45 colt special brass

[Fallon Kid]

 Just a question: I picked up a box (500) 45 cowboy special brass.  Wondering about loads.  My powder is titegroup and bullet is 200gn hard cast. My RL1050 is already set up for 45acp and was thinking a just changing the plate and a few tweeks I could pop out 500 45 special  colts in an hour.  Normally I use 4.2 gns of TG in a long colt for a 200gn lead. Should I back off TG 3.8 – 4.0gns ?

I don’t have place to work-up and test as my local is closed for mud.  PM me for my phone number if you have experience with 45 special. Kinda  easy over the phone.

And………….non SASS related by I’m still ticked off.  I saw the brass at my local gun shop but I mainly went there to buy a .22 LR AR.  I have a Franklin Armory 5.56 w/ binary and wanted a 22 LR upper to have cheaper fun. I bought a S&W MP 22LR Sport AR.  Well got home and the S&W MP AR 22 will not fit on an AR lower. The pin holes on the S&W upper are off just enough to not attach but close enough for old people’s eyes to not see the difference. The gun shop person assured me it was a standard AR platform. Oh well, got another gun so all in all a good day.

 Just putting this out there for info.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

                                                       

[Leroy Luck]

I load 3.5gr of titegroup for a 180gr bullet. I’ve used as much as 4gr for the same bullet. The wife and I shoot them in pistols with absolutely no issues or complaints. 

[Sarge]

I found a .45 acp sizing die really works the brass.  I switched to a .45 Colt sizing die.  I also use a roll crimp.  I never had much luck with Titegroup.  Right now I'm using N320.  I shoot 160 gr. RNFP from Scarlet out of both pistols and rifle.

[Griff]

I load 4 grains of Titegroup with a 200 grain round nose in Cowboy 45 Special brass for a relatively light cowboy load.  I also prefer to use a 45 Colt sizing die.  The 45 ACP has more taper to the case than the Colt.  A roll crimp will serve you better whether in a pistol or rifle.  I use a RCBS # 18942 for the 45ACP/GAP/Auto Rim.

[Rye Miles #13621]

I load 3.6 grs of TiteGroup in a .38 with a 125 gr bullet. 

4.2 for a .45 sounds pretty light. I’d keep it at that no less.

[Leroy Luck]

6 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

4.2 for a .45 sounds pretty light. I’d keep it at that no less.

It is pretty light, which is all the more reason to like it. Even at 3.5grs it is quite a bit above minimum power factor in a 5.5” barrel. With a 180gr bullet. 160 would still be above power factor. 

[Lead Monger]

I’ve just begun to play with the Cowboy 45 special using a 45 Colt sizer and a ACP taper crimp seater. A 180g RNFP on top of 4.0g of Red Dot works pretty well.

[Eyesa Horg]

I was using 4.2gr Clays under a 160 rnfp. Worked well with some muzzle flip. Now working up a Cleanshot load. At 4.2, they are light, no muzzle flip and I can see the gold/yellow debris come out of the muzzle. When it warms up, will go up a couple tenths and see where we are!

[Skullbone Willie]

I’ve just started trying out the 45 Cowboy Special. After several test loads I’ve settled on 4.6 grains of Titegroup under a 160gn RNFP. It shoots great, little to no recoil and at this charge all the powder flakes burn up. I started at 4.0 but it was very dirty. I’m using 45 Colt dies with a 45 acp Taper Crimp, would prefer a Roll Crimp but using what I already have right now. 

Edited March 2 by Skullbone Willie

[Texas Jack Black]

   3.4 - Titegroup

  4.2 BullsEye

  5.5 231

  4.4 Cleanshot

 

 These with a 160 grain pill

 You can tweek  for your needs.  

 All with the Cowboy 45

                                                        I use Trail Boss  still working on my last 15 lbs  I still need to sweep up the remaining 100 lbs that fly all over the room when the heat kicks on

 

 Best Wishes

TJB

 

 

 PS these work for me and are not recommendations 

 

Edited March 1 by Texas Jack Black

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

When shooting smokeless, I like 4.0Gr Tight Group with 160Gr RNFP or 130Gr Barnstormer.  I cannot however, recommend using 45 ACP dies.  The ACP Sizing Die imparts a slight taper to the case, working it hard and allowing excess Blow-By of gun gasses.  I also don't recommend an ACP taper crimp.  Better powder burn with a roll crimp.

 

I recommend 45 Colt resizing die

A 45 ACP seating die is "OK"

I recommend a 45 Auto Rim Profile (roll) crimp die

[Lucky R. K.]

28 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

I recommend 45 Colt resizing die

A 45 ACP seating die is "OK"

I recommend a 45 Auto Rim Profile (roll) crimp die

That is the way to do it.

Lucky 

 

[Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474]

I'm using the starting loads for .45 ACP with Titegroup, a 200 gr. and .45ACP seating and crimp dies for my SAAs.

Saving what's left of my Clays and TB for the .45 Colt '73.

Seems to be working OK

 

 

[Fallon Kid]

Wrap Up….  Kinda

I finally ended up loading 45 CB Special on my Hornady LNL (more on that)*

Anyway I used 4gn TG behind a 200gn lead with a Genex primer.

On the size/decap I used an RCBS cowboy 45 colt die and the expander, and seating dies were an RCBS carb TC. Also used lock-out die which I recommend. Worked slick and made  a good looking bullet. All gaged OK

*I only made 200 rds hence using the LNL. I got a problem with the Hornady LNL in that right off I noticed high primers. Problem is after thousands+ rounds loaded with this press, there is an dimple in the press main body where the primer seating plunger contacts the main body when pushing down to seat a primer. I tried shimming with a dime and that worked for about 25 rounds before dimpling.  I emailed Hornady with problem and they gave me a trouble number but have not addressed problem. Tomorrow (Mon)  I will try to find a hard metal to shim primer plunger. Will go and test soon and check FPS.  And range is snowed in as this storm is hitting  pretty good. I’m 60 miles East of Reno in the desert. Who’d thunk it

[Captain Clark]

@Fallon Kid if you’re a DIY type person, it’s a relatively straight forward process to turn Colt cases into Cowboy Specials. I’ve turned lots of questionable tattered Colt cases into Cowboy Specials with excellent results. Let us know how your load testing goes!

[Warden Callaway]

I converted a few. But much better to buy if available. 

 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

I have many more purchased Starline Cowboy 45 Special cases split than I do old .45 Colt cases which I have cut down.    NOT much better to buy, in my experience.  And I've been shooting them 10 years now,.  All get loaded the same - the Starline cases just do not seem to be properly annealed at factory.

 

good luck, GJ

[Texas Jack Black]

7 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

I have many more purchased Starline Cowboy 45 Special cases split than I do old .45 Colt cases which I have cut down.    NOT much better to buy, in my experience.  And I've been shooting them 10 years now,.  All get loaded the same - the Starline cases just do not seem to be properly annealed at factory.

 

good luck, GJ

 Same here  and primer pockets have more issues IMHO

[Eyesa Horg]

9 minutes ago, Texas Jack Black said:

 Same here  and primer pockets have more issues IMHO

The only issue I've had with new StarLine C45S cases has been splits right down the side of a couple percent the first time loaded. After that, maybe a mouth crack or two a season. Been using the same batch of a thousand for several years. But as stated above, zero issues with cut down damaged colt brass.

[Captain Clark]

I’ve had some cracking with dedicated C45S cases more so than DIY cases! Seeing that Garrison Joe, Texas Jack Black and Eyesa Horg have experienced similar results, guess its not only my stuff!  

[Warden Callaway]

When I started getting splits I annealed them. I think 45 Colt sizing die works better than an ACP.  Maybe different by brand. 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Different by brand?  Only Starline makes C45Spl cases, by exclusive agreement with original commercial developer.

 

good luck, GJ

Edited March 8 by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

[slow poke gear]

47 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Different by brand?  Only Starline makes C45Spl cases, by exclusive agreement with original commercial developer.

 

good luck, GJ

I think he meant the sizing die. 

[Warden Callaway]

1 hour ago, slow poke gear said:

I think he meant the sizing die. 

Yeah, the sizing dies, not the brass.

[Sarge]

5 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said:

The only issue I've had with new StarLine C45S cases has been splits right down the side of a couple percent the first time loaded. After that, maybe a mouth crack or two a season. Been using the same batch of a thousand for several years. But as stated above, zero issues with cut down damaged colt brass.

I've had this issue with Starline and the cases I've cut down.  After talking with Starline, and others, I think there are several factors.  First, I believe the .45 ACP resizing dies really over work the cases causing them to become brittle.  Second, over crimping over works the brass.  Third, I don't bell the cases so much.  This allows me to reduce the crimp with the seating of the bullet, and the bullet doesn't jam down inside the case in the magazine tube.  

 

Starline suggested heating the cases up to about 450-475 degrees for 15 minutes.  These changes seem to have helped, split case have been greatly reduced.  Doesn't seem to happen at all any more unless it's cases I haven't heated up.

  

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

21 minutes ago, Sarge said:

 

Starline suggested heating the cases up to about 450-475 degrees for 15 minutes.

 

That was an attempt by Starline to have you anneal the cases.  If they told you to put them in an oven to do this, they gave poor advice, IMO.  You annealed the case heads as well as the body of the case, softening the case all over.  That can lead to case failures at the head with high pressures. 

 

Fortunately, Cowboy 45 Special is designed to be a very low pressure wild cat, so you may never have a case loaded for SASS use that fails with pressure.  And also fortunately, there are commercially made case annealers that properly apply the heat needed to anneal cartridge cases without softening the case head.

 

good luck, GJ

 

 

[Eyesa Horg]

28 minutes ago, Sarge said:

I've had this issue with Starline and the cases I've cut down.  After talking with Starline, and others, I think there are several factors.  First, I believe the .45 ACP resizing dies really over work the cases causing them to become brittle.  Second, over crimping over works the brass.  Third, I don't bell the cases so much.  This allows me to reduce the crimp with the seating of the bullet, and the bullet doesn't jam down inside the case in the magazine tube.  

 

Starline suggested heating the cases up to about 450-475 degrees for 15 minutes.  These changes seem to have helped, split case have been greatly reduced.  Doesn't seem to happen at all any more unless it's cases I haven't heated up.

  

Yup, definitely don't use an acp sizing die. 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

SAAMI specs hold the dimensions of sizing dies pretty consistent between different manufacturers. 

 

Now, the .45 auto (sometimes called .45 ACP) sizer does do a lot more sizing than a .45 Colt sizer does, overworking the case that originally was a .45 Colt (having thicker case walls than a .45 auto).  That is why I use a .45 Colt sizer in my die set for the Cowboy 45 Special cartridge,  it sizes close to 0.480, not 0.473" OD.

 

good luck, GJ

Edited March 8 by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708