Guest diablo slim shootist Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 We are planing our first 2 day SASS event in the last weekend of May "Gunfight on the Texas Frontier' -what would you choose for a side match if you attended WB or Plainsmen i would like to see every ones answers and state why Please say if you think you you would attend or not. Thanks Diablo Slim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Hi Diablo, I've got a problem with shooting either. If you would offer a two handed category in Plainsman, that would be my choice as I have the guns. I've been shooting Plainsman since 2000 and really enjoy it. The guns are so cool. I shoot a Browning low-wall rifle and an '87 SG. Hubby was working on a 1911 and loads for me. I've not shot it yet and he doesn't seem to be in a hurry. I do have the rifle and '97 SG. We used to shoot at a club that allowed you to stoke the SG at the LT and that was fun. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKFOOT SASS #11947 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Wild Bunch is my choice. Why? Because I like it!! Blackfoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diablo slim shootist Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 2 handed category...hmmmm- ill bring that up at the next meeting and see if it flies.thanks for your timely response Allie ,always a pleasure .Diablo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I prefer Plainsman, as I shoot black powder & cap guns most of the time. Have yet to shoot WB. However, you'll probably get more participants if you offer WB. Or maybe open up plainsman & have smokeless & BP categories. I'm sure there's lotsa smokeless shooters who would love to dust off the old single shot. --Dawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diablo slim shootist Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I wonder if you could have a class for lever guns loaded singular on the clock... just thinking out loud? or have cody /dixon classes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I wonder if you could have a class for lever guns loadedsingular on the clock... just thinking out loud? or have cody /dixon classes? Hi Slim, I doubt that would fly. It seems to be like allowing a DA pistol shot SA style. That has not had any official success. However, some clubs will allow it as an interim measure until two SA pistols are acquired. As Plainsman is a side match at annual matches, I do not see allowing that flexibility even though it might not be an advantage. I've heard more than once that different categories/matches use different guns by design to encourage buying guns. The official stance (per Hipshot) is that we are also the Single Action Shopping Society. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diablo slim shootist Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Thanks Allie-DSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 WB, dont' have the guns for Plainsmen. Jefro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I've never participated in, or even seen, a full blown Wild Bunch team event. Do you draw straws to decide who plays what character? Are you stuck with that character, or is it a four stage event so you can rotate guns every stage or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pecos Clyde, SASS #48481 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Over the last several months I have shot several annual and above matches that were 2-4 days in length. Here are the results of WB and plainsman participation at those events: TOTAL # Shooters....................PLAINSMAN.........WILD BUNCH 506.........................................14........................70 115..........................................2.........................31 284..........................................8.........................42 643.........................................24........................75 297.........................................10........................42 I found the numbers interesting, but I know that by themselves they do not tell the whole story. If anyone else has this kind of info from your local area I would like to see how it compares. PC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafe Conager SASS #56958 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 If I was planning to do one or the other I would go with the Wild Bunch, most shooters have a 1911 or want one, for plainsman you need 2 cap and ball pistols you need a single shot rifle. For Wild bunch you need a 1911 a rifle with 40 cal. or better. just my thoughts. Rafe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Hi Clyde, Thanks for that information. I'm sad to see Plainsman on the decline. My chance of getting a two handed category is slim with those numbers. I think it's cool that WB is so successful and am glad you folks intend to keep 1911s out of SASS matches. Someday, I hope to give it a try. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diablo slim shootist Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 maybe we need to have both but thats going to be hard to pull off in our limited time span. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I would say WB. Was thinking it would have more numbers. As the above post shows. Just my opinion. But don't think anyone would sign up to come to a annual match just because it had a Plainsmen side match. BUT. Maybe. Just maybe, a few might sign up for the match because it had a WB side. Of course this is just an opinion. And could be wrong. Just think WB would draw better. P.S. I don't shoot eiher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pecos Clyde, SASS #48481 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 DS Have you polled the club members? Although you will draw shooters from out of the area, perhaps the sponsoring clubs members have a predisposition to shoot plainsman for instance, and would sign up in larger numbers than the statistics I posted earlier. Nothing wrong with going by the "greatest amount of good for the largest number of members". Yup, you could have both, but depending on your range setup and logistics sometimes conflicts develop in the schedule, and the staff it takes to run both......other times having both can be a big success! My experience has been that the majority of shooters enjoy a warm-up mini match, a seperate practice bay, and the speed side matches. But everyone has a different view.....I draw my conclusion from participation/numbers......and that may mean my perspective is skewed to a certain degree. It would be interewsting to hear from you regarding this match after it is all over, just to see what the club decided and how the shooters responded to the decision. PC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowdy Yates, SASS #141 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I've never participated in, or even seen, a full blown Wild Bunch team event. Do you draw straws to decide who plays what character? Are you stuck with that character, or is it a four stage event so you can rotate guns every stage or what? As far as I know the first ever Wild Bunch Event was at Winter Range and it was a team event. We even used a 30 cal machine gun at the end. The good folks of Winter Range listed the guns each character was to use and the team selected each members part. Each member showed up with the guns he was going to use. It was also a dress up contest and our team even died at the end. Well at least we acted like we died. Diablo Slim, If you didn’t run them so that the shooter had to choose which one to shoot I’d shoot them both. If I had to pick it would be Plainsman just because I like the old stuff better than the new. When we were shooting the 3 gun soldier of fortune matches I was always trying to figure out how to use some 1800s stuff without getting lynched. I didn't have the stones to actually give it a try. Also I think it would be good for more match directors to offer and advertise a two handed category in both the Plainsman and Frontiersman. I know that’s blasphemy to the duelists but we had much better participation before SASS restricted the Frontiersman on adoption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diablo slim shootist Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Thanks Rowdy_DSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos El Hombre Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I always shoot the plainsman. I don't wish to disturb my 1911 trained habits as it is my house gun. Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubious Don #56333 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Wow, that would be a tough choice! To some extent my decision would depend on the match. If the WB stages were more boring, I might choose Plainsman. On the other hand, if I was the deciding factor (as in we're only gonna shoot plainsman if we have X number of shooters I'd probably shoot Plainsman. If at all possible schedule the side matches so scheduling doesn't conflict but I know from personal experience this doesn't work 100% My preference in order is when I have to pick the top two or three to shoot; Plainsman Wild Bunch Long Range Mini-Match Speed Events Pocket Pistol 22 Event Clyde; your perspective isn't skewed because of the numbers. They speak for themselves. It's only good fiscal sense for Match Officiators to choose the more populated events over the less ones. Staffing is an issue but only for long range (maybe) speed events, pocket pistol and 22 IMO. The WB and Plainsman will run themselves depending on the size of the group. Range space is more problematic. All of the above events with the exception of long range can use the main match stages and even co exist if you have enough set up. For a 12 stage match 3 or four each for mini-match, WB and Plainsman. Work the speed events pocket pistol 22 on their own stage or even the same stage with a change in targets. (trust me on this, think about having to move targets between morning/afternoon for different events and at the end of the day. End of the day when you're tuckered from a full day is a lousy time to have to reset a whole stage worth of steel and its even worse if you think you can do it between events in a half hour! Try to offset them as much as possible, WB AM, Plainsman PM Mini-match and long range AM &PM Gets sticky when you have more than that for side events; depends on if you have the space and staffing to run them all day or only a half day. Also, makes little sense to put on a side event for 11 shooters BUT, if your total group is only 40 rather than 600..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Wild Bunch has its place I suppose but I am a traditionalist when it comes to Cowboy Action Shooting so I choose the diminishing group of Plainsman. It isn't that I don't have a 1911 available or a .40 or a '97, I just like the old stuff of the period instead of a collection of two eras weapons. Here's my soapbox perspective--Wild Bunch weapons--Bolt action rifles, Mod 12 shotguns, and a 1911. If it is going to be a more modern era, then make everything more modern instead of a mishmash. Getting off my soapbox now. Jailhouse Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brasspounder, SASS #9076 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Plainsman. WB matches ought to be a whole separate match for them that are so inclined....And not connected to a regular SASS match Separate operation entirely...sort of like Cowboy Mounted Shooting is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sheriff Pack Wolf, SASS #31917 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 When the Wild bunch began to get settled in shooters minds, I could see the decline in Plainsman almost immediately. I didn't think it would take it down so far though. When you only have time for one involved side match,...I made the decision to shoot the Wild bunch and give up the Plainsman. I have just recently put everything together for the WB, but have not shot it yet. Its hell to be a newby again... Don't throw the tissue at me and call me a Jackwagon,....please,.....I'm in tears already. Packwagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 If I was planning to do one or the other I would go with the Wild Bunch, most shooters have a 1911 or want one, for plainsman you need 2 cap and ball pistols you need a single shot rifle. For Wild bunch you need a 1911 a rifle with 40 cal. or better. just my thoughts. Rafe If they do decide on WB, I would suggest allowing .38sp 158gr with power factor to increase the number of shooters. The only thing holding back a bunch of folks from WB is the .40 caliber requirement. Good Luck Jefro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I actually would like to shoot either or both, the basic problem has been lack of proper firearms for either. I have just acquired a reasonable win 97 that appears to be in excellent condition. The Wild Bunch rule makers are now allowing adjustable solid triggers in traditional so my CC 45 with a match lower and Israeli GI slide, US GI chrome barrel is now legal. I really did not want to shoot modern with the stock tiny GI sights nor did I want to shoot modern and put the match slide back on the frame. Thought the very tall Ken Sight front sight might be a problem holstering. Still have a few mag pouches to obtain to be equipped for WB. Have suitable revolvers 58 remmies but no legal rifle for the plainsman event. My regular match SxS will work. Sometime this year I will probably buy a Buffalo Classic. Then I will be ready for that match as well. Allowing rifle caliber levers single loaded might open up the number of folks who have the proper guns, but could open up a can of worms as to what constituted a proper single load. I'm thinking bang slide one thru the gate lever bang might be quicker than Bang lever throw one in the top close lever bang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Come On Christmas Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I like either idea. I plan to shoot my first Wild Bunch Match in Oklahoma on the 16th with the Shortgrass Rangers. I have had a 1911 for 18 months and have not been able to free myself up to go to one. On the Plainsman Match - Safety is the main concern and Participation should be a goal as well. A compromise could be a 20 second penalty for shooting two handed. I would actually like to shoot my cap n ball revolvers two handed. Plainsman is a little slower paced than the normal SASS match and actually that is why I like doing it. I care little how I place. I just like to shoot this and have fun. The cheers and Awwws on the long range shots are a Hoot. I am thinking the long range shots would be around 75 yards at the Greenville Range. Am I right Diablo? I am thinking the shorter than 100 yard distance would encourage participation. And there may be a break or two in the woods for a few longer shots. I could get Diablo my Buffalo Special in 45/70 to loan out to folks that want to try it out if I can not attend. I have a mess of Black Powder cartridges already loaded fer it. They make quite the thunk when they ring true on target. Shameless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Ideally, one would want to have both CATEGORIES (we don't shoot in classes, may as well use accurate terms if you're gonna run things). If that's not possible, then it's pretty obvious that WB will probably pull in more shooters if that is your goal. But should that be the goal? I agree with the pard that said you should offer whichever one the majority of the local shooters want. It's their match, and for some the only big match they will have the opportunity to enjoy for the whole year. At our little annual we took a vote the month before of how many wanted a Plainsman side match at the annual. Not a single hand went up. That settled that. We never have anyone shoot Frontiersman category. We had less than 40 shooters at our annual. I think it was 13 also shot the WB side match. I may be remembering that number a little on the high side but there was a respectable turn-out for no more than we had there overall. I think WB is new and exciting and a lot of us have gone for it big time. And you don't have to mess with that smelly, messy, nasty black powder. Kinda sad but that's the way it's going. I have several c&b revolvers but have never actually fired one. I do plan on it when I get retired soon and have the time to mess with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diablo slim shootist Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I like either idea. I plan to shoot my first Wild Bunch Match in Oklahoma on the 16th with the Shortgrass Rangers. I have had a 1911 for 18 months and have not been able to free myself up to go to one. On the Plainsman Match - Safety is the main concern and Participation should be a goal as well. A compromise could be a 20 second penalty for shooting two handed. I would actually like to shoot my cap n ball revolvers two handed. Plainsman is a little slower paced than the normal SASS match and actually that is why I like doing it. I care little how I place. I just like to shoot this and have fun. The cheers and Awwws on the long range shots are a Hoot. I am thinking the long range shots would be around 75 yards at the Greenville Range. Am I right Diablo? I am thinking the shorter than 100 yard distance would encourage participation. And there may be a break or two in the woods for a few longer shots. I could get Diablo my Buffalo Special in 45/70 to loan out to folks that want to try it out if I can not attend. I have a mess of Black Powder cartridges already loaded fer it. They make quite the thunk when they ring true on target. Shameless i have been thinking on getting one of those Buffalo Classic rifles myself! Shameless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diablo slim shootist Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Ideally, one would want to have both CATEGORIES (we don't shoot in classes, may as well use accurate terms if you're gonna run things). If that's not possible, then it's pretty obvious that WB will probably pull in more shooters if that is your goal. But should that be the goal? I agree with the pard that said you should offer whichever one the majority of the local shooters want. It's their match, and for some the only big match they will have the opportunity to enjoy for the whole year. At our little annual we took a vote the month before of how many wanted a Plainsman side match at the annual. Not a single hand went up. That settled that. We never have anyone shoot Frontiersman category. We had less than 40 shooters at our annual. I think it was 13 also shot the WB side match. I may be remembering that number a little on the high side but there was a respectable turn-out for no more than we had there overall. I think WB is new and exciting and a lot of us have gone for it big time. And you don't have to mess with that smelly, messy, nasty black powder. Kinda sad but that's the way it's going. I have several c&b revolvers but have never actually fired one. I do plan on it when I get retired soon and have the time to mess with it. yep thats why im taking this poll to see what "CATEGORY"would be more Popular. i would like to see more -Texas Okla Ark& La people chime in-what say Y'all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I'm kinda torn, but I think I'll give a slight edge to Plainsman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I prefer Plainsman. More noise, smoke, and cowboy. Tried WB a few years ago and liked it under local club rules, don't like it under the SASS guidelines. You can trick out a 1911 and make it work better. Trying to get those cap guns working consistently is challenging, takes more than tuning and new parts. Anyone like to purchase a 1911? LL' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJT Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I like cowboy action shooting, I would shoot Plainsmen. Semi-auto shooting is fun. The Saturday shoot before W3G monthlies is my favorite but a Steel Challenge match is fun too. Different thing. What ever I would choose would have a caliber choice of more than one and a fashion requirement of no more than a regular SASS match. Cheers, BJT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCandless Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Plainsman! It's what I do. Besides that, I'd already be bringin' most of the guns to shoot Frontiersman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Montana, SASS #23907 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I like both and often will shoot both at a weekend match. If the schedule creates a conflict then I go with the one that shoots the most stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 On this thread and another one running right now there's a great deal of lamentation about how Plainsman & Frontiersman are dying categories. A couple of things could be done to revive interest, but not all of them are within the power of SASS to remedy. The biggest obstacle is finding a suitable rifle. The H&R site doesn't list any of the Handi-Rifles in a pistol caliber, and I think we have to agree that 45-70 (even loaded waaaay down) is too much gun for a regular match. The smallest "period" caliber is 30-30, and it's not allowed. The only other option is the Little Sharps, but with a list price of around $900+ nobody is willing to pony up that much cash when a Handi can be had for around $250. They're percieved as "slow" categories. With an emphasis on speed in the game, using a single shot rifle is leisurely in comparison to someone shooting a short stroked lever gun. Not everyone wants to, or can, shoot duelist style. Not everyone wants to shoot BP. Can't do much about changing the speed perception or the price of rifles, but modifying the rules to allow the 30-30, smokeless powder, and two-handed gripping might have an impact on keeping the basic category idea alive. And if I were able to attend, I'd pick Plainsman over Wild Bunch just because I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.