Crazy Knife Al Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I am wrighting some senereos for our shoot in Jan. and am wondering how close is too close for Rifle Targets? I know what SASS guidelines are but would like to shoot both Rifle and Pistol at the same targets. I don't want the Pistol targets too far as to make it too much of a challange, but on the same token I do not want the Rifle too close as to make it a hazzard. Some comments would be appriciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Why not move down range (if possible) after shooting rifle targets, then shoot pistol at the same targets. This way both are at normal distance. Gonna be hard to do both from one position without the rifle being very close. FWIW we use pistol at 19'-21', rifle 34'-36', and shotgun at 28'-30'. Good Luck Jefro Relax-Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 You can look here too: pg 6 http://www.sassnet.com/Downloads/MatchDir/MDSDvH.pdf GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 If using safe, good targets, rifle targets can be placed at the same distances as pistol targets. Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conestoga Smith, SASS #18219 Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Howdy- I KNOW we have been under the Big and Close theory for some time now, BUT.... a rifle target at 20 yards ISN'T a huge challenge, and many folks would slow down enough to IMPROVE their scores! (Have done so myself) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Rifle rounds are usually the same bullet weights and not much higher velocity than pistols. Why would you not use pistol target distances if you want, as long as the targets are not worn out, pock marked or not tilted to properly deflect splatter downward? We do it around here all the time? Bordertown, the Az state championship has used rifle targets that are closer than SASS pistol target minimums on some stages. Most of the Bordertown rifle targets fall within SASS pistol target distances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 If using safe, good targets, rifle targets can be placed at the same distances as pistol targets. Fillmore +1 Most shooters use the same ammo in their rifles as their pistols. With the longer barrels, the velocities increase which causes the bullets to shatter into smaller pieces. As crazy as it sounds to some, the rifle rounds can be less of a problem than the pistol rounds. The KEY to being able to shoot close targets is that the targets are good, they are angled properly and the ground beneath the targets where the bullet pieces impact is not of a substance that will come back to the shooter. In other words, rocky ground is not good because the bullets serve as a cue ball that can send the rocks back to the firing line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 A direct answer would be Decent, common 16" round or square plate at 10 yards is fine for either pistol or rifle. Yes, they always need to be well set and in good shape, but that is assumed. Anything less is bad for any use, and closer is worse. The above assumes a common firing line or other reason not to use the downrange for pistols approach where ya can shoot rifle at 15-20 yards and pistols at half that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe West, SASS#1532 L Regulator Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 If the longer barreled rifles are in danger of getting their sights knocked off, the targets are too close. If a low flying bird can catch and eat the fired rifle bullet, the target is too far, the load is too light, or both. Some will say a properly constructed target shot with proper ammo is safe at any distance, you have determine if those conditions exist in your case for your own club/personal liability as neither "they" or SASS will be at your hearing.. No matter where you set your targets someone somewhere will not like them. But as long as the stands and shooting positions aren't set in concrete you can make adjustments next time if most of your shooters don't like them. Ask your club shooters and your club managemment as you and they are the only ones who can address your specific range situation. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bama Kid 9699 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 BTT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Ron Wayne Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I would like to see some longer shots with the rifle . Every thing is set up for speed but some longer rifle shots with time adjusted for bonus hits would be nice. We all cant be Deuce Stevens and shoot so fast you cant tell what just happened. I give him credit he is very fast and shoots clean ! GO DEUCE But some longer shots would make it fun for all. I Like the shotgun targets that throw up the pop can to shoot for a bonus shot . That is fun too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backshootin beauford mcgee Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I would like to see some longer shots with the rifle . Every thing is set up for speed but some longer rifle shots with time adjusted for bonus hits would be nice. We all cant be Deuce Stevens and shoot so fast you cant tell what just happened. I give him credit he is very fast and shoots clean ! GO DEUCE But some longer shots would make it fun for all. I Like the shotgun targets that throw up the pop can to shoot for a bonus shot . That is fun too. I'm with you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Beady Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Our club occasionally has a stage where some smaller targets are placed in front of and lower than some larger targets, and it's shooter's choice which weapon to use on which targets. In that case, I always use my rifle for the smaller targets and my pistols for the larger targets. Range is maybe 20 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Shot some stages once where the rifle targets were about 5 yards closer than the pistol targets. Based on the number of penalties, it was a P trap design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Junky Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I like to vary the target distance between stages and feel like it helps fight the repetition of far OR close. If I add a real far (or small) target as a challenge I make it a bonus. But to answer the question we shoot rifle targets as close as 8 yards and pistol targets as far as 10 so you have a crossover of 2 yards that you can "share" the targets with no issues. Obviously the size and shape of the targets has a lot to do with it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Branch Louie Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I like the rifle targets close enough so I can see the front sight AND the target and neither one is fuzzy..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus Brady Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 For the gamers: http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1518027944966&id=5f7af5d4c998e924315f6a90142836e9 For the rest of us: Wouldn't position and orientation matter more than distance? Maybe slant them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 For the gamers: http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1518027944966&id=5f7af5d4c998e924315f6a90142836e9 For the rest of us: Wouldn't position and orientation matter more than distance? Maybe slant them? Well that was a pretty stoopid link...keep yer day job. And targets should be kept parallel to the firing line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 For the gamers: http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1518027944966&id=5f7af5d4c998e924315f6a90142836e9 For the rest of us: Wouldn't position and orientation matter more than distance? Maybe slant them? I'd like to know how you got in my gun cart and stole my back up gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 http://ts3.mm.bing.n...15f6a90142836e9 that's almost as funny as Ketchum Quick's link... GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Ringer Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Idaho state match was crazy close and safe. They use well constructed steel plates with stands that give the plates a slight angle. All the lead simply drops to the ground! Side note: don't recall any shooters complaining about to close?? Have heard plenty of complaints about to far and to small! The rifle targets were a foot or to behind the pistol targets. But, the pistol targets were very close. I don't see why you couldn't put all the plates out to 7-8 paces and shoot them with rifle and pistol. Sounds Like fun. Go for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Never lost a front sight on a rifle from a close target, but the bluing is wearing of the muzzle from rubbing them, what is the best fix??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Knife Al Posted December 20, 2011 Author Share Posted December 20, 2011 Thanks to all who replied. You have answered my question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Since you've gotten all the "standard" SASS answers, I'll post a few others. IIRC (and I'm no sailor), 16-inch Naval rifles had a range of about 35,000 yds. Sadly, the Iowa-class BB's are no longer in service. I seem to recall that the ranges for the 120mm smoothbores on the M1A2 Abrams tubes went from close up to around 3500 meters, with one hitting the steel plate target at around 4200 m...which couldn't even be seen except for the heat image on the thermal sights, through a sand berm! Accuracy with these "shotguns" was at least "minute of T-72"! Those tended to be reactive targets...with the usual indication of a hit being the turret going straight up in the air! Happy Holidays, all! Your goofy Pard, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I would like to see some longer shots with the rifle . Every thing is set up for speed but some longer rifle shots with time adjusted for bonus hits would be nice. We all cant be Deuce Stevens and shoot so fast you cant tell what just happened. I give him credit he is very fast and shoots clean ! GO DEUCE But some longer shots would make it fun for all. I Like the shotgun targets that throw up the pop can to shoot for a bonus shot . That is fun too. Just out of curiosity do you think we set the matches up to please me. We get lots of compliments at our range and target placement. It sure appears that ALL are having fun. When I started out I wsa terrible with rifle at any distance. I practiced my butt off. Things have gotten bigger and closer over the years. I have a good pard that would commonly win matches with 10-15 misses when steel was smaller. Also have a nother pard that won his first state championship with 7 misses when they used to set the steel smaller and farther there too. Now bigger and closer and more folks are shootig clean. Speed has been king for a long time. It will remain king regardless of where you place steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 For the gamers: http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1518027944966&id=5f7af5d4c998e924315f6a90142836e9 For the rest of us: Wouldn't position and orientation matter more than distance? Maybe slant them? What is the link supposed to be? From your questions, you clearly need to take an RO I and II class. The main way to help prevent splash back is to slant the targets to the ground. Learn all about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Branch Louie Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I shoot at one club where the targets are smaller and further away. Folks miss a lot more. Some folks don't go there because they don't like it. So there you go.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spittoon otool Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Just out of curiosity do you think we set the matches up to please me. We get lots of compliments at our range and target placement. It sure appears that ALL are having fun. When I started out I wsa terrible with rifle at any distance. I practiced my butt off. Things have gotten bigger and closer over the years. I have a good pard that would commonly win matches with 10-15 misses when steel was smaller. Also have a nother pard that won his first state championship with 7 misses when they used to set the steel smaller and farther there too. Now bigger and closer and more folks are shootig clean. Speed has been king for a long time. It will remain king regardless of where you place steel. Oh yeah, Deuce, its true…those targets are set up just for you. When I was up there I noticed there was some kind of sophisticated algorithm (maybe sorcery?) going on with each stage. Everybody on the posse was in on it cept me…. That’s why I took such a bad whupp’in. Spittoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustyfinger 22618 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Oh yeah, Deuce, its true…those targets are set up just for you. When I was up there I noticed there was some kind of sophisticated algorithm (maybe sorcery?) going on with each stage. Everybody on the posse was in on it cept me…. That’s why I took such a bad whupp’in. Spittoon Spittoon I thinkin your hat was to tight,or maybe to low.MERRY CHRISTMAS.Rusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 But some longer shots would make it fun for all. Thanks fer letting me know what I like..........how do I feel about pistol targets? Wyatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt McAllister Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Whats too close for rifle targets is a target design and angle thing as far as safety goes. Entertainment factor is an entirely different thing. I can tell you that a steady diet of huge 8-12 yrd rifle targets gets pretty boring for me. Just my opinion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus Brady Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 " Well that was a pretty stoopid link...keep yer day job. And targets should be kept parallel to the firing line." I really do resent the inference I am stupid. Opinionated, Yes Obnoxious, Yes Arrogant, Yes But not stupid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus Brady Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 " What is the link supposed to be? From your questions, you clearly need to take an RO I and II class. The main way to help prevent splash back is to slant the targets to the ground. Learn all about it." Which is what I said (or at least, meant) about slanting them. You learn about vectors (force & direction)in the first week of high school physics. The link is a popgun. They were a toy we had when I was a kid. My parents couldn't afford more expensive toys. They are used at extreme short range to smack things (like little brothers, flies, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timber Jack Thompson, SASS #55358 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I'd like to know how you got in my gun cart and stole my back up gun. LOL - Hey who did the action work? I've been looking for someone to work on mine. (Synthetic cork?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 " Well that was a pretty stoopid link...keep yer day job. And targets should be kept parallel to the firing line." I really do resent the inference I am stupid. Opinionated, Yes Obnoxious, Yes Arrogant, Yes But not stupid! Hmmmm...well if youz were smart, you'd understand what is meant by "Stoopid LINK"...and my personal opinion that it wasn't all that funny...referencing "Gamers"...and if'n youz were that smart you'd be aware that some may not find it all that funny and you'd be prepared for opinionated folks like me to make a comment and would be deciplined enough to simply ignore these posts. Jus sayin'... Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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