If you do buy a EV , you might not want a Hyundai

[Pb Mark]

6 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

We installed a large solar array about 10 years ago and took advantage of the tax breaks from the feds and state. Our monthly power bill back then was $750.00 and up, last year I believe we paid $557.00 for the year and all of that was fees and taxes. Our power bill now days without the solar system would be $1,500.00 month plus. There is going to a huge outcry someday, hopefully, when all electric that’s been foisted upon us fails because the power grid fails. Imagine sitting in the dark, freezing your ass off and nobody can do anything about it because their EV’s that they use to service the grid have dead batteries. 

Smart man.  Lucky too, able to afford the solar.

 

These newfangled gas hot water heaters use an electric powered blower to vent horizontally.  Maybe some people have them already installed.  When the lights go out, the gas water heater goes out with it.  This progress puts us back to the wood fire for hot bath water during a power outage.

 

I still remember the Euell Gibbons commercial phrase:  "There is a big difference between an active environmentalist and an environmental activist."  

 

Currently, would love to have a new 2023 Toyota HiLux for $13,200.... but will not get started on that ramble...  

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

21 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

We installed a large solar array about 10 years ago and took advantage of the tax breaks from the feds and state. Our monthly power bill back then was $750.00 and up, last year I believe we paid $557.00 for the year and all of that was fees and taxes. Our power bill now days without the solar system would be $1,500.00 month plus. There is going to a huge outcry someday, hopefully, when all electric that’s been foisted upon us fails because the power grid fails. Imagine sitting in the dark, freezing your ass off and nobody can do anything about it because their EV’s that they use to service the grid have dead batteries. 

Living in Florida, A/C and all electric appliances, and Winter Heat needed, never had a bill higher then 275.00. Even when I lived in Illinois I can't remember on the farm having a bill over 300.00.

that is high and can see doing alternatives also for when the grid is down.

[Buckshot Bob]

25 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Damn, I think my worst bill has been just under $150.

When I lived in CA it always amazed me how expensive everything was. The first time I got CA plates and registration on my car the lady at the DMV told me the price and I told her I only wanted them for a year not a lifetime. She was not amused 

[Yul Lose]

Step daughter and SIL were complaining the other night when they were over about their $900-$1,000 per month electric bill, of course I had to mention that ours averaged about $50.00 a month because of our solar array. They’ve talked about installing a solar array of their own but have drug their feet on it and now they’d have to pay for most of it on their own and don’t want to do it. They just bought a EV and secretly I can’t wait until they start getting the bill for charging that thing, I can hear the bitching now.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Yul Lose

[Subdeacon Joe]

23 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

They just bought a EV and secretly I can’t wait until they start getting the bill for charging that thing, I can hear the bitching now.

 

Depending on their driving habits it will likely only add about $50/month to their utility bills.    When gas was "only" $3.50/gal I was spending about that per week just to and from work (26 mile round trip(, plus shopping trip (about 4 miles round trip).  Now gas is $4.50 to $5.00 here.  At it's peak it was pushing $7. 

But, yeah, $50/month is so much less than $50/week.  ( now to wait for someone to dredge up the meme about the 43 cents/minute rate for commercial fast chargers and apply it to the charge time from 1% to 100% on a Level 1, 120 volt slow charger that you can plug into your ordinary house circuit and come up with over $1000 every time you charge)

 

Edited December 25, 2023 by Subdeacon Joe

[Pat Riot]

I will not have an electric car until I can trust the technology not to let me down. 

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

Then there is this. Now how do you charge or stay alive.

 

[Subdeacon Joe]

25 minutes ago, Pat Riot said:

I will not have an electric car until I can trust the technology not to let me down. 

 

 

So...you don't drive a car or ride a motorcycle?  Don't those break down?  
"OH!  Everything MUST be 100% PERFECT before I'll buy (fill in the blank)!  There must be no chance of breakdown, and there must be service every half mile!"  That's what I see people wanting. Same reasoning as this in the transition from horse to automobile

 

 

Oh,...and with "total grid collapse" you can't fuel your gas cars - those pumps run on electricity....

Edited December 25, 2023 by Subdeacon Joe

[Yul Lose]

On 12/25/2023 at 12:07 PM, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

Depending on their driving habits it will likely only add about $50/month to their utility bills.    When gas was "only" $3.50/gal I was spending about that per week just to and from work (26 mile round trip(, plus shopping trip (about 4 miles round trip).  Now gas is $4.50 to $5.00 here.  At it's peak it was pushing $7. 

But, yeah, $50/month is so much less than $50/week.  ( now to wait for someone to dredge up the meme about the 43 cents/minute rate for commercial fast chargers and apply it to the charge time from 1% to 100% on a Level 1, 120 volt slow charger that you can plug into your ordinary house circuit and come up with over $1000 every time you charge)

 

Let me dumb it down for you, Joe. They were already bitching about a $1,000.00 per month electric bill and they added to it with the EV, the granddaughter has a Leaf and when she comes down she has to borrow someone else’s gas powered car to get around because hers doesn’t have enough juice left in it to get around. Makes a lot of sense doesn’t it? She spends more time in my wife’s car driving around here than she does in hers. So tell me Joe how smart was it for them to get EV cars?????

Edited February 5 by Yul Lose

[Subdeacon Joe]

8 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

Let me dumb it down for you, Joe. They were already bitching about a $1,000.00 per month electric bill and they added to it with the EV, the granddaughter has a Leaf and when she comes down she has to borrow someone else’s gas powered car to get around because hers doesn’t have enough juice left in it to get around. Makes a lot of sense doesn’t it? She spends more time in my wife’s car driving around here than she does in hers. So tell me Joe how fucking smart was it for them to get EV cars?????

 

You're saying that she isn't smart enough to stop at a fast charger 15 or 20 miles from you.  It's called "planning."   It has zero to do with the technology or lack of infrastructure.  You are near Escondido if I recall correctly.  I did a quick search for "fast chargers near Escondido." Even I'm smart enough to plan ahead. 

 

Not like there aren't options.  
Question - if "she doesn't have enough juice to get around" how does she manage to get to a charger for her drive home?

Edited December 25, 2023 by Subdeacon Joe

[Pat Riot]

14 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

 

So...you don't drive a car or ride a motorcycle?  Don't those break down?  
"OH!  Everything MUST be 100% PERFECT before I'll buy (fill in the blank)!  There must be no chance of breakdown, and there must be service every half mile!"  That's what I see people wanting. Same reasoning as this in the transition from horse to automobile

 

 

Oh,...and with "total grid collapse" you can't fuel your gas cars - those pumps run on electricity....

I had a feeling you were going to come back with this type of logic. 
 

I will buy an EV when I trust them. Not before. And not because a fanboy tried to shame me into it. 

[Yul Lose]

5 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

You're saying that she isn't smart enough to stop at a fast charger 15 or 20 miles from you.  It's called "planning."   It has zero to do with the technology or lack of infrastructure.  You are near Escondido if I recall correctly.  I did a quick search for "fast chargers near Escondido." Even I'm smart enough to plan ahead. 

 

Not like there aren't options.  
Question - if "she doesn't have enough juice to get around" how does she manage to get to a charger for her drive home?

Simple, she plugs it into the slow charger over at her folks place and it sits there and charges while she’s running around in my wife’s car and oh by the way she’s to cheap to pay for a charge at a fast charger. Her and her dad both like to blast everyone for driving fossil fueled vehicles but when they need to borrow my truck or my wife’s car they don’t hesitate to ask. 
 

Oh, and by the way there aren’t any fast chargers out where we live.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Yul Lose

[Subdeacon Joe]

Just now, Pat Riot said:

I had a feeling you were going to come back with this type of logic. 
 

I will buy an EV when I trust them. Not before. And not because a fanboy tried to shame me into it. 

 

I;m not a "fanboy."  I'm just sick and tired of the double standard.  The new technology must be perfect and the infrastructure must be 10 years ahead of demand before you will "trust" it.  

[Subdeacon Joe]

1 minute ago, Yul Lose said:

Simple, she plugs it into the slow charger over at her folks place and it sits there and charges while she’s running around in my wife’s car and oh by the way she’s to cheap to pay for a charge at a fast charger. Her and her dad both like to blast everyone for driving fossil fueled vehicles but when they need to borrow my truck or my wife’s car they don’t hesitate to ask. 

 

You're then saying it has nothing to do with the technology, and everything to do with her being cheap and lazy.  

[Yul Lose]

1 minute ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

You're then saying it has nothing to do with the technology, and everything to do with her being cheap and lazy.  

Your reading comprehension skills are severely lacking.

[Pat Riot]

10 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

I;m not a "fanboy."  I'm just sick and tired of the double standard.  The new technology must be perfect and the infrastructure must be 10 years ahead of demand before you will "trust" it.  

Why? What does it matter if people do not like what you like, Joe?

 

[Subdeacon Joe]

3 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

Your reading comprehension skills are severely lacking.

 

Are they?  She can't be bothered to stop and pay $20 to charge her car before she gets to your place?  Sounds pretty cheap and lazy to me. What would you say if she drove a gas powered car and said something like, "I didn't want to stop and get gas before I got here and don't have enough to drive around, I need to use your car."?

 

I get your point about the hypocrisy of denigrating ICE cars while demanding to use your ICE vehicles.  

[Pb Mark]

A 7000# electric wonder mobile capable of sucking electric juice to the tune of 0-60 in 2.3 seconds VS got to move to Afghanistan for a very fuel-efficient diesel Toyota Tacoma.  Thanks.  This game has nothing to do with the environment.  1:16:90 Rule is unarguable.  Opinion only, of course.

 

[Yul Lose]

1 minute ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

Are they?  She can't be bothered to stop and pay $20 to charge her car before she gets to your place?  Sounds pretty cheap and lazy to me. What would you say if she drove a gas powered car and said something like, "I didn't want to stop and get gas before I got here and don't have enough to drive around, I need to use your car."?

 

I get your point about the hypocrisy of denigrating ICE cars while demanding to use your ICE vehicles.  

Thank god, I thought you’d totally lost all sense of reason like they have.

[Subdeacon Joe]

1 minute ago, Pat Riot said:

Why? What does it matter if people do not like what you like, Joe?

 

 

I don't care that they don't like the same things.  But take the OP of this thread, it implies that ALL batteries for this make cost $60,000 to replace.  Another post claims that ALL EV power packs need to be replaced at between 3 and 5 years.  

 

I think what irks me is that people who I view as reasonably intelligent pass on, and  believe, these obvious lies.  Kinda like if I see a motorcycle with a broken kickstarter and said that ALL motorcycles are junk because sometimes a part breaks.  

[Yul Lose]

15 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

Are they?  She can't be bothered to stop and pay $20 to charge her car before she gets to your place?  Sounds pretty cheap and lazy to me. What would you say if she drove a gas powered car and said something like, "I didn't want to stop and get gas before I got here and don't have enough to drive around, I need to use your car."?

 

I get your point about the hypocrisy of denigrating ICE cars while demanding to use your ICE vehicles.  

Guess what aggravates me most about the attitude of some of the EV crowd is that they belittle, berate, scold, ridicule or whatever you want to call it and then in nearly the same breath want to borrow your ICE car or truck because theirs doesn’t have enough juice or can’t haul enough or whatever and please, oh, please, oh please, oh please let me borrow yours. 

[Cholla]

I am interested in seeing more about the ammonia fueled engines. They are supposed to be a replacement for EVs but who knows. 

[Subdeacon Joe]

10 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

Thank god, I thought you’d totally lost all sense of reason like they have.

 

I saw no need to state the obvious.  And I stand by my initial take away.  

 

I see a lot of that kind of male bovine excrement up here in Sonoma County.  I have learned to ignore it for the most part.

 

I did have fun in a discussion with a lady from the local public broadcasting station.  A few months ago I did a bit with "One Small Step," signed up they matched you with someone of the opposite political views for about an hour of non-political discussion.  It's loosely modeled on old WPA Writers Project.  Anyway, the station recently staged a little "listening party" at a small independent theatre.  I declined, she asked if we could sit down and talk.  Sure, why not.  I described some of the vitriol I've put up with from some of the local o, so tolerant, diverse, and inclusive "progressives" in this county.  And that, given the listenership of PBS I figured that those types would make up the bulk of the people attending and I didn't feel like setting myself up for more of that kind of abuse.  She wasn't surprised to hear that as every conservative she talked with who participated had said roughly the same thing.  She was also affronted when I told her that my opinion of PBS/NPR is that it's nothing but a mouthpiece for the DNC.  

 

The One Small Step thing was kind of fun, but I think that their goal of finding ways to discuss things is just another "non-partisan" pipe dream.  Not because of ill will, but preconceived notions held by "progressives." My opposite number in the project kept harping on how she's nonjudgmental and doesn't like to be judged or stereotyped, but a few weeks ago emailed me this little gem:"

how do you within the context of your beliefs construe and construct and manage change like spaceships and quantum physics and morality and well even women voting or athesim or health or aging i mean the gamut

 

are you dogmatic or pragmatic are you romantic or optimistic or pessimistic"

 

She was affronted when I responded, in part, "What an extremely ignorant and bigoted question.   And from you, who claimed up, down, and sideways that you don't generalize or put people into groups or classes.  And, yes, you did generalize with the baseless assumption that people with deeply held Christian beliefs are ignorant, anti-science troglodytes.  So, once again you parrot standard left wing lies." with a list of famous Christian clergy who made important scientific discoveries.  Her response?

 

"I did not and I do not I’m asking because I want to  hear what you have to say there is no judgment I sent know you junk to loss of conclusions and are owned I to assume I think you are ignorant you are succumbing to your own bias" (yes, she doesn't use punctuation or capitalization).

 

I see no way of bringing that gap.

 

 

 

[Yul Lose]

1 minute ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

I saw no need to state the obvious.  And I stand by my initial take away.  

 

I see a lot of that kind of male bovine excrement up here in Sonoma County.  I have learned to ignore it for the most part.

 

I did have fun in a discussion with a lady from the local public broadcasting station.  A few months ago I did a bit with "One Small Step," signed up they matched you with someone of the opposite political views for about an hour of non-political discussion.  It's loosely modeled on old WPA Writers Project.  Anyway, the station recently staged a little "listening party" at a small independent theatre.  I declined, she asked if we could sit down and talk.  Sure, why not.  I described some of the vitriol I've put up with from some of the local o, so tolerant, diverse, and inclusive "progressives" in this county.  And that, given the listenership of PBS I figured that those types would make up the bulk of the people attending and I didn't feel like setting myself up for more of that kind of abuse.  She wasn't surprised to hear that as every conservative she talked with who participated had said roughly the same thing.  She was also affronted when I told her that my opinion of PBS/NPR is that it's nothing but a mouthpiece for the DNC.  

 

The One Small Step thing was kind of fun, but I think that their goal of finding ways to discuss things is just another "non-partisan" pipe dream.  Not because of ill will, but preconceived notions held by "progressives." My opposite number in the project kept harping on how she's nonjudgmental and doesn't like to be judged or stereotyped, but a few weeks ago emailed me this little gem:"

how do you within the context of your beliefs construe and construct and manage change like spaceships and quantum physics and morality and well even women voting or athesim or health or aging i mean the gamut

 

are you dogmatic or pragmatic are you romantic or optimistic or pessimistic"

 

She was affronted when I responded, in part, "What an extremely ignorant and bigoted question.   And from you, who claimed up, down, and sideways that you don't generalize or put people into groups or classes.  And, yes, you did generalize with the baseless assumption that people with deeply held Christian beliefs are ignorant, anti-science troglodytes.  So, once again you parrot standard left wing lies." with a list of famous Christian clergy who made important scientific discoveries.  Her response?

 

"I did not and I do not I’m asking because I want to  hear what you have to say there is no judgment I sent know you junk to loss of conclusions and are owned I to assume I think you are ignorant you are succumbing to your own bias" (yes, she doesn't use punctuation or capitalization).

 

I see no way of bringing that gap.

 

 

 

You may find this hard to believe but I’ve never once asked to borrow an EV, they hold absolutely zero appeal to me. I don’t sit there and beat someone over the head about them choosing to drive an EV but I do take exception to  them doing it to me on almost a weekly sometimes more often basis. Since I installed my solar system according to the read out I’ve saved nearly 328,000 lbs of CO2, my SIL who beats me over the head about EV’s has saved exactly zero and is probably responsible for 280,000 lbs, if you believe all of the environmental BS, but strangely my CO2 savings is negligible to him. 

[Pb Mark]

NHTSA comment period is about to begin for two more automotive initiatives.  

 

Remote shutoff switches and in car breathalyzers.  NHTSA sounds like they will be accepting public comments for the fact that both systems are expected to mot properly work at times.  General Motors will lead the change.  GM target date for 2024/25 all cars sold.  Fact.

 

Nothing political here folks, just the facts.  Automobile movement of people will be able to be controlled in the future, will it not?  

 

No new cars are appealing to me.  

 

One thing the EV push will probably provide is another multi-trillion-dollar spending spree supported by the general public to upgrade the electric grid.  

 

In 2016, all new cars had to provide tracking capability by law.  It is what it is, but sometimes wonder about our kid's future for many reasons beyond the cars they will drive or perhaps summons to ride in.  

Edited December 25, 2023 by Pb Mark
last paragraph

[Subdeacon Joe]

10 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

You may find this hard to believe but I’ve never once asked to borrow an EV, they hold absolutely zero appeal to me. I don’t sit there and beat someone over the head about them choosing to drive an EV

 

I don't find it hard to believe at all.  I was skeptical about them at first, and still see the limitations of them as I've said many times here.  And I've never "beat someone over the head" about not driving EVs, or even not liking them.  I have "beat them over the head" about some of the stupid and/or ignorant memes and comments about them.  Like the aforementioned using the cost per minute of a commercial fast charging station and the time to fully charge on a 120v charger to arrive at some ridiculously high cost to charge an EV, or the OP of this thread implying that all Hyundai EV batteries cost $60,000 to replace.  Heck, on other subjects I've been in the uncomfortable position of defending the likes of Obama, DiFi, or Pelosi when people on other fora posted "quotes" that they never said.  I'll haul them over the coals for things they actually said, but I see no need to drop to their level by attributing things to them that they never said, or changing the meaning by editing what they said to get it to mean the opposite.

[Buckshot Bob]

1 hour ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

I don't care that they don't like the same things.  But take the OP of this thread, it implies that ALL batteries for this make cost $60,000 to replace.  Another post claims that ALL EV power packs need to be replaced at between 3 and 5 years.  

 

I think what irks me is that people who I view as reasonably intelligent pass on, and  believe, these obvious lies.  Kinda like if I see a motorcycle with a broken kickstarter and said that ALL motorcycles are junk because sometimes a part breaks.  

The OP does not imply that all batteries for this make or any make cost that . They are discussing one model and two separate cases in Canada . They didn’t throw shade on any other ev and were laying out how ridiculously priced the replacement battery for this model is . This is as much about a manufacturer ripping off their customers as the cost of ev ownership. They have to be putting a premium mark up on that battery if it costs almost as much as an entirely new car. And quite honestly for that price point of a car half that price to replace the battery is still ridiculous. If that is anywhere near the true cost with any kind of reasonable markup the manufacturer would be losing money when they sell it . They are ripping off the consumer because they have no alternative. 

[Blackwater 53393]

58 minutes ago, Pb Mark said:

NHTSA comment period is about to begin for two more automotive initiatives.  

 

Remote shutoff switches and in car breathalyzers.  NHTSA sounds like they will be accepting public comments for the fact that both systems are expected to mot properly work at times.  General Motors will lead the change.  GM target date for 2024/25 all cars sold.  Fact.

 

Nothing political here folks, just the facts.  Automobile movement of people will be able to be controlled in the future, will it not?  

 

No new cars are appealing to me.  

 

One thing the EV push will probably provide is another multi-trillion-dollar spending spree supported by the general public to upgrade the electric grid.  

 

In 2016, all new cars had to provide tracking capability by law.  It is what it is, but sometimes wonder about our kid's future for many reasons beyond the cars they will drive or perhaps summons to ride in.  

My newest vehicle is a 2012 and it is likely that I won’t buy ANY new vehicle that contains that kind of tracking hardware/software!

 

Until the gooberment and their lackeys grow the testicular tissue to come and take my transportation,  I’ll drive vehicles that don’t provide that information and continue to repair and maintain them myself!!  
 

AND as long as they continue to use the kind of tactics that they are using to force their choice of vehicles on me, I WILL REFUSE TO CONFORM AND FURTHER REFUSE TO COMPLY!!!

 

 

Edited December 25, 2023 by Blackwater 53393

[Pb Mark]

6 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

AND as long as they continue to use the kind of tactics that they are using to force their choice of vehicles on me, I WILL REFUSE TO CONFORM AND FURTHER REFUSE TO COMPLY!!!

Facts:

 

Want to delete tracking data from your car? There’s an app for that

Here’s some good news. Privacy4Cars has a free iOS and Android app that deletes your personal information from vehicles you drive or are connected to. This includes your phone book, call logs, text messages, navigation history, home address, garage door codes, passwords, biometrics, vehicle credentials and more.

[JD Lud]

this might make both sides happy…Christmas night…made the 15 min drive to the the Super Charger as it’s free for six months….at Buc-cees!

 

got some brisket and pretty crowded for 9 pm

[Pb Mark]

There is good news for EV buyers:

 

(Dec 14,2023)

EV Inventories Hit Record High in US as Cars Pile Up on Dealer Lots

Now 114 days’ worth of supplies in US, twice last year’s level

Both Ford and GM are pulling back on production plans

[JD Lud]

Tried the full self driving on the way home….wow is all I can say.  Quite impressive….

 

weirdest thing is no lights at all on the dash….only the display screen.  

 

[Duffield, SASS #23454]

At the risk of hijacking this thread, I want toknow why there is not a standard battery pack for ALL evs with a standard connector so that any battery can be used in any ev? And why new batteries are not backward compatible with all older evs? 

If you need more capacity just add more batteries,  it works with power tools and flashlights.

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

42 minutes ago, Duffield, SASS #23454 said:

At the risk of hijacking this thread, I want toknow why there is not a standard battery pack for ALL evs with a standard connector so that any battery can be used in any ev? And why new batteries are not backward compatible with all older evs? 

If you need more capacity just add more batteries,  it works with power tools and flashlights.

The same reason that all vehicles don't have the same engines, transmissions, etc. Car makers like to do things their own way.  

[Ozark Huckleberry]

23 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

The whole thing:
 

 

23 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

His basic message: "I'm open minded enough to not automatically be against everything designed since 1939."

 

'The 'whole thing'? Seems like YOU omitted a bit too, eh?

 

 

It's not as if JD's prior post wasn't just a bit up the thread from mine -- thank goodness you were there to rescue the context for anyone who might have skipped it.

 

But for pity's sake, a light-hearted jibe and we need to get all righteous? Well, okay then.

 

 

Confirmation bias is a wonderful thing -- it lets us hear what we want to hear, and disregard the rest

 

 

YOUR take:

23 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

His basic message: "I'm open minded enough to not automatically be against everything designed since 1939."

MY take (based on the ACTUAL whole thing):

 

- JD said he believes a 'clean, efficient gas engine' is better than the electric batteries and requirements.

- His driving requirements don't place a large demand on a vehicle.

- He found there were sufficient financial incentives to buying an EV that gave him reason to set aside his reservations about EVs.

- Given those considerations, the cost advantages created by an ideologically-driven government using taxpayer funds and extra-legislative regulatory coercion made it worthwhile to buy a vehicle that he otherwise might not have considered.

 

Lots of people can be 'open-minded', for a profit. The government approach to EVs depends on. shoveling enough taxpayer money into the bottomless pit of the EV market to buy that open-mindedness.

 

 

To be clear, I do not condemn or 'take to task' JD for buying an EV. Or from benefitting from the incentives. Taking advantage of a deal is a rational economic decision, like deciding to pick up money you find laying on the ground. Duh.

 

But if I know that the money you found on the ground was stolen from me to begin with, I might congratulate you on your good fortune, but don't expect that buying yourself a new hat with it will make me less grumpy about the theft.

 

And I have repeatedly said I am not against EVs, and I even accept that there are situations in which EVs could have advantages. JD's is likely to be such a situation.

 

I AM against fascism-lite government strategies that deliberately erode the U.S. economy in an effort to manipulate the market, coerce manufacturers, and selectively transfer wealth from one group of consumers to another (and seem to excel at investing national resources into failure-prone industry niches) to advance an ideological goal of dubious worth.

 

On a side note -- 1939 seems to be a banner year for your paradigm of automotive antiquity. What piques you about that year -- seat belts? Dimmable headlights? Automatic transmissions? 

 

There's been LOTS of ICE improvements since 1939. Using that as  a reference is kinda like saying EVs use technology that Ben Franklin was experimenting with. But when we're reaching for a supercilious tone, details really don't matter, do they?

 

Edit: Minor grammatical tweaks.

Edited December 26, 2023 by Ozark Huckleberry