Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 There is just no sanctioning body in the history of sports to have (2) Nationals or (2) World Championships. Get real... if you want to be the Nat'l Champion then you go to the National Championships. Now we gotta ask "which National Champ are ya? Yankee or True West?" SASS needs to spend their time and money pumping up every single State, REgional, National and World event not making more of them like more categories. Sorry, don't mean to stand on anyone's neck, but this is as dumb as two steering wheels in a sports car and will work about as well as a soup sandwich. Let's change all the REGIONALS into NATIONALS so every REGION has a NATIONAL champion. Go ahead make more categories, and what the heck, let's have a Europe World and a US World and throw in an Asian World if you can get more planets let me know. Did the same person think of age- based categories? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 The last to know is apparently those of us on the Winter Range Board. There was absolutely no discusion with the WR Board or warning of this decision. We learned of it here on the SASS Wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 OK. Drop the National from it altogether. Eastern Championship and Western Championship. Think it's great for those out east. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Annie SASS #37063 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 So do they plan to split the country into two halves and you have to attend your assigned "National" championship? Similar to going to your assigned Regional? WOW! Just my humble opinion, which we all know isn't worth much , but I think it would have been polite for them to explain this to the WR Board ahead of the announcement at The Mason Dixon Stampede. Something about "the cowboy way??" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 The last to know is apparently those of us on the Winter Range Board. There was absolutely no discusion with the WR Board or warning of this decision. We learned of it here on the SASS Wire. If this wasn't such a runnin' lesson on how to shoot oneself it would be a comedy. Sorry for the whole WR Board and the Territorial Roughriders. This will be a confusing, irritating, divisive mess for 2-3 years. Gee, if it would be such a BOON for SASS why didn't they call it the Eastern WORLD Championships? AA is right...Eastern, Western then the sanction could come together for a National and World... wish there was actually planning instead of placating going on here. There have probably been worse franchise decisions made, but you'd have to really think hard of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Rig a Tony , #54423 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 So you guys are all excited!!! how many sports do you know have two national championship sites? It was brought up in a previous post what about the 2013 contract SASS signed with Winter Range? Do they void that? What does a person have to do win both matchs or his category at both matchs to be the National Champion? These and a few other questions should have been answered before an annoucement. Having an east and west makes no sense at all, it brings nothing but confusion to our sport. You have a choice to travel or not to travel. Simple as that. Yes it is expensive,if you want to compete, then you spend the time and money. . Thurmont puts on a teriffic match but not for 600 or 700 shooters, of all the places I have been Ben Avery is the only one that can handle those kinds of numbers. I can understand rewarding a club for consistant performance but not by spliting OUR National Championship. What do you give those other regionals that have been consistantly successful? What's next two World Championships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taquila Tab, Sass #25048 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Thurmont puts on a teriffic match but not for 600 or 700 shooters, of all the places I have been Ben Avery is the only one that can handle those kinds of numbers. I have to disagree with you on this one point. Sparta can handle 600 or 700 shooters easily. With 1,000 campsites and paved parking for 10,000 vehicles it is probably the only range in the country that can. They do manage to handle 12,000 trap shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 The last to know is apparently those of us on the Winter Range Board. There was absolutely no discusion with the WR Board or warning of this decision. We learned of it here on the SASS Wire. That is just plain WRONG! Even if the WB's minds were made up, the WRB should have heard about it before seeing it on the Wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I have to disagree with you on this one point. Sparta can handle 600 or 700 shooters easily. With 1,000 campsites and paved parking for 10,000 vehicles it is probably the only range in the country that can. They do manage to handle 12,000 trap shooters. Indeed! If they want to centralize the Nationals, Sparta would be an excellent choice. IMO, one country, one National match! Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiowa Kid, SASS #69870L Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Howdy, whether it's WR or two Nationals East or West, isn't the whole idea to have these shoots prior to EOT so the Winners from the National or Nationals get their free entries can show up for EOT? If that holds true the the Only National prior to EOT will be WR. I'm guessing the split will not take effect until after WR, because from their Website the New Eastern National isn't until the first week in Oct 2013 well after EOT. Just my thoughts KK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 No disrespect to Thurmont, but splitting the national championship is probably the dumbest move I've seen yet. I don't care where it is (my backyard included). This is just another move to water down the sport. Every kid makes the soccer team. If you want to make a run at being a world champion you have to show up to EOT. This will NOT improve the game. It will divide it. I am not involved with Winter Range but have been to six in a row now and am going back for 2013. Those good folks deserved to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamrock Sadie Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Which opinion poll was listened to that helped make this decision? SASS should have several regionals, ONLY 1 National, and ONLY 1 World. Shooters will make the trip if they want to be a National or World champion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Although I like the Eastern Championship and the Western Championship (i would drop the national part) It was in bad taste to not atleast talk with the folks at WR. And by the way. Some say nobody else has ever split it like that before. Not really true. I seem to remember the NCHA use to have a Eastern, Western Championship. It worked pretty good. But do think that talking to the folks at WR AND getting details worked out BEFORE you let the cat out of the bag was in order. Sounds a little to rushed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 So does SASS need to change their home page from: Join the thousands of Old West aficionados who have discovered the fast growing sport of Cowboy Action Shooting! Members receive a numbered shooters badge, a registered alias, access to exclusive shooting events, an annual subscription to The Cowboy Chronicle and much more! to Join the thousands of Old West/East aficionados who have discovered the fast growing sport of Cowboy Action Shooting! Members receive a numbered shooters badge, a registered alias, access to exclusive shooting events, an annual subscription to The Cowboy Chronicle and much more! Just wondering... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Wolf , SASS# 29424L Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 There is just no sanctioning body in the history of sports to have (2) Nationals or (2) World Championships. Get real... if you want to be the Nat'l Champion then you go to the National Championships. Now we gotta ask "which National Champ are ya? Yankee or True West?" SASS needs to spend their time and money pumping up every single State, REgional, National and World event not making more of them like more categories. Sorry, don't mean to stand on anyone's neck, but this is as dumb as two steering wheels in a sports car and will work about as well as a soup sandwich. Let's change all the REGIONALS into NATIONALS so every REGION has a NATIONAL champion. Go ahead make more categories, and what the heck, let's have a Europe World and a US World and throw in an Asian World if you can get more planets let me know. Did the same person think of age- based categories? Brother King, I agree with you and hope SASS reconsiders this. We have a great thing going the way it is. Sure it could use a little twicking but this is not the answer. They should look at who is getting stepped on in the process also. Help out the regionals, state and open matches. Blue Wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Sgt. Jake McCandless #3368 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 The last to know is apparently those of us on the Winter Range Board. There was absolutely no discusion with the WR Board or warning of this decision. We learned of it here on the SASS Wire. I don't understand how SASS keeps putting the wagon in front of the horses but this ain't the first time they have done it.Any one remember the EOT move from Ca. to N.M.,that and they never seem to get out in front of changes. Adios Sgt. Jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Comments on Facebook are not too kind towards SASS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang It Dan 13202 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 This is not going to win me any friends, but here goes...... Finally!! Now, I would have rather seen a traveling National match but it was obviously not going to happen so this is the next (ok, maybe not the "best") thing. How many years have the folks in this part of the country been expected to shut up and spend the money and time to travel to WR? It was time consuming, expensive and we don't necessarily shoot our best in the high-altitude and dusty conditions (especially when you are use to 80% humidity at 150' above sea level). It will be nice to be able to get in my TRUCK and DRIVE to The East Coast Championship in under 24 hours and without having to take 10 days to get it done. I am in no way knocking WR. They have a great match and it is without a doubt the best thing going right now but it is very hard for us East Coast folk to attend on a regular basis. So I would agree that this is an unusual move but I am glad to see it happen. Dang It Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 This is not going to win me any friends, but here goes...... Finally!! Now, I would have rather seen a traveling National match but it was obviously not going to happen so this is the next (ok, maybe not the "best") thing. How many years have the folks in this part of the country been expected to shut up and spend the money and time to travel to WR? It was time consuming, expensive and we don't necessarily shoot our best in the high-altitude and dusty conditions (especially when you are use to 80% humidity at 150' above sea level). It will be nice to be able to get in my TRUCK and DRIVE to The East Coast Championship in under 24 hours and without having to take 10 days to get it done. I am in no way knocking WR. They have a great match and it is without a doubt the best thing going right now but it is very hard for us East Coast folk to attend on a regular basis. So I would agree that this is an unusual move but I am glad to see it happen. Dang It Alternating venues for a single national championship makes WAY more sense than dual nationals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. John Campbell, SASS #58165 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 For all of you from the West Coast, or the Western US, think for a moment of what it entails for those of us who live on the East Coast to attend Winter Range. First, should we drive in, or should we fly in? If we drive, it takes three days to drive to Arizona from the East coast (it can be done in two if you gonzo drive... did it all the time when I was stationed in Arizona). So, in addition to the match dates, add 6 extra days, so plan on taking two weeks of vacation to cover it all (WBAS and CAS matches). Then, factor in the fuel expenses, at $3.80 per gallon, it comes to $956.00 round trip. Then, add in hotel fees, about $900.00 or so, and food, about $400.00. All in all, it would run me about $2200.00 to attend the match, and eat up two weeks of vacation. If we fly, it only takes about a week of vacation, and the price is about the same (sure hope the airline doesn't misplace any luggage or any firearms). Now, to attend the Mason Dixon Stampede, it takes 3 hours to drive there from Western PA, and runs me about $100.00 round trip for fuel. Add on seven nights in the hotel, about $560.00, and add in food, about $250.00. And of course, I would only have to use five days of vacation time. All told, it would run me about $910.00 or so to attend. So, to attend the SASS Eastern National, I need to use one week of vacation, and spend a little over $900. To attend Winter Range, I need to use up all two weeks of my vacation, and spend over $2200.00. My other week of vacation goes toward attending the PA State Match, and other annual matches in my area of the country. I was in attendance on Sunday when the announcement was made, and like the vast majority of the folks who were present, I'm looking forward to shooting at the SASS Eastern National/Mason Dixon Stampede next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Alternating venues for a single national championship makes WAY more sense than dual nationals. Now that WOULD hurt the folks at WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Now that WOULD hurt the folks at WR. You think so? To clarify I meant something like on odd years, National Champions ship would be at WR, on even years, it would be at one specific place in the east. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 You think so? To clarify I meant something like on odd years, National Champions ship would be at WR, on even years, it would be at one specific place in the east. Yes. That would hurt WR way more. 600 each year. Or 750 everyother year??? do the math. I bet even with the eastern thing. WR will still pull in 600-700 shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Doesn't motocross do a Eastern and Western National Championship???? Think they do...recognizing that it allows for the most participation through the country. I for one don't see this as a bad thing. Cheers! Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt McAllister Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I have to disagree with you on this one point. Sparta can handle 600 or 700 shooters easily. With 1,000 campsites and paved parking for 10,000 vehicles it is probably the only range in the country that can. They do manage to handle 12,000 trap shooters. I have to disagree with your disagreement. Sparta needs more hotels close to the range. Not that many shooters have campers. I could fly to WR cheaper than pulling a camper to Sparta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Doesn't motocross do a Eastern and Western National Championship???? Think they do...recognizing that it allows for the most participation through the country. I for one don't see this as a bad thing. Cheers! Phantom NCHA use to also. Worked for them. Don't know if they still do. Have not kept up with it for a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taquila Tab, Sass #25048 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I have to disagree with your disagreement. Sparta needs more hotels close to the range. Not that many shooters have campers. I could fly to WR cheaper than pulling a camper to Sparta. I realize there's not a single large hotel in Sparta but There's over 600 motel rooms within a half hours drive of the range. How many more do you think are needed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painted Filly Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I don't think it is completly a bad thing but the way it is being just sprung on WR is what is totally wrong. Painted Filly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Doesn't motocross do a Eastern and Western National Championship???? Think they do...recognizing that it allows for the most participation through the country. I for one don't see this as a bad thing. Cheers! Phantom I don't see the harm either. As for WR losing contestants, they sell out every year, and turn away how many? The shooters in the east that enjoyed WR because it is one of the top matches in the country will still go I would think. I doubt WR would feel much of a dent at all. As for Thurmont, I would like to go. I have been to WR twice, and had a great time. It is a wonderful match, run professionally and well. Truth is as I am not in the 5% or so that has a prayer of winning my category, it ois just getting together with friends. So after experiencing it twice, I don't mind going somewhere else. Just another 20+ hour drive in the other direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Wolf , SASS# 29424L Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I wonder if Winter Range is going to go along with this? You can only push folks so far, you know. SASS should reconsider this decision, of splitting the National championship match. I haven't been to Winter Range but would like to one day. Cowboy Action Shooting is a unique shooting sport, where young and old can shoot and have fun. We have been heading toward Cowboy IDPA for awhile now. We need to get back to the fun and socializing of the sport or it will die like all the other shooting sports. Why not use the State, Regionals, U.S. Open and National to lead to the World. I mean, we have a large east shoot called The U.S. Open. Why do we need another? What will this accomplish? It seems the pie is getting cut again. There is only so much money in CAS you keep splitting it up and no one will survive. I guess someone drank the kool-aid again. Blue Wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Yes. That would hurt WR way more. 600 each year. Or 750 everyother year??? do the math. I bet even with the eastern thing. WR will still pull in 600-700 shooters. I guess I'm not seeing what you are seeing. With an East and a West National, the West would likely lose shooters from the East. With alternating the west would lose shooters from the west when the national was in the east. WR has a draw that is much more than just the title national championship. I could see if I could find a shooters list for WR that showed states, but honestly I don't care enough to do that, not tonight anyway. The timing of this all is what is so screwed up. You have a well respected National Match that has earned the respect of pretty much everyone that I know of, and you pull the rug out from under them without ever a warning? If you want my opinion, which you probably don't, here it is... - FORGET the idea of two Nationals, we got one, it works just fine. - HOLD the EAST COAST CHAMPIONSHIP where-ever you want, just don't call it a SASS national. Like I said earlier, I can appreciate that the folks in the East want a big stage to play on that isn't so far from home, heck fire, so do I. My budget barely allows for ONE out of town match a year. You have to pick and choose. And as to the idea of having a chance at a national championship match closer to home, if it's a split championship, does that even mean as much? That's what regionals are for. Feel like you need to have something to cover several regions? Like I said before, come up with a name, say maybe the East Coast Championships, advertise it, put the word out, and have at it. Look what the US Open has accomplished in a few short years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I wonder if Winter Range is going to go along with this? You can only push folks so far, you know. SASS should reconsider this decision, of splitting the National championship match. I haven't been to Winter Range but would like to one day. Cowboy Action Shooting is a unique shooting sport, where young and old can shoot and have fun. We have been heading toward Cowboy IDPA for awhile now. We need to get back to the fun and socializing of the sport or it will die like all the other shooting sports. Why not use the State, Regionals, U.S. Open and National to lead to the World. I mean, we have a large east shoot called The U.S. Open. Why do we need another? What will this accomplish? It seems the pie is getting cut again. There is only so much money in CAS you keep splitting it up and no one will survive. I guess someone drank the kool-aid again. Blue Wolf With all due respect, what does this have to do with anything? So by spliting the National Championships...we're moving towards unfun...Cowboy IDPA...????? But you probably mean Cowboy IPSC...????? How is your idea for a Circuit more cost effiecent? I'm confuzelled.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Lets see. One match with 750. That sells out and turns people away. OR. Two matches with around 600 each. Serving two different parts of the country. Which would really be serving the most shooters????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Yes. That would hurt WR way more. 600 each year. Or 750 everyother year??? do the math. I bet even with the eastern thing. WR will still pull in 600-700 shooters. I think you are selling Winter range short. The draw is for FAR MORE than the national championship. I'm going this year, not because it's the national championship, though it's cool to be able to say I'm going to nationals, it's because of the reputation that the match has earned with the rank and file shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I don't think it is completly a bad thing but the way it is being just sprung on WR is what is totally wrong. Painted Filly Bingo! If true, this is unconscionable, and it will cost SASS in the short term. You don't treat people like that. I don't have anything against two matches, but I don't crap on folks that are helping me. :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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