly placed were so close that if your sights were set for deer hunting, the bullets were going to hit a couple inches high. Don't like the "deer hunting sight" analogy? sorry... trying to put some perspective on it. Most things I've read about hunting deer with open sights suggest you sight in around fairly close. With that setting, a couple of inches high mean the target is CLOSE. Were there stages that had longer shots? A few, every so often, but no matches had more than one or two when they had 'em. And they always allowed resting the rifle. Just like today, most clubs setup their cowboy matches in the pistol berms. How deep are they nowadays? They weren't deeper back then. The sky isn't falling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I'm not saying CAS isn't more fun now, but to say moving the targets back some would not run new members off. In fact, I suspect most frown on 6yd rifle targets more than they would on 20 yd rifle targets. What were the targets like when u started CAS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 when I started, the targets were all within recomended SASS distances, and usually a decent mix up sure there was a few clubs, (usually new ones that had targets to far when they started up) but if the those range masters went to WR or EOT they learned alot on how to do stages better I have NO problem with moving the pistol targets closer, as there are alot of duelist and gunfighters shooting unsupported pistols at them shot gun and rifle targets have become a tadd bit close for my liking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones McCracken SASS #46721 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 When I got back in, there were 7 clubs holding monthly matches within 2 hours (one way) drive. That was spring of this year. Two of them no longer run cowboy matches. They both were Big/Close matches. In fact, they shot from halfway into their berms and were limited to close. There is way more to turnout than offering easy targets anybody who shows up can hit. And the idea that moving targets back or making them smaller would be the kiss of death is one hell of a spin. Sensible target mix makes far more sense than the belief that big/close is the only way to go for turnout. Those 7 clubs all ran big/close. There is more to shooting than speed, but none of those 7 offered anything but speed testing. 42 stages of speed tests really is too much of a good thing. + 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones McCracken SASS #46721 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Targets don't have to be moved back AND made smaller both at the same time. I'm not sure any of the pards who saw this thread and realized they had observed the same deal, that everything was lots bigger and real close now, have pushed the idea the targets should be made smaller and moved back. They've mostly suggested it might be a good idea to bring in some more "aiming" than presently exists. There ain't no "laws of nature" that require BOTH and outlaw just moving or just using those old smaller ones without doing both. Jeez, nobody has said make everything really hard to hit. Adding some variety is the idea. BTW, including some targets that require some marksmanship would "improve" everyone exactly as including really easy targets improves our speed skills. Thats what I told 'em... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korupt Karl Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 If you want big and close we know where to go....if we want games before the buzzer and after the buzzer or small distant targets we know where to go. A steady diet of IN YOUR FACE isn't good nor is a steady diet of small and far.....as others have said, a mix is good. I believe the targets should be hitable for all....I like big, but they don't all need to be 20"+, but the days of 12" targets are not my cup of tea and from what I'm reading there aren't many others either. There's room for all in this sport, that's why there are many clubs to choose from. I'm not going to convert you to my way of thinking nor you converting me to yours....and this forum sure isn't going to make change, but if the clubs are listening and many are they'll listen to what most are saying. When you look at the "big", "successful" shoots that are full year after year you have to ask what are they doing right. They have excellent facilities, great scenarios, "hitable" targets and the biggest thing is the friendly attitude displayed by the members. This combination is a winner and I'd like to think that this formula is the road to success for a struggling club. Who ever said that Big and Close isn't it.....is right. By itself it won't cut it. If you aren't excited about going to a club's next shoot, if you aren't anxious to see some friends from previous shoots, if you aren't thinking about how well you'll do, then find a club that does that for you. In the Midwest as I'm sure is true throughout.....we all know where those clubs are and we frequent them. Just my too scents KK PS: If I haven't mentioned it....Good Post Mathew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 THREE little bear > sin-drum two soft just right to hard straw house stick house brick house 000ps that was all bout swine fellers Many of us say "over and over and over" mix things up, distance size shape a tadd bit yes the high majority of us would agree that::::::: NO-ONE misses stick horses etc I do NOT miss stick horses either, or rubber gun bounced off the bar: precedures at a regioniol shoot I traveled thousands of miles to attend no one is sayin that they want that stuff back geeeeeese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Duncan Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 10 rifle 2 KD Each KD will release a swinging target. You have about 2 seconds before the target is obscured by a prop. Put one round on each KD and 4 on each swinging target Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 10 rifle 2 KD Each KD will release a swinging target. You have about 2 seconds before the target is obscured by a prop. Put one round on each KD and 4 on each swinging target Cool!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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