Remember the good old stages

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

Doing fun things off the clock, many don't mind, but if there's a bonus attached to accomplishing it, you'll get some that will get upset. That off the clock bonus may cost some in placement.

Seeing more and more request to not read the storylines and get on with stage instructions.

I was at one Annual up north last year, the Theme was in name only, no storylines, no story starting lines except saying "shooters ready".

We're changing, yes. But so are our skills in shooting evolving. MT

[Litl Red]

I really hate to pop your bubble but the so called Gamers make up about 5% of the shooter, so how would they take over if everybody else wasn't along for the ride.

 

KK

 

 

They won't take over, but right now they don't need to.

 

The GAME has specially developed short stroke rifles, something that didn't exist in the years SASS said they wanted to emulate.

The GAME has shotgun belts with paired shells in loops that wouldn't stand a trot or gallop, something the Cowboys really wouldn't have wanted.

The GAME has those belts worn in a rather silly looking way, a sight that isn't supported by pictures of the Cowboys we're supposed to be.

The GAME allows holsters built for quick draw. Yet the rules suggest otherwise.

The GAME allows wimp loads.

 

The gamers pushed for those things and got 'em. They didn't just drop from the sky. They were pushed for primarily by those who gamed them and won their acceptance.

 

The gamers already make the rules that matter to them. What do they have to fear from slower members "taking over"? Hell, some of them are busily making fun of clubs that have "too many" shooting categories. They even make fun of the other 95%. Nah, they don't have to take over.

[Snakebite]

You forgot to mention one very important thing about the Real Cowboys and the era that the Game is based around.... it is the most important thing, and the most over looked by everyone who talks about and compares the game with the era. It is the FACT that the Cowboys of the late 19th century were NOT playing a game that was based up the exploits of their romanticized and grossly exaggerated lives. The Game is based upon the further exaggerated and Fantasied realm of the Western Movie. An arena that had Cowboys and equipment as Phony as they come. This is NOT a Game that tries to accurately emulate the old west... it is a game that emulated the ROMANTICIZED Old West.. one which NEVER existed, and is a total figment of some writers or screen writer's imagination. This Game is simply the extension of our the Childhood games that us older folks played. It was meant to be just that. The younger folks NEVER played those games to the degree that we did, so they are playing them now, and since they did NOT grow up with heavy influence of the Cowboy Genre, it stands to reason that their Fantasy could very well be a bit different than those of the older generation.

 

Snakebite

[Litl Red]

This fantasy is governed by the game as interpreted from the SASS rules by the people who put on the matches.

 

And truth is, that's who decides from day to day what the fantasy is.

[Oddnews SASS# 24779]

You forgot to mention one very important thing about the Real Cowboys and the era that the Game is based around.... it is the most important thing, and the most over looked by everyone who talks about and compares the game with the era. It is the FACT that the Cowboys of the late 19th century were NOT playing a game that was based up the exploits of their romanticized and grossly exaggerated lives. The Game is based upon the further exaggerated and Fantasied realm of the Western Movie. An arena that had Cowboys and equipment as Phony as they come. This is NOT a Game that tries to accurately emulate the old west... it is a game that emulated the ROMANTICIZED Old West.. one which NEVER existed, and is a total figment of some writers or screen writer's imagination. This Game is simply the extension of our the Childhood games that us older folks played. It was meant to be just that. The younger folks NEVER played those games to the degree that we did, so they are playing them now, and since they did NOT grow up with heavy influence of the Cowboy Genre, it stands to reason that their Fantasy could very well be a bit different than those of the older generation.

 

Snakebite

 

Only when they quit using the "time machine" line. Until then, this statement doesn't mesh with was SASS says about itself.

[Snakebite]

What the WB say's about the Game, is that "Everyone's Fantasy is not the same". I can't tell you how many meetings that I have sat in with the WB and heard them make that exact comment. One of the Major things that SASS provides are guidelines for the Game which, among other things, help to direct those Fantasies and keep them within Due Bounds. Those guidelines are by no means always authentic to the true "Old West".

 

Snakebite

[Grizzly Adams 3674]

I certainly remember the "Good Old Days" (at least I think that I do )... I attended my first EOT in 93. It was a different game than we see today, but it was NOT a game that was completely full of stupid stuff. There were things like sitting on the horse while your pards pushed you down a track with you shooting left and right on the way down. You were Playing the game, like taking cover behind a well or a wagon or this or that... ACTUALLY play/acting out the scenario... for a short time you were actually the STAR in this "Mini-Western". Most of the whiz-bang stuff that I remember was more on a local level. Many areas had a particular match where they expected to find "Stupid" stuff, and they enjoyed it for what it was. It has always been the intention of this game to be a PLAY ACTION game. Being a shooting competition was a secondary aspect of the game. These roles have been reversed.... THAT is the difference in yesterday's game and today's game. We've got some really fast shooters in today's game, but I fear that many folks in today's game haven't got a clue what the game was meant to be or what it is about. That being said... I DO SUPPORT today's game, even though it has taken a different direction. I do, however, try to introduce just a little bit of yesterdays game into our local annual event every year. Nothing "Stupid", but a little bit of game playing.

 

Snakebite

+1. I remember it more as play action as well. The game was based on our childhood memories of Saturday matinee Heros and "playing cowboy" with the kids on the block. The difference was we got to use real guns! The shooting was secondary to the play action.

[Oddnews SASS# 24779]

What the WB say's about the Game, is that "Everyone's Fantasy is not the same". I can't tell you how many meetings that I have sat in with the WB and heard them make that exact comment. One of the Major things that SASS provides are guidelines for the Game which, among other things, help to direct those Fantasies and keep them within Due Bounds. Those guidelines are by no means always authentic to the true "Old West".

 

Snakebite

 

In my fantasy, I have an AK-47, just like in the Harry Turtledove book, "Guns of the South." Where's my category?

[Lawdawg Star, SASS # 35147]

15 years ago I was introduced to CAS by a good friend, well More or Less..LOL. I shot for a couple of years then work took me away from the sport completely, I had not shot a match or even watched until a few months ago. My new bride saw CAS on TV and told me it looked like "FUN" and she would like to try it, when I told her I had done it before and really enjoyed it....well we were off to the gun shop and maxing out credit cards! within a few weeks we were ready to hit the trail.......when we did...WHOAAA!!!!! What happened to the game I used to play? The targets got HUGE and they are close enough to spit on!!! Where is that dang rabbit we all had to throw in the pot before we shot? The ammo is so quiet now we don't need any hearing protection!! You mean we only move 3 ft to the doorway from the window?, I remember shooting a match where you had to move 40ft to the mercantile and buy your shotgun shells, then go back and shoot. Short stroke your what!!??? never heard of such....I don't ever remember anyone complaining about the silly little games we encountered during a match...we called it "spirit of the game" back then.

 

Yes my bride and I are shooting and having a great time, but the game has changed in many ways, but heck what hasn't? Nothing great lasts forever, so enjoy it Pard's........

[Snakebite]

In my fantasy, I have an AK-47, just like in the Harry Turtledove book, "Guns of the South." Where's my category?

OD.. take a little baking soda with water and a tablespoon of vinegar... you'll feel much better.

 

Snakebite

[Madd Mike #8595]

aint we a funny bunch

a feller says sum-thin like "old stages"

and look at us, 4 pages now

I like old history, old music, old chevy trucks, it dont mean that I dont live in the now, listen to new music and drive newer stuff

 

geeeeese folks

here is an old song, redone in 2005

 

I like em both

have fun if you dare

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

In my fantasy, I have an AK-47, just like in the Harry Turtledove book, "Guns of the South." Where's my category?

 

With all due respect - You don't seem to have ANY fantasy of your own beyond attempting to force your vision on others.

EVERY post you makes seems to be one complaint after another about how the game is not being played to your standards.

 

You don't like the equipment OTHER shooters use - even tho it does not affect you one whit.

You don't like the way the game is promoted - even tho it does not affect you one whit.

 

You have been challenged numerous times to stand up - involve yourself and help create or facilitate the game as you wish this one to be.

I have found when you put forth the effort - folks give more weight to your input.

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

I for One can't see why Any Cowboy would object to starting a stage seated in a Saddle rifle in hand (those that have Medical reasons are excempt) shoot 3 rifle targets (9 rounds) in a Triple-Tap sweep , hand-off rifle (open & empty) dismount move to wagon ,retreave loaded pistols from center of wagon, shoot 5 targets in a double tap sweep from either end , holster empty guns as needed (gunfighters & double duelists may have a Loaded gun in each hand ) move to the front of the wagon retreive shotgun staged on seat and knock-down 4 targets , 2 on the left and 2 on the right (any order) ....

The saddle is tightly cinched to a sturdy saddle rack ...to allow for little if any movement ,,,,

 

 

Or starting a stage by making an attempt to rope a rabbit 10 feet in front of you , ,,, Folks cheer if you get him and laugh if you don't ,,, Then the timmer starts you with a BEEP ....

 

Or starting a stage but indcating you are ready by tossing a stick of dynomite in an attempt to get it in the Well ( if you get it in the Well your name goes in the draw for a extra prize) the TO pushes the button to start the timmer when the dynomite leaves your hand .......

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

I for One can't see why Any Cowboy would object to starting a stage seated in a Saddle rifle in hand (those that have Medical reasons are excempt) shoot 3 rifle targets (9 rounds) in a Triple-Tap sweep , hand-off rifle (open & empty) dismount move to wagon ,retreave loaded pistols from center of wagon, shoot 5 targets in a double tap sweep from either end , holster empty guns as needed (gunfighters & double duelists may have a Loaded gun in each hand ) move to the front of the wagon retreive shotgun staged on seat and knock-down 4 targets , 2 on the left and 2 on the right (any order) ....

The saddle is tightly cinched to a sturdy saddle rack ...to allow for little if any movement ,,,,

 

 

Or starting a stage by making an attempt to rope a rabbit 10 feet in front of you , ,,, Folks cheer if you get him and laugh if you don't ,,, Then the timmer starts you with a BEEP ....

 

Or starting a stage but indcating you are ready by tossing a stick of dynomite in an attempt to get it in the Well ( if you get it in the Well your name goes in the draw for a extra prize) the TO pushes the button to start the timmer when the dynomite leaves your hand .......

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

Jabez - I will be the first to admit that I don't always agree with your posts.

But this one is spot on.

The ONLY folks that seem to object to the type of things you list here are the shooters that insist that the game isn't "fun" unless the element of chance is present in the scoring or the non shooting event affects the score.

The so called gamers have zero issue with "Fun" or "Silliness" or "Cowboy action" - as long as the integrity of the competition aspect can be kept intact.

 

I believe both game and competition should co exist - that does not mean they have to implemented at the same time.

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

Creeker;

These are stages I have written and shot and Like ....

You might like them too....

 

I think where we differ ,,,, mostly is In how we choose to play the game ,,, I feel that as long as we both stay with-in the rules of the Game there SHOULD be room for both....

 

Jabez Cowboy

[Madd Mike #8595]

yup

the old style "ropein a rabbit as a starting position under the clock are gone, and good rid-ence"

but

what is wrong with starting position of holding a rope in two hand, at the beep comence ta shootin yer first firearem - weapon - gun,

instead of so many stages starting with long guns safely pointed down range

[Blastmaster]

I got the privelage to shoot four stages this year (to date) that required vertical staging of long gun(s). A single cartidge reload of pistol(s)/rifle. And not all on the same stage. You don't see that much any more and rather miss it.

 

I agree, skip the bow-arrow, roping, hatchet throw, on the clock.

 

 

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

Dog; I think you might have hit on it "They struggle with attendance"....In April you had 12 shooters and that's fine as they want to shoot that style. Our monthly's run between mid 40 to mid 50's and we have quit doing the crazy stuff after the beep. I'm still old school in that I don't mind an ocassional variance, but at State and above it doesn't belong.

 

As Doc Molar and so many have said...your customers will talk with their feet. It is an entertainment sport. On a side note....if a club is going to do an "Iron man" stage or use derringers,a staged 22 pistol, etc. Post it ahead of time and give people a heads up.

 

Just my too scents.

 

KK

 

 

The so-called (erroneously, I maintain) bullseye shoot I was referencing is not a SASS club and has no website and definitely had less than 12 shooters in April. Maybe half that. We shot once with 3 and had a big good time. You must have been looking at the Canadian River Regulators. 12 is good there for a monthly. Used to have more like 3 dozen than 1. Then the new regime took over several years ago and moved all the rifle targets to this side of the creek. Attendance will zoom they assured us little people who were not consulted and may have had the temerity to protest. Instead attendance has continued the downward slide. In fairness it had been going down for years before every stage suddenly HAD to be big and close. So that was not the main reason for the slide. The economy is part of it. Another thing is that is harder and harder these days to get humans to participate in ANYthing.

 

I still maintain and will maintain to my dying breath NO rifle target should be inside 20 yards. And no one or nothing is gonna convince me otherwise.

[Oddnews SASS# 24779]

OD.. take a little baking soda with water and a tablespoon of vinegar... you'll feel much better.

 

Snakebite

 

I feel fine. I felt fine to begin with. Just pointing out the obvious.

[Oddnews SASS# 24779]

 

With all due respect - You don't seem to have ANY fantasy of your own beyond attempting to force your vision on others.

EVERY post you makes seems to be one complaint after another about how the game is not being played to your standards.

 

You don't like the equipment OTHER shooters use - even tho it does not affect you one whit.

You don't like the way the game is promoted - even tho it does not affect you one whit.

 

You have been challenged numerous times to stand up - involve yourself and help create or facilitate the game as you wish this one to be.

I have found when you put forth the effort - folks give more weight to your input.

 

Simply untrue -- I've never tried to force my "vision" on others. I simply don't want to be forced to shoot alongside people with short-stroked weapons that didn't exist in the Old West. As the sport is currently organized, such so-called western arms are allowed in all categories.

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

Simply untrue -- I've never tried to force my "vision" on others. I simply don't want to be forced to shoot alongside people with short-stroked weapons that didn't exist in the Old West. As the sport is currently organized, such so-called western arms are allowed in all categories.

Howdy Oddnews, in B-Western you can't use the Win 73, so no short strokes there. Or you can build your own category from the ground up, just like we did FCGF, Pale Rider, Outlaw and Jose Wales. None of these are SASS approved categories, however they are all allowed (exception Outlaw at some matches) in every local, state and regional match I've been to. All you really have to do is find a couple of like minded people and start shooting....period. You've had plenty of offers by ladies and gents here on the wire to help you in your efforts. Ball is in your court. Good Luck

 

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[Korupt Karl]

Simply untrue -- I've never tried to force my "vision" on others. I simply don't want to be forced to shoot alongside people with short-stroked weapons that didn't exist in the Old West. As the sport is currently organized, such so-called western arms are allowed in all categories.

You might want to look into NCOWS which does not allow short strokes, etc. Sounds like you cup of tea....just sayin.

 

KK

[Korupt Karl]

You might want to look into NCOWS which does not allow short strokes, etc. Sounds like you cup of tea....just sayin.

 

KK

Odd News....help me out here. Do you currently shoot?....you don't appear on scores for your club in the past year....just wondering. Have you given up shooting because of short strokes?

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

Simply untrue -- I've never tried to force my "vision" on others. I simply don't want to be forced to shoot alongside people with short-stroked weapons that didn't exist in the Old West. As the sport is currently organized, such so-called western arms are allowed in all categories.

 

Short strokes...

Your western fantasy is hopelessly and irrevocably destroyed by 3/4" of an inch of stroke.

 

Not gun carts - Not modern shooting glasses - Not the Ford F150s, Dodge Rams and Chevy Silverados filling the parking lot.

Not modern quickdraw gun leather - Not bad guys shaped like rectangles, constructed of steel - Not regular use of soap and basic hygiene.

Not the range absence of hard liquor and warm beer - Not the missing of steaming piles of horse poop

Not the presence of ice cold bottled water - Not the white plastic boxes of first aid equipment and supplies

Not the spray on sunscreen - Not the electronic timers and score sheets - Not the video recorders and YouTube...

 

It is simply 3/4" of an inch of stroke that ruins it for you.

Not since my honeymoon have short strokes so ruined an experience for someone.

 

Lastly about your alias. I am assuming Don Quixote was taken?

[Madd Mike #8595]

I still maintain and will maintain to my dying breath NO rifle target should be inside 20 yards. And no one or nothing is gonna convince me otherwise.

I agree 101%

I recently attended a monthly CAS shoot, all 6 stages, the shotgun targets were 21 feet or less, and folks were doing make up shots geeese

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

I hereby invoke the 1884 Dead Horse Law.....

[Utah Bob #35998]

Ho Macklin! Many opinions here. But no whisky.

 

We go now.

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

Maybe we should just have a spelling contest.

[Madd Mike #8595]

eiei-0

[Korupt Karl]

Dad Nabit

[Oddnews SASS# 24779]

Odd News....help me out here. Do you currently shoot?....you don't appear on scores for your club in the past year....just wondering. Have you given up shooting because of short strokes?

 

I shot all last season, but only made one match this summer -- but not at the range listed as my home club. I shoot on the Iowa/Illinois border now, but still consider the Mountain Oyster Gang to be my home club. No, I haven't given up shooting because of short strokes.

[Kid Raven]

I agree with Lou...there has got to be fun, but as she said not doing something that could determine the outcome. I think starting lines are cool and I use them on every scenario I write. Often, I leave a blank i.e. "I can't stand_____________" or "I'd like to see _________hogtied and in jail"...or something like that....if a shooter can't remember the line I generally say it is "Korupt Karl is my hero" and that usually prompts them to elaborate on that and it generally doesn't come out in my favor...lol.

 

KK

We had a stage this year where the line was "Watch me do this thing".........I was shooting 3/4s the way through the posse and stepped up to the firing line and said, "Hold my beer and watch this".....I think everyone who heard me laughed...

[Matthew Duncan]

Today it was setting on igor the horse, throw the lasso around the steer

 

Another stage 2 down knock threw flying apples ( no I didn't).

[Kiowa Kid, SASS #69870L]

They won't take over, but right now they don't need to.

 

The GAME has specially developed short stroke rifles, something that didn't exist in the years SASS said they wanted to emulate.

The GAME has shotgun belts with paired shells in loops that wouldn't stand a trot or gallop, something the Cowboys really wouldn't have wanted.

The GAME has those belts worn in a rather silly looking way, a sight that isn't supported by pictures of the Cowboys we're supposed to be.

The GAME allows holsters built for quick draw. Yet the rules suggest otherwise.

The GAME allows wimp loads.

 

The gamers pushed for those things and got 'em. They didn't just drop from the sky. They were pushed for primarily by those who gamed them and won their acceptance.

 

The gamers already make the rules that matter to them. What do they have to fear from slower members "taking over"? Hell, some of them are busily making fun of clubs that have "too many" shooting categories. They even make fun of the other 95%. Nah, they don't have to take over.

Sir you are wrong in your assumptions, I suggest you get out and shoot more other than your local clubs.

 

KK

[Madd Mike #8595]

good old stages have good points and bad points

no doubt

lets take the good points that did not affect scoring per say

lets mix em in

 

start holding a rope is fine

last cowboy match i did a couple weeks ago

50% stages started with long guns pointed down range

 

not a one holding anything but a gun,

sure hands on table, and hands at side

 

no biggie

just an idea