Oldest Gun still used in CAS

[Cotton Eye Joe]

Good morning! 

 

I'm going to be trying out my Marlin Model 1888 this weekend in Mesa, AZ's match. It was made in 1889.

 

I was wondering who else has ever used an old original firearm in a cowboy shoot, and which might be the oldest. I'm thinking it's likely an early 1873 Winchester or potentially a Colt revolver.

 

Not really counting the long range, side match stuff, because I'm sure there are some really old single shots there. I was mainly thinking the 10-10-4 guns, but post anything you think is relevant!

 

-Cotton Eye Joe

 

 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Heh heh heh....

Ask, and ye shall receive!   Dates of manufacture are based upon either a factory letter, or best guess estimate from various online sources.  I have limited myself to things made prior to 1898, and that are of Main Match type firearms.

Pistols....

 

S&W New Model 3.  .44-40  10-27-1897

 

S&W New Model 3 Target.   .38-44  December 17th, 1887

 

 

Colt SAA .44-40 1884.

 

Merwin & Hulbert 3rd Model.  .44-40.  Estimated date of manufacture between 1883 and 1887.

 

 

Colt SAA.   32-20.   Letters as a .44-40   1881

 

 

Remington 58, Factory Conversion to .38 Long Colt.   Made in November 1864
 

 

Colt 1860.  Converted at some point to .32 S&W.   1863

 

 

Rifles...

 

Colt Lightning .32-20   1897

 

 

Colt Lightning  .44-40  Costa Rican Army Surplus  1890

.

 

Marlin 1888  .32-20  3-1-1889

Let us know how yours works.   Mine is very smooth, but seemed kinda quirky when I used at at a match.

 

Model 1865 Burnside Spencer  56-50 Spencer.   Circa 1865-1866.

 

 

Shotguns.
 

Winchester 1893  4-11-1895  12 Gauge  (Not SASS Legal)

 

 

Burgess  circa 1884-1889.  12 Gauge.   (Not SASS Legal)


 

 

Winchester 1897  4-18-1888  12 Gauge.



I do have other things, but it's all side match stuff.

I have fired all of these guns, and used all but the two oldest pistols (and the two outlawed shotguns) in a match, but only because I just haven't yet.

So, the ones to beat are indeed a Colt revolver, but the rifle's a Spencer.   The shotgun's a Winchester though, at the moment.

Edited September 4 by H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

Lots of folks will shoot their antique(s) in an occasional match, probably not too many that do it all the time.  I put a couple thousand rounds through a 1901 SAA at matches, but heck, that thing is a whippersnapper compared to lots of others.  My most recent antique is also my oldest, a Colt 44-40 Frontier Six Shooter made in 1883.  I've shot it in one match and plan to shoot it about once a year.

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

I have a Winchester 1892 in 32 WCF made in 1900 that I shoot once in awhile.

[Texas Jack Black]

24 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

Lots of folks will shoot their antique(s) in an occasional match, probably not too many that do it all the time.  I put a couple thousand rounds through a 1901 SAA at matches, but heck, that thing is a whippersnapper compared to lots of others.  My most recent antique is also my oldest, a Colt 44-40 Frontier Six Shooter made in 1883.  I've shot it in one match and plan to shoot it about once a year.

Do you have a Pic. of the 44-40

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

49 minutes ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said:

I have a Winchester 1892 in 32 WCF made in 1900 that I shoot once in awhile.

Me too!  Mine is a SRC made in 1909.  Bought it from Doc Red Dawg in Alaska on the Wire.   The Frontier Six Shooter also came from Alaska, from Doc's pard Flaco Joe on the Wire.

42 minutes ago, Texas Jack Black said:

Do you have a Pic. of the 44-40

Sure.  44 in front, 1901 .45 in back

 

[Three Foot Johnson]

As best as I've been able to tell, this 10g American Arms Fox Patent Side Swing was made between 1870 and 1872. I've used it in several matches. 

 

[Idaho Gunslinger]

My stuff isn't nearly as old as some of the stuff but the two 1897's that my wife and I regularly use are older. The one is a 3 screw foregrip model was made in 1899 or 1900. My other one was made in 1910 or 1911. I don't have pictures handy right now. 

[Texas Jack Black]

33 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

Me too!  Mine is a SRC made in 1909.  Bought it from Doc Red Dawg in Alaska on the Wire.   The Frontier Six Shooter also came from Alaska, from Doc's pard Flaco Joe on the Wire.

Sure.  44 in front, 1901 .45 in back

 

 Very nice.

Thank You

[MizPete]

I'm still mourning the loss of my Granddad's LC Smith sxs, stolen in FL.  Peter started CAS with it.  Don't know when it was manufactured, but Granddad was born in 1888.  My cousin Ron wanted it soooooooo bad, but Granddad said it needed to be mine b/c it was scaled for a smaller person, so he must have got it while a young'un.  Nevertheless, he used it all his life.  I'd give much to have it back.

[Silver Sam, SASS #34718L]

2nd model 1873 Carbine 38 WCF ..... It was mfg in 1881.

I replaced the Wood right after I got it 20 sumpin years ago....

It was in "Bad Shape" when it was pulled out of a barrel full of old shovels and rakes at a Flea Market.

But it sure is Purdy now and Still Shoots Awesome!!!

 

 

 

Marlin First Year Production Model 1893 in 32-40 

I use it in long range Lever side matches... It is still a "tack driver" !!!

 

 

 

[Warden Callaway]

The nickel plated Colt is Fronteer Six Shooter made in 1883. The blued Colt was made in 1894. The shotgun is a Colt 1878 10 gauge. The Marlin is an 1889 44WCF. 

 

Edited September 4 by Warden Callaway

[Sedalia Dave]

I have an original 1865 Spencer that has been shot in one match. The breech block was replaced to convert it from rimfire to center fire. I still have the original center fire breech block and magazine follower.

 

Plan to shoot it in a few more once I get the forearm repaired.

[Blackwater 53393]

My old 10ga Remington double is an 1889. The serial number indicates that it was made in late  ‘89 or early ‘90 and shipped sometime in 1890.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said:

I have an original 1865 Spencer that has been shot in one match. The breech block was replaced to convert it from rimfire to center fire. I still have the original center fire breech block and magazine follower.

 

Plan to shoot it in a few more once I get the forearm repaired.

 

I take my Spencer out once, at most twice a year.   It's fun to shoot, feeds properly, but doesn't seem to extract quite right.   But, it's gonna be a slow as a snail anyway.  I have found it's easier to load the last 3 one at time into the chamber rather than try to reload the magazine.   The Spencer is fun, but I don't think I'd wanna shoot it regularly.  At least not my original.  If I was gonna do it regularly, I'd want to get one of the modern replica's in a more conventional (.44, .45) cartridge.

[Sedalia Dave]

5 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

I take my Spencer out once, at most twice a year.   It's fun to shoot, feeds properly, but doesn't seem to extract quite right.   But, it's gonna be a slow as a snail anyway.  I have found it's easier to load the last 3 one at time into the chamber rather than try to reload the magazine.   The Spencer is fun, but I don't think I'd wanna shoot it regularly.  At least not my original.  If I was gonna do it regularly, I'd want to get one of the modern replica's in a more conventional (.44, .45) cartridge.

 

56-50 is the easiest to get to feed and cycle properly.  Mine still has the blade extractor and I made my brass by cutting down 50-90 Sharps 2 1/2 brass. The rim of 50-90 Sharps 2 1/2 is larger in diameter than the 50-70 and this really helps it to properly extract the brass. The rifles with the lane style extractor can get by with brass than has a small diameter rim.  

 

Of the reproductions, 45 Colt is the hardest to get to extract consistently because the cartridge rim is so narrow.  44WCF and 44 extract better because the cartridge has a wider rim.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Mine also has the blade extractor.  I use cut down .50-70 brass from Buffalo Arms that they saw is custom modified for use in original Spencers because the modern made brass is for the one that Taylor sells that uses slightly smaller rims for some reason.  But, usually, the blade pulls the spent shell halfway out and then slips off the rim.   I flick it out by hand and then lever in the next round.  Annoying, but workable.   Do .45  Scofields work in the 45 Colt ones?   What is the other .44?  Special or Russian?

Hmmm...  I'd assume it was never chambered in a reproduction, but I wonder if .45 Auto rim would be the ideal caliber...

 

, 

Edited September 5 by H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619

[Horace Patootie, SASS #35798]

After a match, I shot my 1886 Winchester made in 1887.

Horace

[Sedalia Dave]

Original Spencers converted to center fire are VERY sensitive to cartridge OAL and bullet profile. The action was designed to feed a pointed bullet. Pointed bullets are not compatible with CF cartridges so they are finicky about feeding RNFP bullets.

 

Reproductions are just as finicky about COAL as the actions are basically the same as the originals. A change in COAL of only 10 thousandths is often the difference between reliable feeding and a train wreck.

 

Bullet profile also has a major impact on how well it feeds cartridges. 

 

One chambered for 45 Colt would not feed 45 Schofield or 45 Auto Rim without a major redesign of both the upper and lower bolt blocks.  IFAIK none were chambered in 44 Special. 44 Mag would be too long and 44 Russian too short and would require the same redesign as one chambered in 45..

 

I learned all this from spending about a month reading a few hundred relevant posts over at the Spencer Shooting Society and through many many hours of trial and error working on my reproduction Spencer along with a little guidance from a fellow Spencer shooter.

 

For those wondering; I do not work on other people's firearms.  Got burned really badly trying to help out a shooter and have zero interest in repeating it any time soon. I will give advice and share what I have learned.

[Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L]

I have been shooting an 1887 Winchester made in 1891 99.99% of the time since 2001. I shoot an 1873 Winchester musket also made in 1891 maybe once a year. I have shot a Merwin Hulbert made in the 1870's and S&W's made in 1873 and the 1880's in a couple of matches.

 

The oldest gun I have and have shot is a Kentucky rifle made in the 1840's.

[watab kid]

not sure how old my hammered stevens is but its old 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

It occurs to me that a related question to this would be what is the oldest gun "design" still used in CAS?   I mean I doubt if anyone is shooting a real vintage Colt Paterson, or even a Walker, but reproductions are certainly in use.   For rifles, I'd guess the Henry is the oldest design.  Plenty of reproductions, but I doubt anyone is shooting a real one.   (Which may very well may mean that the potential oldest real gun is a centerfire Winchester 66...)   Nobody makes a reproduction Volcanic rifle, or anything that may have come along before that.   For a shotgun, I guess it would be a specific model hammered double, but there's more of a chance that whatever it is might actually still be in use by someone.