Scary Indian Dude Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 OK this Saturday we had a shooter who has been shooting for awhile and is very safe. He was on his way to the loading table from his cart and his holster broke and the pistol in the holster hit the ground. What is the call? Thanks SID Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 No call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowdy Buckshot Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Hi SID, No call, the rule applies between the loading table and the unloading table only. hope this helps, Rowdy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 OK this Saturday we had a shooter who has been shooting for awhile and is very safe. He was on his way to the loading table from his cart and his holster broke and the pistol in the holster hit the ground. What is the call? Thanks SID 23. Any unloaded gun dropped during a stage will result in Stage Disqualification. Dropped unloaded guns away from the line will be a no call. Firing line – From first firearm placed on the loading table until all firearms are confirmed as cleared at the unloading table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Indian Dude Posted December 3, 2012 Author Share Posted December 3, 2012 Thanks PWB. Thats what I told them but they would not listen and I could not find it quick enough to over rule it in the rules. They gave him a SDQ. I'm going to print this out and use it to educate some people. The bad part about all this is, the guy is an older gent with Parkinson's, he shakes when he shoots, he's not a top shooter he just shoots for the fun. He felt bad about dropping his gun so he went home he was not mad he just felt embarrassed. So he got a SDQ and 2 DNF's. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Thanks PWB. Thats what I told them but they would not listen and I could not find it quick enough to over rule it in the rules. They gave him a SDQ. I'm going to print this out and use it to educate some people. Thanks. You're welcome! Page refs to those quoted regs from the RO1 are pp. 19 & 29. BTW - If the revolver remained in the holster when it hit the dirt, it isn't even considered a "dropped firearm". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 he's not a top shooter he just shoots for the fun. Thanks. I get tired of people saying that. IT DON'T MATTER. The rules are the same for top shooter. (Who by the way is there for fun also.) As it is for the slowest person in SASS. Sorry to hear about his Parkinsons, and that he left. Hope he comes back, and that someone calls him to let him know that the call was wrong. AND, that even the top shooters have, and will drop guns. And have done so at the biggest matches in SASS. If it was in charge of the club. I would invite him back with a free match the next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 If it was in charge of the club. I would invite him back with a free match the next time. Darn good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Darn good idea. Agreed. Dang, did I really just agree with Philly Slim? What is the world coming to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Hey GRIZ, I think you thought of it first. Its just that Phily has ESP and likes to steal other good ideas from unsuspecting Pards. Right now, he's reading our minds as to what would be a good Christmas present. THEN, he turns around and puts that item on his wish list. Thats how it works. ..........Widder (I have ESP also.....I'm a JEDI) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I get tired of people saying that. IT DON'T MATTER. The rules are the same for top shooter. (Who by the way is there for fun also.) As it is for the slowest person in SASS. Sorry to hear about his Parkinsons, and that he left. Hope he comes back, and that someone calls him to let him know that the call was wrong. AND, that even the top shooters have, and will drop guns. And have done so at the biggest matches in SASS. If it was in charge of the club. I would invite him back with a free match the next time. Right on Al on all points! Darn good idea. Agreed. Dang, did I really just agree with Philly Slim? What is the world coming to? :D/> Me too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Hey GRIZ, I think you thought of it first. Its just that Phily has ESP and likes to steal other good ideas from unsuspecting Pards. Right now, he's reading our minds as to what would be a good Christmas present. THEN, he turns around and puts that item on his wish list. Thats how it works. ..........Widder (I have ESP also.....I'm a JEDI) Widder....I've heared that a good pill roller can give ya sumpthin for that dreaded ESP malady ya got Kajun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Did the muzzle sweep anyone during all this? Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Did the muzzle sweep anyone during all this? Fillmore Don't know. Don't matter as far as what the call should have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Hacker, #60477 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 So... the way the rule is written, if you clear your SG, Clear your rifle, clear pistol 1 and drop it while reholstering, it is a SDQ. But... if you holster it properly and then clear pistol 2 and drop Pistol#2 while reholstering, no call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 So... the way the rule is written, if you clear your SG, Clear your rifle, clear pistol 1 and drop it while reholstering, it is a SDQ. But... if you holster it properly and then clear pistol 2 and drop Pistol#2 while reholstering, no call. YES. A line had to be drawn somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Indian Dude Posted December 3, 2012 Author Share Posted December 3, 2012 Sorry, Anvil Al if I offended you with my comment. You top shooters need to lighten up. :lol:/> I was trying to make the point that he only shoots local monthly match's and has never even been to a big shoot. His only goal is to shoot a clean match, which for him would be a great accomplishment, cause if you watch him shoot his head is moving one way and his hands are shakey another, but some how he manages to hit the target. :)/>/> He told me he only had 1 miss for the day. The holster fell off the belt and hit the ground, the gun stayed in the holster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Indian Dude Posted December 3, 2012 Author Share Posted December 3, 2012 You're welcome! Page refs to those quoted regs from the RO1 are pp. 19 & 29. BTW - If the revolver remained in the holster when the belt broke & hit the dirt, it isn't even considered a "dropped firearm". Is that even on the line between the tables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Is that even on the line between the tables. YES...that even includes while the shooter is engaging the stage...whether loaded or unloaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 2. Muzzle direction is important between, before, during, and after shooting a stage. A muzzle must not be allowed to sweep the other participants at any time. Long guns shall have their actions open with chambers and magazines empty and muzzles pointed in a safe direction when transported at a match.A holstered revolver (loaded or empty) with the hammer fully down on an empty chamber or expended case is considered safe and may not be interpreted as sweeping another shooter while safely secured in the holster. Failure to manage safe muzzle direction is grounds for disqualification from the stage, and for repeated offenses, from the match. SHB p.21 / RO1 p.15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el Gato Gordo - SASS #15162 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 A very educational thread! Thanks to all! eGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Pat Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 We had a gun cart traffic jam at the loading table years ago, I went to step backwards fell over a gun cart, knocked it over and spilled all the owners equipment and long guns on the ground...since nothing had been loaded, we straightened everything back up and went on...now I leave more room around my cart, irish Pat, sass 19486 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 OK, I was in a hurry when I read this originally. I didn't see the part where the gun stayed in the holster. If the holster broke and the gun fell from the holster, sweeping someone as it fell or after it landed would be a factor, correct? Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 OK, I was in a hurry when I read this originally. I didn't see the part where the gun stayed in the holster. If the holster broke and the gun fell from the holster, sweeping someone as it fell or after it landed would be a factor, correct? Fillmore No. Still a no call. See PaleWolf's post #4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Hands SASS #8247 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I saw a lady top shooter approach a stage at the John Wayne shoot at the coast and her holster fell off. Yep, she must have been going to Jennie Craig or something because she took a step and it dropped around her ankles with both guns still in the holsters. She was allowed to pull it up and continue the stage without anything being said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuco Forsyth #72674 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Also, them fancy belt buckles will also break when you least expect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painted Filly Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Scary, I will see if I have a number for him to call and offer him a free shoot. He is very sweet guy. Painted Filly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 OK, I was in a hurry when I read this originally. I didn't see the part where the gun stayed in the holster. If the holster broke and the gun fell from the holster, sweeping someone as it fell or after it landed would be a factor, correct? Fillmore PWB? Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Ramrod Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 PWB? Fillmore Actually the OP stated he was away from the line, i.e. back at his cart, and it gave way. If it's not on the line, from the loading table to the unloading table, it's no call regardless of the orientation of the muzzle. Also, as stated in the rules, an unloaded or loaded gun can't be deemed to sweep anyone as long as it is in a holster. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Guess he don't believe me. Even after I tried to send him back to PaleWolfs post #4 where PaleWolf quoted the rule. Dropped unloaded gun away from the line is a no call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Generally speaking...UNloaded firearms (which is the assumed condition of ALL firearms "off the firing line") are not considered "sweeping" anyone if not "in hand". If a firearm is dropped off the line, care should be taken to not sweep anyone with the muzzle while recovering it. Consider the example in post #22 of a cart full of guns tipping over in the middle of a crowded stage area (or on the pathway between stages). They would fall under the NO CALL rule for "dropped unloaded guns away from the firing line" regardless of whether anyone was "swept" while they were in the act of falling. Firearms (unloaded or not) ON the FIRING LINE (as defined in the "Glossary of Terms") that are dropped, knocked over, spun around on a table, or slip & fall ARE subject to the "sweeping" and/or 170º rules and penalties...depending on the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Look at the original post. It was only a "drooped" pistol, never dropped... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Guess he don't believe me. Even after I tried to send him back to PaleWolfs post #4 where PaleWolf quoted the rule. Dropped unloaded gun away from the line is a no call. It's not that I don't trust you. Post #4 didn't tackle the sweeping aspect of my question. Nor did you. PWB DID clarify thay a dropped, unloaded gun away from the firing line COULD result in a SDQ if the retrieval is handled poorly. Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Look at the original post. It was only a "drooped" pistol, never dropped... :D/> :D/> :D/> :lol:/> Maybe it was tired... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sloe Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 It's not that I don't trust you. Post #4 didn't tackle the sweeping aspect of my question. Nor did you. PWB DID clarify thay a dropped, unloaded gun away from the firing line COULD result in a SDQ if the retrieval is handled poorly. Fillmore Don't read something into this that is not written. PWB stated that care should be taken when recovering the weapons. That's alot different than a SDQ. Take care, Barry Sloe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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