Why 350 legend?

[Trigger Mike]

I’m seeing a lot of single shot and bolt action and AR style rifles in 350 legend along with a S & W revolver.  My son even drools over them.  
 

what does a .350 legend do that a .308 or 30.06 doesn’t?

 

what kind of recoil would that do in a revolver?

[Dilli GaHoot Galoot]

It's legal in straight wall only hunting states, works well in a standard frame AR, has manageable recoil in rifles, suppresses well and ammo is easier to find than 38-55 or 35 Rem 

 

Recoil in revolvers isn't supposed to be bad, but apparently they are like the 30 carb in a handgun with a loud and sharp muzzle blast 

[Buckshot Bob]

They are all that is allowed for a rifle in southern Michigan “ straight walled cartridges” . Before they cam up with these shorter straight walled cartridges hunters there were limited to using a shotgun, muzzle loader , or pistol caliber rifle. Although there are some pretty advanced slug guns and muzzle loaders available these seem to be the hot ticket right now for those restricted zones . I don’t remember what the maximum case length is but a 45-70 is illegal in the limited firearms areas of Mi . Local gunshops couldn’t get enough of them the first few years . There’s a couple different calibers they have come out with but the 350 seems to be the latest greatest . 

[Shawnee Hills]

18 minutes ago, VinnieBoomBah said:

It's legal in straight wall only hunting states

 

This and it's a great cartridge for whitetails.  Gets the job done without a lot of meat damage, is accurate, and little recoil.  Many hunters are switching to it from the shoulder-thumping shotgun slugs.  The downside is that it's difficult to get that long, thin, straight wall round to feed well from a magazine.

[Dilli GaHoot Galoot]

4 minutes ago, Shawnee Hills said:

 

This and it's a great cartridge for whitetails.  Gets the job done without a lot of meat damage, is accurate, and little recoil.  Many hunters are switching to it from the shoulder-thumping shotgun slugs.  The downside is that it's difficult to get that long, thin, straight wall round to feed well from a magazine.

I had a BCA side charger upper for a while and ran CMMG 350L 20 round mags, never had a problem. 

[Dantankerous]

350 Legend Gun Porn

 

[Still hand Bill]

Came about as a low recoil way to hunt with an AR-15 in Midwest states where the laws limit cartridges to straight wall, 35 cal, and a case no longer than 1.8”.   Other options,357 Max,  360 buckhammer and 450 bushmaster, etc.
 

the 350 legend is a 9mm (not .358”) bullet in what is basically a straight 223 case.  So no rim.  It’s specific brass, so you can’t use 223 brass, but it’s almost the same.   Recoil is probably a bit more than a 357 mag as ballistics are similar to 357 Max.  
 

360 buckhammer is a true .358 diameter and uses a straightened and shortened 30-30 case.  Slightly more velocity than the legend, but being rimmed is lever, angle shot, and revolver.  Can buy Henry rifles or rebarrel/rebore a Marlin.  Essentially a longer and SAAMI spec 357 maximum.  Although by using 30-30 brass it has taper.  

[Dantankerous]

Plenty of ammo availability too. Prices affordable.

 

 

[J-BAR #18287]

Sorry to display my ignorance, but what problem does the "straight wall only" restriction solve?

[Dilli GaHoot Galoot]

2 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

Sorry to display my ignorance, but what problem does the "straight wall only" restriction solve?

 

Actual problem?  None.  The perceived problem was bullets flying miles and miles past the target endangering folks 3 counties over.   The bottle neck makes them defy the laws of physics or something I guess 

[Buckshot Bob]

1 minute ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

Sorry to display my ignorance, but what problem does the "straight wall only" restriction solve?

Supposedly range in populated areas. At least that was always the stated reason in Mi , it’s government at work . I knew people shooting 500 yards with muzzle loaders years ago. 

[Pb Mark]

Great name for a cartridge.  What does it do you ask?  It sells new guns.

[Dantankerous]

1 minute ago, Pb Mark said:

Great name for a cartridge.  What does it do you ask?  It sells new guns.

Yup, just like the even newer 360 Buckhammer.

[Pb Mark]

The 370 DragonSlayer coming next after the 360 Buckhammer.... next?

[Michigan Slim]

They had that same restriction here in Indiana. The state allowed a trial period with high power rifles on private ground. There were ZERO issues associated with the use, so they allow it on private ground now, after the trial. NOT on State lands that are pretty crowded. I had trimmed back .45-70 brass but seated a 405-grain bullet to the same overall length. It shot just fine. Not much brass holding the bullet, but it worked well in my single shot.

[Buckshot Bob]

24 minutes ago, Pb Mark said:

Great name for a cartridge.  What does it do you ask?  It sells new guns.

I resemble that remark. Just got a 6 creedmoor with a fiberglass bbl. I always tell my wife I could be wasting this money at the bar, at least you’ll have my guns to sell when I kick the bucket 

[sassnetguy50]

2 minutes ago, Buckshot Bob said:

I resemble that remark. Just got a 6 creedmoor with a fiberglass bbl. I always tell my wife I could be wasting this money at the bar, at least you’ll have my guns to sell when I kick the bucket 

More details about the fiberglass barrel please, never heard of that before. 

 

Add 400 Legend to the list of new cartridges. 

 

@Dantankerous great pictures.  Found this review of that heavy Smith.

"I brought my Ruger Super Redhawk .44 magnum to the range and fired each gun in succession. The .44 gives a big push, and there’s plenty of bang. The 350’s recoil is negligible, but that roar (which is enhanced by the brake) is enough to put inexperienced shooters on edge. The Model 350’s bark is far worse than its bite."

https://www.handgunsmag.com/editorial/model-350-revolver-review/464983

 

[Sixgun Seamus]

36 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

Sorry to display my ignorance, but what problem does the "straight wall only" restriction solve?

I was at a Sportsmans dinner several years back. I had a Cowboy display and a reloading demonstration so I had different cowboy cartridges there on display. The speaker was from the Ohio DNR. I showed him a 38 special and a 44-40 Cartridge and pointed out the absurdity that the 38 was legal for deer hunting in Ohio but the 44-40 was not. (Even though the 44-40 has been used probably on more deer on this continent second only to the 30-30)

He agreed but he said he only enforces the laws and doesn't make them. 

[Shawnee Hills]

1 hour ago, Still hand Bill said:

Other options,357 Max,  360 buckhammer and 450 bushmaster, etc.

 

The 357 Maximum is a great deer cartridge but finding firearms chambered for it can be a challenge.  Haven't seen the 360 being used much but the 450 is out there.  However, based on close inspections of whitetail carcasses taken with the 450, it's overkill.  A shot that hits bone results in a lot of ruined meat.  Deer hit with it often have more damage than even those taken with a shotgun loaded with sabot slugs.  Of course, that can be mitigated with proper shot placement but that doesn't seem to of top priority for a lot of hunters.

 

Even 200+ lb. midwestern whitetails are easy to put down.  Those that hate tracking will often choose the neck as their aiming point.  DRT for sure.  A double lung or heart shot works well also but they will run.

[Shawnee Hills]

1 minute ago, Sixgun Seamus said:

I was at a Sportsmans dinner several years back. I had a Cowboy display and a reloading demonstration so I had different cowboy cartridges there on display. The speaker was from the Ohio DNR. I showed him a 38 special and a 44-40 Cartridge and pointed out the absurdity that the 38 was legal for deer hunting in Ohio but the 44-40 was not. (Even though the 44-40 has been used probably on more deer on this continent second only to the 30-30)

He agreed but he said he only enforces the laws and doesn't make them. 

 

He's correct.  It's the lawmakers in Columbus that need to hear from the constituents.  The folks that work for the ODNR have very little control over what is allowed.

[sassnetguy50]

1 hour ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

Sorry to display my ignorance, but what problem does the "straight wall only" restriction solve?

I only attended 2 public hearings on the proposal.  

1- hunting is a dieing sport.  Expanding legal methods of take to low recoil cartridges that won't scare off todays youth and will extend senior hunting years.

2- straight wall cartridges outlined at the meeting all had a rainbow trajectory.  They were talking about how this trajectory is the same as shotgun slugs so there is no change in sportsmanship or fair chance for the deer.  They showed 300 win mag trajectory as a contrasting example of how bottleneck cartridges are completely different and are rightly banned as unsportsmanlike.   Safety of others in the distance was not mentioned at either meeting, rightfully so, as knowing beyond your target is responsible shooting.

[Buckshot Bob]

1 hour ago, sassnetguy50 said:

More details about the fiberglass barrel please, never heard of that before. 

 

 

 

This will explain it better than I would. It the newest latest greatest 

 

[Pb Mark]

When buying powder to reload a newfangled smallbore cartridge, which would you pick?

 

1. AA2230

2. Ramshot X-Terminator

[Michigan Slim]

1 hour ago, Shawnee Hills said:

 

 

Even 200+ lb. midwestern whitetails are easy to put down.  Those that hate tracking will often choose the neck as their aiming point.  DRT for sure.  A double lung or heart shot works well also but they will run.

I was worried about my daughters .243 being too little. Uh, no. Heart and lungs turn to jelly. I put it right up there with my .270 inside of 300 yards. Her deer DIE.

[Still hand Bill]

2 hours ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

Sorry to display my ignorance, but what problem does the "straight wall only" restriction solve?

It is usually coupled with a minimum of 35 caliber and a maximum case length.  This limits cartridge choices to low BC and slower speeds due to less powder and larger caliber bullets having poor BC until heavy for caliber.  This all means the effective range is 200-300 yards.    Lawmakers think this is safer than allowing 300 rem mag, 6.5 prc, etc that have 800+ yard effective ranges.   Many of these states were shotgun only 10-15 years ago and the push was to allow rifles to encourage deer hunting, but they didn’t want to allow long range cartridges.  
 

Iowa is one of those states and the one I am now familiar with.  It was shotgun only, then straight wall, and 3 years ago went to minimum 35 cal, but can be bottleneck.   35 Whelen has taken off.  People go, why can’t I use a 30-06, but can use the whelen?   Even though they shoot the same weight bullet and speed, a 30-06 has a BC of .452 vs the whelen is a .282.  Using like bullets (Hornady spirepoint).  That limits the range of the whelen to shorter shots and they will carry a shorter distance.  
 

 

[Buckshot Bob]

11 minutes ago, Pb Mark said:

When buying powder to reload a newfangled smallbore cartridge, which would you pick?

 

1. AA2230

2. Ramshot X-Terminator

It depends on cartridge and bullet weight, and if you’re looking for a target load or you want the maximum velocity. How important is temperature stability to you? And even after you determine all these things you’ll probably still have three or four choices 

[Still hand Bill]

6 minutes ago, Michigan Slim said:

I was worried about my daughters .243 being too little. Uh, no. Heart and lungs turn to jelly. I put it right up there with my .270 inside of 300 yards. Her deer DIE.

There is a huge discussion going on a long range hunting forum where the discussion is using 223 or 243 to take deer and elk with the right bullets.  This will be the direction the industry goes long term.  A lot less recoil and just as effective as the bigger cartridges. 

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

360 Buckhamr is better, to me

But so is the 375…..

[Buckshot Bob]

8 minutes ago, Still hand Bill said:

There is a huge discussion going on a long range hunting forum where the discussion is using 223 or 243 to take deer and elk with the right bullets.  This will be the direction the industry goes long term.  A lot less recoil and just as effective as the bigger cartridges. 

It’s honestly about shot placement as long as you can get the required penetration. The bullets we have today are much better. I’ve seen deer gut shot with all manner of rifles that hunters never recovered. And many shot with a bow that never made it past 100 yards. When I was a kid one of my dad’s friends was the first guy I ever met that was a handgun hunter . He used a 6” Python, and I don’t remember him ever not recovering a deer he shot . He was a good shot and respected the limitations of his chosen tool . A 223 with some of the bullet designs they have today will penetrate a lot of meat for such a little cartridge. 

[Pb Mark]

Ramshot X-Terminator is the exact same powder as AA 2230...  Just an example of smart marketing.  Other powders with cool names are often also the exact same powder as older, not cool name.

 

Absolutely not knocking any of the new cartridges.  They are selling more guns well.  What the ballistics designers have actually done with new ones like 6mm / 6.5mm Creedmoor is actually improve the bullet shapes and chamber dimensions.  They will shoot farther than older ones like 243 because the throats are longer and tighter, the rifling lead-ins are improved, and the long, sleek bullets have better ballistic coefficients.  The game is improving and that is a good thing.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

1 hour ago, sassnetguy50 said:

fair chance for the deer.

 

[Buckshot Bob]

20 minutes ago, Pb Mark said:

Ramshot X-Terminator is the exact same powder as AA 2230...  Just an example of smart marketing.  Other powders with cool names are often also the exact same powder as older, not cool name.

 

Absolutely not knocking any of the new cartridges.  They are selling more guns well.  What the ballistics designers have actually done with new ones like 6mm / 6.5mm Creedmoor is actually improve the bullet shapes and chamber dimensions.  They will shoot farther than older ones like 243 because the throats are longer and tighter, the rifling lead-ins are improved, and the long, sleek bullets have better ballistic coefficients.  The game is improving and that is a good thing.

Some like the two mentioned are , but others that have the same designation are not . Like 4350 or blue dot . Hogdson 4350 is also known for being very temperature insensitive , I’m not sure if the other 4350’s have that magical ability. Could be but I’ve never investigated it 

Hogdson seems to have the rights to the lions share of powders today. Winchester 296 and H110 are also supposed to be the exact same thing in a different bottle. 
I guy who used to work at Winchester when they still actually owned the powder company once told me that you never knew exactly what you were going to get when you were shooting to make a certain burning rate . Sometimes they would miss the mark by enough that they couldn’t sell it as what they were trying to make . Then they would use it in there own ammo or sell it to another ammunition manufacturer. This was when I was a kid so hopefully there techniques are better today. 

[Wallaby Damned]

2 hours ago, Pb Mark said:

When buying powder to reload a newfangled smallbore cartridge, which would you pick?

 

1. AA2230

2. Ramshot X-Terminator

You didn’t list it but AA5744 is pretty nice in any straight wall case. 

[Trigger Mike]

that debate about .223 is why took a buck the other day with a .223 hornady 75 grain boat tail.  it went 20 feet and dropped.  a buddy and I never did find the entry wound an after moving it around a lot finally found a small exit that wasnt bleeding at all . i imagine a 350 legend will do better .  I take it, the 350 legend is a lot like the 35 remington i inherited from my dad.  it does well.  

 

last time and i went hunting we sat on a field with a trail between us.  I had just got back from Iraq and while hunting fell asleep and awoke to the sound of him firing and a buck falling between us, but a few steps ahead of me.

[Buckshot Bob]