Is trail boss going to be available again?

[Buckshot Bob]

I got a email today from Load data.com with this article highlighted.

I know it’s from 13 , but maybe this is an indication they know something? 
Or a indication they know nothing  

https://loaddata.com/Article/LoadDevelopment/Subsonic-Trail-Boss-Loads/234

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

An article from 11 years ago is giving you hope that Trail Boss is going to be resurrected from the dead?  I read an 11 year old article that said ENRON may be coming back too.

[Yellowstone Vic SASS#32968]

30 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

An article from 11 years ago is giving you hope that Trail Boss is going to be resurrected from the dead?  I read an 11 year old article that said ENRON may be coming back too.

Ohh good….if Enron is coming back, maybe they will give me back my retirement….
 

Sorry…you brought back old memories Larson…
 

With the powder situation as it is, I think the chances of TrailBoss coming back are very low. 
 

[Buckshot Bob]

1 hour ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

An article from 11 years ago is giving you hope that Trail Boss is going to be resurrected from the dead?  I read an 11 year old article that said ENRON may be coming back too.

No the fact they emailed it out today 

[Buckshot Bob]

Not much use in pushing an article for unobtainable powders, unless maybe they know something the general public doesn’t 

[Idaho Gunslinger]

I saw that same email and wondered why they were posting about a powder that nobody can get right now.

[Cholla]

My guess is metadata is finding interest in Trail Boss due to searches on Google and automatically finding content to match. Welcome to a world with AI. 

[Buckshot Bob]

11 minutes ago, Cholla said:

My guess is metadata is finding interest in Trail Boss due to searches on Google and automatically finding content to match. Welcome to a world with AI. 

I was hoping that since loaddata.com is run by the people at Handloader maybe they had some inside information. If their just not paying attention  

[Boggus Deal #64218]

What I don’t understand is that powder companies can’t keep up with the demand for powders yet continue to develop and introduce new ones.new ones

[Texas Jack Black]

 What was so special about TB, it was overpriced and when  the air conditioner kicked on it flew all over the place.

 

Unique  is all I use  I tried TB and it is just another overpriced hyped up powder IMHO

 

Best Wishes

[Buckshot Bob]

53 minutes ago, Texas Jack Black said:

 What was so special about TB, it was overpriced and when  the air conditioner kicked on it flew all over the place.

 

Unique  is all I use  I tried TB and it is just another overpriced hyped up powder IMHO

 

Best Wishes

It was very good for subsonic loads . Takes lots of volume up in the case. Also the same reason for cowboy shooters shooting reduced loads. 

[Buckshot Bob]

1 hour ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

What I don’t understand is that powder companies can’t keep up with the demand for powders yet continue to develop and introduce new ones.new ones

Some demand is military and ammunition companies, which both take precedent over reloaders. And I just read a article the other day where Alliant has stopped shipping powder for retailers because of a shortage of nitrocellulose 

https://www.ammoland.com/2024/05/alliant-powders-suspended-shipments-of-smokeless-powders-for-reloading/#axzz8buP9nmaO

[Boggus Deal #64218]

2 hours ago, Buckshot Bob said:

Some demand is military and ammunition companies, which both take precedent over reloaders. And I just read a article the other day where Alliant has stopped shipping powder for retailers because of a shortage of nitrocellulose 

https://www.ammoland.com/2024/05/alliant-powders-suspended-shipments-of-smokeless-powders-for-reloading/#axzz8buP9nmaO

I understand those demands but I’m talking about several brand new powders introduced every year or so. 

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Probably companies find eight tons of surplus Serbian powder hidden in a bunker in east Wiseristan and decide to bottle it and slap on a label.  They have to have something to sell.  I have noticed a couple of "new" powders that were plentiful six months ago and now are gone from the shelves.

[Tell Sackett SASS 18436]

Have you checked on the temperature in Hell recently?

[Buckshot Bob]

1 hour ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

I understand those demands but I’m talking about several brand new powders introduced every year or so. 

Lately companies have come out with powders that reduced copper fouling , are cleaner burning,  and they have ones that are much less temp sensitive. Even ball powders which were typically temperature sensitive, are now very stable in some brands . Ball powders have always been liked because they measure so well but disliked because of their temperature sensitivity. These new powders are improvements , cleaner burning, reduced fouling and temperature sensitivity. And once one company comes out with something better the others have to follow suit or loose sales. Many of these innovations have been for military applications but in the end the consumer also benefits . 
When I heard about alliant pausing sales I bought some reloader 16 I had been wanting. It’s basically the same thing as 17 but it has the copper fowling reducer and is more temp stable, it’s just a better powder. If 17 does what you want it’s cheaper, but I’m guessing it will eventually be phased out. Powders like Win760 are cheaper than the new line of Stabil ball powder but simply don’t preform as well. 

This is nothing new , years ago I shot red dot in a shotgun and it was always filthy. Then clays came out and it was fantastic in comparison. And even today’s red dot does not preform the same as it did 30 years ago. 
Trail boss was a response to something CAS shooters wanted, but it just happened that around that same time suppressors became a very popular accessory and the powder works well for subsonic loads in cartridges with larger case capacity. 
Personally I think it’s great that these companies are bringing us products that preform better. 

[Cinch]

Trailboss is a goner. If you see shotgun powder ya better buy it. It seems the copper fouling reducer are temp or position sensitive with CAS loads. Don't ask how I know...

[Texas Jack Black]

6 hours ago, Buckshot Bob said:

It was very good for subsonic loads . Takes lots of volume up in the case. Also the same reason for cowboy shooters shooting reduced loads. 

   Maybe we can go back to shooting  loads that actually sound louder than POP

[Buckshot Bob]

3 minutes ago, Texas Jack Black said:

   Maybe we can go back to shooting  loads that actually sound louder than POP

I doubt they would increase the speed limit with how close targets are and wanting to maximize Target life . But you never know, side bowling pin matches with max 44/45 loads  

Anyone who is a gamer is going for a load they can get the best rhythm with. Which is usually pretty low powered. 
I have no idea what the actual numbers are but I always read on this forum that membership and participation are steadily declining. But the state of the economy and the gun industry is certainly not helping. Too many people are far more worried about paying the house payment and the grocery bill than a shooting match, and rightfully so. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

8 hours ago, Texas Jack Black said:

 What was so special about TB, it was overpriced and when  the air conditioner kicked on it flew all over the place.

 

Unique  is all I use  I tried TB and it is just another overpriced hyped up powder IMHO

 

Best Wishes

I never saw the hype about Trail Boss. I went back to smokeless about 6-7 yrs ago snd I’ve been using TiteGroup ever since. No problems!

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

A lot of rags and web sites dredge up bottom muck to republish.  Generating Click Bate and a little readership.  "They" don't know any more than we do even though they try to sound like they do.  Sucking in the uninformed and unwashed masses.

 

Hey Larsen, I took a bath with ENRON, think they're gonna go refund when they restart???  Oh Boy!! (Snicker Snicker Chortle) 

 

PS:  Ooopsies, forgot, I wouldn't hold yer breath.  Ya won't look to good in "Dead Blue"

[watab kid]

much as id like to tryit and probably use it regularly ill believe its back when i see it on the shelves , i am skeptical , 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

On 6/1/2024 at 9:03 AM, Texas Jack Black said:

 What was so special about TB

 

1. Low, almost non existent, recoil even with maximum loads.

2. Useful in everything from .32 S&W to .45-70.  (Including modern rifle rounds such as 7mm Mauser and .30-'06 if you are so inclined)

3.  IMPOSSIBLE to overcharge a cartridge.  Their own data said that a double max charge will no exceed max safe pressure for the cartridge in question, and will probably overflow the case anyway.

 

Those three things made it very attractive to me.

And after losing 2 revolvers to overcharges W231 loads, well, even more so.

 

[Three Foot Johnson]

Trail Boss, along with about twenty others, was discontinued June 1st, 2018 due to loss of the CE certificate - "Conformite Europeene". It was supposed to be temporary, pending some reformulation of the recipe, and every year since, there have been rumors that "it's coming back this fall" or "next year", but with the current shortage of nitrocellulose, the odds of it coming back now are exactly zero.

[Texas Jack Black]

3 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

1. Low, almost non existent, recoil even with maximum loads.

2. Useful in everything from .32 S&W to .45-70.  (Including modern rifle rounds such as 7mm Mauser and .30-'06 if you are so inclined)

3.  IMPOSSIBLE to overcharge a cartridge.  Their own data said that a double max charge will no exceed max safe pressure for the cartridge in question, and will probably overflow the case anyway.

 

Those three things made it very attractive to me.

And after losing 2 revolvers to overcharges W231 loads, well, even more so.

 

 How about UNIQUE?

[Texas Jack Black]

On 6/1/2024 at 4:39 PM, Buckshot Bob said:

I doubt they would increase the speed limit with how close targets are and wanting to maximize Target life . But you never know, side bowling pin matches with max 44/45 loads  

Anyone who is a gamer is going for a load they can get the best rhythm with. Which is usually pretty low powered. 
I have no idea what the actual numbers are but I always read on this forum that membership and participation are steadily declining. But the state of the economy and the gun industry is certainly not helping. Too many people are far more worried about paying the house payment and the grocery bill than a shooting match, and rightfully so. 

 Not suggesting a speed increase. There are other powders that can fill the void  

[Cypress Sun]

3 minutes ago, Texas Jack Black said:

  There are other powders that can fill the void  

 

Really...which ones?

[Buckshot Bob]

1 hour ago, Texas Jack Black said:

 Not suggesting a speed increase. There are other powders that can fill the void  

 

On 6/1/2024 at 4:39 PM, Buckshot Bob said:

   Maybe we can go back to shooting  loads that actually sound louder than POP

So what are you suggesting when you want a load louder than pop ? I don’t know what it’s quoting me for the statement when I copied it . To me louder equates to more velocity 

 

On 6/1/2024 at 4:39 PM, Buckshot Bob said:

Maybe we can go back to shooting  loads that actually sound louder than POP

Tried it again and it still fills my name in , maybe because I’m the poster quoting you ? 
And the only power I’ve seen thats similar to trail boss was tin star . And everyone here seemed to hate it . But it also had a high volume to weight ratio. 
Until the raw materials are plentiful I think it’s going to be difficult to get any reloading components that aren’t in high demand . If it isn’t for 9mm, 223, 308 or 12ga it’s probably 2nd fiddle 

And as far as Unique goes Alliant has stopped shipping powder for commercial sale so it maybe as scarce as TB soon 

[Too Tall Bob]

No need to try to drum up any TIN star (N32C) as it has been discontinued by VV several years ago. 

[Buckshot Bob]

7 minutes ago, Too Tall Bob said:

No need to try to drum up any TIN star (N32C) as it has been discontinued by VV several years ago. 

It seems to have had the opposite trajectory of Trail boss . Which surprised me I’ve always liked VV powders . They were always more expensive but not so much anymore, I’ve seen Alliant and IMR going for more recently .

I just threw tin star out there because it’s the only other powder I know of that had a high volume to weight ratio like TB . 

[Cholla]

Red Dot came the closest to filling a case but it just became hard to find. At this point I think APP may be the next best thing in some applications. 

[watab kid]

so with all these traditional powders gone from shelves whayts left out there these days ? 

[Texas Jack Black]

 Still others to fill the void

[Buckshot Bob]

8 hours ago, watab kid said:

so with all these traditional powders gone from shelves whayts left out there these days ? 

Hodgdon seems to be doing well with all the brands it represents now . But with a shortage of nitrocellulose I would think that would eventually affect everyone. The powders that are not as temp stable and don’t have the copper fouling eraser are typically less expensive. I also think they will be the first to be phased out unless they are extremely popular. But without knowing all the nuances of the production process and where they are produced it would be hard to predict. 

[watab kid]

11 hours ago, Buckshot Bob said:

Hodgdon seems to be doing well with all the brands it represents now . But with a shortage of nitrocellulose I would think that would eventually affect everyone. The powders that are not as temp stable and don’t have the copper fouling eraser are typically less expensive. I also think they will be the first to be phased out unless they are extremely popular. But without knowing all the nuances of the production process and where they are produced it would be hard to predict. 

so , buy what you can find it may get scarcer before it gets back on the shelves in quantity ?