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Madd Mike #8595

match directors

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it is of my personal opinion that

90% of the major protests'

are

from

shooters that have not

personally, (RECENTLY) reviewed the

rules and ro materials, that are free on the interent

 

ok

my rant is over

sassmaddmike@yahoo.com

if you want ta

 

simple example

what does

"no alibi match" mean?

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No Alibi means to me: Once the first round goes downrange on a stage the shooter is committed......

 

KK

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Uh...no reshoots for gun malfunctions...????

 

:mellow:

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I was thinkin the same as KK, but even though I just recently took RO II I wasn't sure about what Phantom said, so I looked it up.

 

Shooter's Handbook, page 20

SASS matches above the club level are “no alibi” matches. Once the first round goes down range, the competitor is committed to the stage and must finish the stage to the best of his or her ability. Reshoots/restarts are not awarded for ammunition or firearm malfunctions.

 

They both are correct.

 

I like what some big matches do, to lodge an appeal you have to but up some money, if you win, you get it back, if not you don't.

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I actually herd these said to me in person

 

shooters gets a reshoot due to possible timer malfunction (timer operators admits he is NOT sure what happened)

.....many time state champion says "I thought this was a no alibi shoot!" even after long debate

 

its a windy day, right when the timer goes buzz, stampede string on the shooters hat blows in their face, they request a restart, as they tuck the flappig thing into their shirt, and restart was granted by the timer

......many time EOT category winner, standing next to me looks at me and says "I thought this was a no alibi shoot!"

 

I was a tadd bit suprised :o

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MM, wow, amazing lack of understanding of 'no alibi match' on their parts.

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The wind in the south of France gets partial credit for driving Vincent Van Gogh nuts. Maybe they were a little addled. :)

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Until the first round has left the barrel, the shooter may restart. That's what the book says. Which is in contradiction to the previous statement that it's a "no alibi match." A no-alibi match means when the buzzer goes off, you're committed. Not once the first round has left the barrel.

 

SASS is a kinder gentler game :unsure:

 

 

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we allowed both the restart and reshoot, that I mentioned

 

...............as our interpitation is................

"no alibi" means you cannot get a reshoot if there is ammo or firearm malfunction

 

(cept fer a first round shot on a stage that is a squib that does not leave the barrel)

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Shooter's Handbook, page 20

SASS matches above the club level are “no alibi” matches. Once the first round goes down range, the competitor is committed to the stage and must finish the stage to the best of his or her ability. Reshoots/restarts are not awarded for ammunition or firearm malfunctions.

 

 

Bingo.

 

That's the way they are all ran in this area.

 

As the SASS book shows what "No Alibi" is as far as SASS is concerned.

 

We should not read anything else into it except what it says a No Alibi SASS match is.

 

No more. No less.

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Too me it means all the little nice gimmies like gun malfunctions, ammo issues, falling down, etc that we might “overlook” at monthly matches will not be apply. But, SASS rules like first shot down range, RO interference, etc still apply…

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No Alibi means to me: Once the first round goes downrange on a stage the shooter is committed......

 

KK

 

Yes, however there are exceptions. One is the following.

 

 

I actually herd these said to me in person

 

shooters gets a reshoot due to possible timer malfunction (timer operators admits he is NOT sure what happened)

...

 

Another exception I can think of is when a cease fire is called. It could be due someone or an animal showing up downrange or...

 

Regards,

 

Allie "let's not be so certain there are B&W answers to every question" Mo

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Till the lead of the first bullet clears the barrel the shooter can get a RESTART.

* - Fumbled shotgun shells

* - Tie down still on revolver hammers.

* - Shooter forgot what he was suppose to do

* - Hat falling in face

* - Holsters falling off

 

Are just a few

 

Now after the first bullet leaves the barrel..... Then we are talking RE-SHOOT.

And for that there has to be a real good reason not an alibi.

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Another example would be if the shooter is deaf as a post and doesn't hear the beep. They just stand there. After a couple of seconds, I get their attention and we start over, usually adding in a shoulder tap.

 

Once the 1st round goes down range, they are committed except for the usual exceptions that are not the shooters fault.

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I actually herd these said to me in person

 

shooters gets a reshoot due to possible timer malfunction (timer operators admits he is NOT sure what happened)

.....many time state champion says "I thought this was a no alibi shoot!" even after long debate

 

its a windy day, right when the timer goes buzz, stampede string on the shooters hat blows in their face, they request a restart, as they tuck the flappig thing into their shirt, and restart was granted by the timer

......many time EOT category winner, standing next to me looks at me and says "I thought this was a no alibi shoot!"

 

I was a tadd bit suprised :o

Shooter can request restart unless first round has gone out of his barrel. If that first round has gone down range shooter is on the clock with no alibi.

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The wind in the south of France gets partial credit for driving Vincent Van Gogh nuts. Maybe they were a little addled. :)

 

Did he get an alibi? :wacko:

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Did he get an alibi? :wacko:

 

Nah, but the appeal cost him an ear.

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No alibi for Vincent. The bullet had left the barrel.

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Since I can't understand half of what Mike usually says, I'll put this in plain English. Stage called for 15 pistol and 10 rifle. (Wild Bunch match ;) ) Shooter blazes through all the pistol but has a squib on second rifle shot. After everything was made safe, the Timer Operator discovered what was determined to be a timer malfunction.

 

The protest was that this was a no alibi match and therefore shooter doesn't get a re-shoot for a squib. I, as Match Director, said the squib was irrelevant. Shooter got a re-shoot due to timer malfunction. Protest was still made that this was a no alibi match and shooter should not have gotten a re-shoot because first round had gone down range.

 

 

(Thankfully the final results of the match wouldn't have changed even if the shooter had not gotten a re-shoot.)

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Since I can't understand half of what Mike usually says, I'll put this in plain English. Stage called for 15 pistol and 10 rifle. (Wild Bunch match ;) ) Shooter blazes through all the pistol but has a squib on second rifle shot. After everything was made safe, the Timer Operator discovered what was determined to be a timer malfunction.

 

The protest was that this was a no alibi match and therefore shooter doesn't get a re-shoot for a squib. I, as Match Director, said the squib was irrelevant. Shooter got a re-shoot due to timer malfunction. Protest was still made that this was a no alibi match and shooter should not have gotten a re-shoot because first round had gone down range.

 

 

(Thankfully the final results of the match wouldn't have changed even if the shooter had not gotten a re-shoot.)

Hey Philly,

 

IMHO, how the h--- can you give a time with a timer malfunction. :unsure: IIUC the reshoot was for the timer malfunction not the squib. :unsure: BTW, only the shooter can appeal a call. This is exactly the reason for that rule.

 

:wub:

 

Allie Mo

 

PS I :wub: you for your take on this! :)

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IIUC the reshoot was for the timer malfunction not the squib. :unsure:

 

Yep, you understand correctly.

 

 

PS I :wub: you for your take on this! :)

 

Will this earn me a hug next time we see each other? :wub:

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The squib results in some misses.

 

But a reshoot is required due to the timer failure.

On a reshoot, only safety penalties carry forward.

That is all pretty well spelled out in the rules - when we bother to read them :D :D

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Since I can't understand half of what Mike usually says, I'll put this in plain English. Stage called for 15 pistol and 10 rifle. (Wild Bunch match ;) ) Shooter blazes through all the pistol but has a squib on second rifle shot. After everything was made safe, the Timer Operator discovered what was determined to be a timer malfunction.

 

The protest was that this was a no alibi match and therefore shooter doesn't get a re-shoot for a squib. I, as Match Director, said the squib was irrelevant. Shooter got a re-shoot due to timer malfunction. Protest was still made that this was a no alibi match and shooter should not have gotten a re-shoot because first round had gone down range.

 

 

(Thankfully the final results of the match wouldn't have changed even if the shooter had not gotten a re-shoot.)

 

 

Shooter gets a re-shoot due to timer malfunction.

This should be a call by the Timer Operator and has nothing to do with speed/fumbles/squibs/misfires. (Or any other alibi).

Any safety violations, if any, carry forward and are added to re-shoot time.

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The squib results in some misses.

 

But a reshoot is required due to the timer failure.

On a reshoot, only safety penalties carry forward.

That is all pretty well spelled out in the rules - when we bother to read them :D :D

 

 

The problem arose from the term "No alibi". Some folks don't understand that term isn't an absolute. True, no alibi for shooter equipment malfunctions but, prop failure, timer malfunctions, RO interference and other such things still grant the shooter a re-shoot. That's where confusion lies and I believe is the reason Mike started this thread.

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we allowed both the restart and reshoot, that I mentioned

 

...............as our interpitation is................

"no alibi" means you cannot get a reshoot if there is ammo or firearm malfunction

 

(cept fer a first round shot on a stage that is a squib that does not leave the barrel)

 

I would have never in a million years thought of the first bullet being a squib...and not being considered a round downrange...until this weekend. I suppose though if you think about it, if there's a squib in there somewhere, there's a one in twenty chance it will be the first round...that doesn't go downrange. :D

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