John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 From The Federalist U.S. District Judge Sharon Johnson Coleman ruled on March 8 that a federal law prohibiting illegal immigrants from owning guns is unconstitutional, arguing the law did not adhere to the Supreme Court’s ruling in New York State Rifle and Pistol Association v. Bruen that stipulated gun control laws must fit historical tradition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Have we traditionally allowed illegals to purchase guns? I guess they'd pass a NICS check, they have no background here per se. But yet they want to take/restrict mine! You just can't make this manure up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 How can a non-citizen have any US Constitutional rights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 This is just the latest in a long line of tactics employed by liberal jurists to push their agenda. They repeatedly take whatever single point, totally out of context, and apply some ridiculous abstract reasoning to it to muddy the waters and create new obstacles for law abiding CITIZENS to have to deal with!! The intended result is to force citizens and supporting organizations to expend their time, energy, and money to correct these situations and, they hope, prevent those citizens from securing their natural, Constitutionally guaranteed rights!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Joker Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Merge with the other thread on this topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 6 minutes ago, Texas Joker said: Merge with the other thread on this topic? Not another thread on this subject on this or the next page!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Joker Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Search guns for newcomers @Blackwater 53393 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Three days ago and three pages down?? Gimme a break! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Joker Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Still the same convo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jack Black Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 You boys must have been asleep in civics class. The Original Bill Of Rights gives rights to the PEOPLE it does not say citizen Amendments after define citizen . So because of the earlier 10 amendments all are given the same rights. CIVICS 101 Best Wishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 1 hour ago, Cypress Sun said: How can a non-citizen have any US Constitutional rights? Everyone jumps on this, but they seem to think that only applies to the second. But if non-citizens have no constitutional rights, they wouldn't be able to go to the church of their choice. Cops can search them on a whim. Cops could take him in the back room and beat a confession out of them. Force them to confess. Because they don't have first amendment rights or fourth amendment rights or fifth amendment rights. Right? Because they're not citizens. The Constitution says THE PEOPLE. It doesn't say the citizens. It says the people. Once you set foot inside the boundaries of the United States you have constitutional rights. Which, in my opinion, might be the reason the terrorists are held in Cuba. They're not here, so they don't have constitutional rights. They don't have the right to a lawyer. They don't have the right to remain silent. They're not in America. And I see that Texas Jack Black has already said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 7 minutes ago, Alpo said: Everyone jumps on this, but they seem to think that only applies to the second. But if non-citizens have no constitutional rights, they wouldn't be able to go to the church of their choice. Cops can search them on a whim. Cops could take him in the back room and beat a confession out of them. Force them to confess. Because they don't have first amendment rights or fourth amendment rights or fifth amendment rights. Right? Because they're not citizens. The Constitution says THE PEOPLE. It doesn't say the citizens. It says the people. Once you set foot inside the boundaries of the United States you have constitutional rights. Which, in my opinion, might be the reason the terrorists are held in Cuba. They're not here, so they don't have constitutional rights. They don't have the right to a lawyer. They don't have the right to remain silent. They're not in America. And I see that Texas Jack Black has already said that. They are illegals. They have earned nothing and are owed nothing. Pound sand. You pay for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 56 minutes ago, Texas Jack Black said: You boys must have been asleep in civics class. The Original Bill Of Rights gives rights to the PEOPLE it does not say citizen Amendments after define citizen . So because of the earlier 10 amendments all are given the same rights. CIVICS 101 Best Wishes Nope!! I was an A student in civics! And those “amendments after” were adopted to define citizens and to make CITIZENS the recipients of those Constitutional rights. As a nation, we have recognized human rights for everyone that enters or occupies our country, but certain rights are and always have been reserved for those who are actual citizens!! The definition of citizenship and the requirements to meet for citizenship are and have been settled law for decades!! More than a century ago, my grandparents passed through Ellis Island and met/earned their citizenship!! Upon completion of that process, they received the rights and the Constitutional guarantee of those rights as citizens!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 How about in LA where illegal can carry strap on a gun and pin on a LAPD badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 2 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said: Have we traditionally allowed illegals to purchase guns? I guess they'd pass a NICS check, they have no background here per se. But yet they want to take/restrict mine! You just can't make this manure up. They won’t get to the NICS check. As soon and they answer yes to 21 (l) on a 4473 the sale stops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 i posted this on another site i visit daily [international site] they dont get it and neither do i , unless they are looking for a way to leyt hunter off .............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forty Rod SASS 3935 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 4 hours ago, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said: From The Federalist U.S. District Judge Sharon Johnson Coleman ruled on March 8 that a federal law prohibiting illegal immigrants from owning guns is unconstitutional, arguing the law did not adhere to the Supreme Court’s ruling in New York State Rifle and Pistol Association v. Bruen that stipulated gun control laws must fit historical tradition. So illegal aliens can own guns but legal citizens often can't? What is the definition of insanity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Isn’t it a felony to come into this country ILLEGALLY? If so they cannot own or buy a firearm period. Same goes for citizens that have felonies. I'm not a lawyer so I’m asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jack Black Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 10 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said: Nope!! I was an A student in civics! And those “amendments after” were adopted to define citizens and to make CITIZENS the recipients of those Constitutional rights. As a nation, we have recognized human rights for everyone that enters or occupies our country, but certain rights are and always have been reserved for those who are actual citizens!! The definition of citizenship and the requirements to meet for citizenship are and have been settled law for decades!! More than a century ago, my grandparents passed through Ellis Island and met/earned their citizenship!! Upon completion of that process, they received the rights and the Constitutional guarantee of those rights as citizens!! We disagree and the court also disagrees You need a refresher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jack Black Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: Isn’t it a felony to come into this country ILLEGALLY? If so they cannot own or buy a firearm period. Same goes for citizens that have felonies. I'm not a lawyer so I’m asking. You would first need to be convicted 8 hours ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said: So illegal aliens can own guns but legal citizens often can't? What is the definition of insanity? In some cases Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shepherd Book Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: Isn’t it a felony to come into this country ILLEGALLY? If so they cannot own or buy a firearm period. Same goes for citizens that have felonies. I'm not a lawyer so I’m asking. Improper entry can become a felony, but the first attempt may be a misdemeanor: For the first improper entry offense, the person can be fined (as a criminal penalty), or imprisoned for up to six months, or both. For a subsequent offense, the person can be fined or imprisoned for up to two years, or both. (See 8 U.S.C. Section 1325, I.N.A. Section 275.) In addition, this section of immigration law authorizes a civil fine that can be imposed on top of the criminal penalty. If we accept the premise that our rights in the Constitution are based on natural law, then it follows that all people in the US have these rights, subject to following the laws of the land. Thus, an alien has rights, BUT they also ought to be subject to the consequences of their law breaking, including the penalties above and even deportation. Just come legally. and be welcomed. This national security threat of millions of unvetted aliens is going to cause us to pay a stiff penalty of not following our own laws....That's why I am glad my security rests in Jesus Christ, not the US Government and certainly not the government of NYS. SB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 27 minutes ago, Texas Jack Black said: You would first need to be convicted In some cases So why didn't the prosecutors move to convict him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still hand Bill Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 I am sure the current administration won’t let this ruling stand and will appeal it. In the end this may actually be a win for gun rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jack Black Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 18 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: So why didn't the prosecutors move to convict him? I would say politics Just a refresher The Bill Of Rights consists of the rights given to the PEOPLE it does not say citizen and the 2nd amendment says that the right of the PEOPLE shall not be infringed The Constitution tells the PEOPLE what form of government we will have and how it will be set up. any amendments after the first ten are amendments to the Constitution not to the BILL OF RIGHTS Just a bit of info for some of my fellow SASS members Best Wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 14 hours ago, Texas Jack Black said: You boys must have been asleep in civics class. The Original Bill Of Rights gives rights to the PEOPLE it does not say citizen Amendments after define citizen . So because of the earlier 10 amendments all are given the same rights. CIVICS 101 Best Wishes I thought the Bill of Rights are specific restrictions on the Federal government; they don't grant people "rights". People already have those rights and the government cannot "infringe" them. The 2nd Amendment doesn't give people the right to own firearms. It (should) prevent the government from passing laws that restrict that right. So a ruling by a District judge that the law is unconstitutional could lead to overturning other firearm laws. This could get interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Okay I found this, an Illegal Immigrant is not automatically a felon BUT he/she cannot buy a gun from an FFL dealer unless he has a valid ID and can show proof of residency for I believe at least 30 days, maybe more. I guess he can own a gun but if caught with one they should question where he got it. Some states you can buy from a private owner but you must show proof of residency to the seller. I worked part time in a gun shop and we would NOT be able to sell an illegal a gun. If he tried to buy at a gun show he would have had to show a valid ID from Ohio for example. So where did he get the gun??? https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/24/politics/undocumented-immigrants-not-necessarily-criminal/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 3 hours ago, Texas Jack Black said: We disagree and the court also disagrees You need a refresher. NO refresher needed!! One idiot liberal judge throws a red herring ruling into the arena!! SO WHAT!!! There is enough settled law in effect to keep this from becoming a problem IF law enforcement does its job!! We’ll see what the higher courts do with this dimwit’s ruling when it is challenged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 19 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said: NO refresher needed!! One idiot liberal judge throws a red herring ruling into the arena!! SO WHAT!!! There is enough settled law in effect to keep this from becoming a problem IF law enforcement does its job!! We’ll see what the higher courts do with this dimwit’s ruling when it is challenged. I sure ATF is pulling there hair out because another redesign of the 4473 would need to be issued. It’s changed several times in the last couple years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jack Black Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 2 hours ago, J-BAR #18287 said: I thought the Bill of Rights are specific restrictions on the Federal government; they don't grant people "rights". People already have those rights and the government cannot "infringe" them. The 2nd Amendment doesn't give people the right to own firearms. It (should) prevent the government from passing laws that restrict that right. So a ruling by a District judge that the law is unconstitutional could lead to overturning other firearm laws. This could get interesting. It spells out these rights in relation to the government. Best wishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jack Black Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 1 hour ago, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said: I sure ATF is pulling there hair out because another redesign of the 4473 would need to be issued. It’s changed several times in the last couple years. Just read the Bill Of Rights Best Wishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Joker Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 1 hour ago, Blackwater 53393 said: NO refresher needed!! One idiot liberal judge throws a red herring ruling into the arena!! SO WHAT!!! There is enough settled law in effect to keep this from becoming a problem IF law enforcement does its job!! We’ll see what the higher courts do with this dimwit’s ruling when it is challenged. All settled law gets epended when SCOTUS gives a ruling. 15 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said: Nope!! I was an A student in civics! And those amendments after were adopted to define citizens and to make citizens the recipients of those Constitutional rights. As a nation, we have recognized human rights for everyone that enters or occupies our country, but certain rights are and always have been reserved for those who are actual @Blackwater 53393 your logic says that all the .gov has to do is brightline a way to remove anybody es citizenship. Oh that's right they did with GCA 68 Suddenly there's a way to strip Constitutional rights from citizens. Just convict em of a felony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: Some states you can buy from a private owner but you must show proof of residency to the seller I'm sure there are some states that would require that. Fortunately not all of them do. Florida, for example, says that I cannot sell a gun to someone that I know cannot buy one. That means I could not sell one to Hardpan because I know he's a California resident. I could not sell one to Smuteye because I know he's an Alabama resident. Could not sell one to Rolan, because I know he's a Georgia resident. But if Half Fast Bob came up to me at my yard sale wanting to buy a gun, if I did not KNOW that he was not a Florida resident, or I did not KNOW he had a criminal record, or I did not KNOW he was under the age of 18, I could legally sell him a gun. I am not required to see proof of residency or proof of age or proof of lack of a criminal record. Yet another example of why Florida is a good place to live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still hand Bill Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Just listened to a podcast on this decision by a Florida gun lawyer (this week in guns). He felt it was decided correctly based on bruen and this particular cases merits. The man was charged with possession of a firearm, no criminal record other than being in the USA illegally. Had a job and permanent housing in Chicago. the basis of the case was analogous laws put forward by the state were reviewed under bruen and found they were not analogous in text tradition, and history. Thus the plaintiff prevailed. After listening to him, this is probably a good decision and could be helpful in fighting gun control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Joker Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 @Alpo IIRC the 5th circuit doesn't understand why where I live should affect my implementation of a Right. If I am on a business trip and feel a need for self protection, why can't I buy a gun? The hell does it matter where I live? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 2 hours ago, Alpo said: I'm sure there are some states that would require that. Fortunately not all of them do. Florida, for example, says that I cannot sell a gun to someone that I know cannot buy one. That means I could not sell one to Hardpan because I know he's a California resident. I could not sell one to Smuteye because I know he's an Alabama resident. Could not sell one to Rolan, because I know he's a Georgia resident. But if Half Fast Bob came up to me at my yard sale wanting to buy a gun, if I did not KNOW that he was not a Florida resident, or I did not KNOW he had a criminal record, or I did not KNOW he was under the age of 18, I could legally sell him a gun. I am not required to see proof of residency or proof of age or proof of lack of a criminal record. Yet another example of why Florida is a good place to live. It’s really no big deal to ask a person to show some proof that he’s an Ohio resident to sell him a gun or for me to buy one. All it takes is to show the person a DL. or state ID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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