Pat Riot Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Tomorrow I am headed to Winchester, VA to buy some Black Powder for a muzzleloader that I am building. The lady I spoke with recommended Goex. It’s made in USA and she said for someone starting out with old style front stuffers this is probably best. They have these powders: Goex Schuetzen Old Eynsferd Swiss And some other powder I cannot remember. I plan to pick up 3# FFG, 1# FFFG and 1#FFFFG. Some time this Spring I plan to get a Flintlock. Would you agree that Goex is the powder to go with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Goex will certainly work fine. Some say Swiss burn cleaner and produces more power. I generally by Grafs as it's usually available to me at a little less cost. I've never bought Swiss because I'm tight. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Old Eynsford is made by Goex. Schutzen and Swiss are basically the same. If the other powder is Grafs, it’s the same as Schutzen. At least it was the time I bought it. The above powders reportedly burn cleaner than regular Goex. I’ve noticed minor differences, but not enough to be meaningful, especially not for your needs as you’re not shooting 50+ rounds at a time. Go with the best price. They’re all excellent. 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 7 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said: Go with the best price. They’re all excellent. THIS ^^^^ 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jack Black Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 What are you building, from scratch or a kit, percussion or a flintlock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) Goex has been unobtanium for a while, but the new company is supposedly shipping. I've been using Shutzen for a few years now. I prefer FFF in my Hawken percussion gun. I think most use FF in the 50+ caliber. I feel the 3F is hotter,cleaner, and more consistent. JMHO I intend to use it my 54 cal flintlock if I ever finish it. In my Hawken I'm using 50gr by volume 3F, a lubed felt wad, .015 lubed patch and a .490 ball I cast myself from lead plumbing. They Chrono right about 1500 FPS. With 2F, I get about 1250 or so. Using 3F and lubed wads, I weekly during warm weather, shoot between 20 to 30 rounds up to the neighbors. OFWG (old farts with guns)! The last round loads just as easy as the first with zero swabbing. Just good ole load and shoot. Clean within a day or two. Under no circumstances, use Pyrodex, it will rust like a '75 Chevy pickup. Edited January 8 by Eyesa Horg 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Old E in 2F 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) This guy has a YouTube channel where he does a lot of black powder testing and development. He often uses the same flint lock rifle in his tests for consistency. May pick something out of his videos. I think he built a flintlock from a kit. https://youtube.com/@Everythingblackpowder?si=TBKbfj5g4-XsyURj Edited January 8 by Warden Callaway 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Slim SASS #24733 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Nobody misses the kid? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Texas Jack Black said: What are you building, from scratch or a kit, percussion or a flintlock? I am building / assembling a percussion Kentucky Rifle Kit from Traditions. It’s a .50 Cal. ————————————————— The cheapest powder they sell is the Goex at $25 per pound as well as Schuetzen. The other Old Eynsferd is $27 and the Swiss is $32. Edited January 8 by Pat Riot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 4 minutes ago, Springfield Slim SASS #24733 said: Nobody misses the kid? Who? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 23 minutes ago, Pat Riot said: I am building / assembling a percussion Kentucky Rifle Kit from Traditions. It’s a .50 Cal I'm building an Issac Haynes flintlock from a Jim Chambers kit in 54 cal. May have bitten off a little more than I can chew! Not looking forward to polishing the rough cast brass parts without losing the detail. Lot of inletting too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 1 hour ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said: Old Eynsford is made by Goex. Schutzen and Swiss are basically the same. If the other powder is Grafs, it’s the same as Schutzen. At least it was the time I bought it. The above powders reportedly burn cleaner than regular Goex. I’ve noticed minor differences, but not enough to be meaningful, especially not for your needs as you’re not shooting 50+ rounds at a time. Go with the best price. They’re all excellent. Good advice. I prefer Schuetzen to Goex if the price is close, but it's Ginger vs. Mary Ann mostly. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 50 minutes ago, Pat Riot said: I am building / assembling a percussion Kentucky Rifle Kit from Traditions. It’s a .50 Cal. ————————————————— The cheapest powder they sell is the Goex at $25 per pound as well as Schuetzen. The other Old Eynsferd is $27 and the Swiss is $32. At that price, buy a pound each of Old Eynsford, Goex, and Shuetzen in 2f, a pound of 3f OE, a pound of 4f Goex. Let us know what you think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigan Slim Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 I started with Goex when I was 16. Shot my first muzzleblaster deer with an 80 grain load of FFg behind a patched round ball. I will die hunting with the same load. It was a TC Renegade. My boy shot his first deer with that rifle and I lost it on the spot. I have a Great Plains now. I really like it but it's not my old Renegade. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 35 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said: At that price, buy a pound each of Old Eynsford, Goex, and Shuetzen in 2f, a pound of 3f OE, a pound of 4f Goex. Let us know what you think. That’s a good idea. Thank you. I understand that there can be variations between BP brands. This would be a good way to test them out. I appreciate the idea. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 hour ago, Pat Riot said: I am building / assembling a percussion Kentucky Rifle Kit from Traditions. It’s a .50 Cal. ————————————————— The cheapest powder they sell is the Goex at $25 per pound as well as Schuetzen. The other Old Eynsferd is $27 and the Swiss is $32. Lap the bore! You may want to recut the muzzle crown. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 46 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: Lap the bore! You may want to recut the muzzle crown. How would you lap the bore on a muzzleloader? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jack Black Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 hours ago, Pat Riot said: I am building / assembling a percussion Kentucky Rifle Kit from Traditions. It’s a .50 Cal. ————————————————— The cheapest powder they sell is the Goex at $25 per pound as well as Schuetzen. The other Old Eynsferd is $27 and the Swiss is $32. Should be an enjoyable build I have done several Kiblers and two Lyman Great Plains .FUN to do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 hour ago, Pat Riot said: How would you lap the bore on a muzzleloader? Being new, you should be able to remove the breach plug. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 48 minutes ago, Pat Riot said: How would you lap the bore on a muzzleloader? Very carefully 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 53 minutes ago, Pat Riot said: How would you lap the bore on a muzzleloader? I wrapped some 4/0 steel wool around a bore mop on a cleaning rod, soaked it in Kroil, and stroked the xxxx out of it! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 25 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said: Being new, you should be able to remove the breach plug. I tried removing the breech plug. That sucker is really in there. It’s almost as if it’s tack welded or something. The same goes for bolster. They’re frozen. It did just dawn on me that I could use some Kroil on the plug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Ron Wayne Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 I used to use Goex . Never had any issues with Goex . A few years back I went to the Sub of APP . It's a very simple powder to use and be lazy with . Rooster 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 ill toss my 2 bits in just because , id buy enough 3f to shoot the rifle and if its a flintlock enough 4f to prime the pan , im not against what others might use for whatever reason , im strictly speaking of what my biology teacher taught me as a kid , 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 hours ago, Pat Riot said: I tried removing the breech plug. That sucker is really in there. It’s almost as if it’s tack welded or something. The same goes for bolster. They’re frozen. It did just dawn on me that I could use some Kroil on the plug. Add some heat. To lap the bore, use a jag and a tight fitting cotton ball with lots toothpaste on it.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Rich Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Firelap it the only professional way to do it. NECO industries sells the kit. Follow their instruction and don't take any shortcuts. kR 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 32 minutes ago, Kid Rich said: Firelap it the only professional way to do it. NECO industries sells the kit. Follow their instruction and don't take any shortcuts. kR If I recall fire lapping takes a few rounds. On a muzzleloader this might be truly be a hassle. If the breech plug cannot be removed, sending the ball down the barrel for firing would probably only lap the first few inches of the bore while ramming the ball home. Unless, of course, I am missing something in the way this is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Rich Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) Don't use a round ball. Use a lead bullet unlubed and no patch . Use 1/2 of a full charge. 4 sizes of commercial grade grit, 4 bullets with each grit. The rifle/bore is cleaned after every shot. Grit sizes are 400, 600, 800 and 1200. the reason for half loads is the fire lapping is then the full length of the bore that the bullet/rb travels when it is fired in normal conditions. It also make cleaning the bore much easier. Normally takes 1 or 2 patches as compared to 10 or more for a new bore. It also should cutt your group size by >50 percent. kR PS do not remove the breach plug. Edited January 9 by Kid Rich 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 Thank you @Kid Rich ————————————————- I think before I consider fire lapping or hand lapping I will shoot it to see it’s accuracy. ———————————————— Well, I canceled my appointment to buy black powder today because of icy road conditions. I will go Thursday. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) Never lapped mine and it's a tack driver for an inexpensive rifle. Over 3000 rounds through it now. As above, I do run 80-85 gr. of powder for hunting. 50 for target shooting which is mostly what I do. One thing I did notice, is the POI is different by quite a bit bench rested compared to off hand. I support it right in front of the trigger guard with my palm when shooting off hand. Edited January 9 by Eyesa Horg Added text 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Rich Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 1st time I firelapped anything I did 5 muzzleloaders in one trip to the range. It took a while but was worth it. kR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jack Black Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Muzzleloaders can be picky about powder try a few brands and pick one that performs the best in your Rifle. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 I use Old Eyensfordfor precision shooting.on my C. Sharps .50-140, Goex in my 8 gauge double and for SASS matches in my 10 3 1/2 ten double and Goex in my 45 Ruger revolvers and my .45 Henry Big Boy for SASS That works for me! :-) 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jack Black Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 I would recommend 2F 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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