Marine guards question

[Alpo]

Movie. The Final Countdown. Very beginning.

 

This Cadillac limo pulls up at the gate to Pearl Harbor. Pushes the button and the window goes down.

 

The driver says, "Mr. Tideman", and the Marine salutes and steps back and lets them in the gate.

 

Mr Tideman. Not General Tideman. Not Senator Tideman. Mister.

 

I didn't catch it until I had the subtitles turned on and ran back and watched it again.

 

Now it is my understanding that the military, and the cops, in Mexico, Central and South America, salute non-military all the time. They pull you over for speeding and then salute as they walk up to the window.

 

But I didn't think our military did things like that. I thought our military only saluted military. They salute the president because he's the Commander in Chief which makes him the highest ranking military officer in the country. But I don't know if they would salute a senator or a congressman. Seems like they would just wave them through the gate.

 

And this guy wasn't even a senator or a congressman. Just a mister.

 

So in real life, as opposed to in this movie, would the Marine guard have saluted?

 

I personally do not ever recall going on a base with a Marine guard. Apes and DOD-civilians. But I've never been saluted. Just waved through. I don't recall my parents ever being saluted. Of course Daddy was enlisted so he didn't rate a salute.

[Pat Riot]

30 minutes ago, Alpo said:

So in real life, as opposed to in this movie, would the Marine guard have saluted?

Nope! 

 

 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

1 hour ago, Alpo said:

 

So in real life, as opposed to in this movie, would the Marine guard have saluted?

 

I personally do not ever recall going on a base with a Marine guard. Apes and DOD-civilians. But I've never been saluted. Just waved through. I don't recall my parents ever being saluted. Of course Daddy was enlisted so he didn't rate a salute.

The Marine would not have saluted. 

As for Military bases, Marine Corps bases have Marine Guards at all gates. If you need to go through the Visitor's Center, you will deal with Marines. 

Also, Marine bases have Marine cooks, Messman, maintenance people, etc. As far as I know, Marines do everything on Marine bases except maybe groundskeeping. 

Heck, when my Company went to the Rifle Range, several of us stayed an extra week as Working Parties for whatever the Base Maintenance Staff Sgt. needed us to do.  

[Cypress Sun]

"They're going to let the Japs do it again". 

 

Not politically correct these days, but it's the best line out of the movie.

[Perro Del Diablo]

Since you didn't see person in car he could have been someone that has earned the salute. Otherwise the hand gesture to pass looks similar to a salute but closer to chest level.

[Alpo]

53 minutes ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

As for Military bases, Marine Corps bases have Marine Guards at all gates

Only time I've ever been on a Marine Base is when we went to see my brother graduate Parris Island. Every other base has been either Air Force or Navy. Never been on an army base.

 

Came close once. What's that fort by Columbus? Benning? Bragg? I think it starts with a B.

 

Anyway. It is early October, 2001. 3 weeks after 9/11. And I missed my turn to get off 185 and get on 431 to go back down to Florida. And suddenly I find myself in line to go on this army base. I'm coming home from Mississippi Fandango.

 

3 weeks after a terrorist attack and the whole country is on alert, and I'm driving up to an army base with six pistols four rifles and three shotguns in the truck.

 

I got out of line and drove across the median and went the other way. I do not know how they would have reacted to that minor arsenal, but I did not wish to find out.

[Pat Riot]

I know in Great Lakes and Norfolk Naval Base we had Marines at all the guard shacks and on patrol. They also ran the brigs and restricted barracks in Great Lakes. 
When vehicles passed through the gates with enlisted base pass you were waved through. Officers were saluted then waved through. Civilians including politicians were if they had a base pass were waved through. If not they were diverted to visitor parking and had to go into the security office and fill out paperwork to get access. 
At Guantanamo Bay Naval Base Marines handled everything in regards to security. 

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

Do they still have stickers for the cars that say “officer”?  We would salute that.

[Pat Riot]

1 minute ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

Do they still have stickers for the cars that say “officer”?  We would salute that.

Blue for enlisted.

Red for officer. 

If I remember correctly. 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

1 minute ago, Pat Riot said:

Blue for enlisted.

Red for officer. 

If I remember correctly. 

Black for retired.

[Itchy Trigger]

As a dependent Civilian I would be saluted on a regular basis when driving my officer father's car due to the O6 sticker on the window.

 

Since 9-11 (depends on the base) they actually check ID's first and make sure that there is a DOD employee/dependent in the car (and the others have valid ID; even if it is a Japanese passport) and then salute whether the officer is in the car or not.

[Chief Rick]

11 minutes ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

Do they still have stickers for the cars that say “officer”?  We would salute that.

No.  No outwardly visible identification.  ID cards only.

[Chief Rick]

1 hour ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

As far as I know, Marines do everything on Marine bases except maybe groundskeeping. 

 

And medical/dental.

 

Maybe even more. With outsourcing, more and more supply and ancillary jobs are being done by civilians.

[PowderRiverCowboy]

11 minutes ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

Do they still have stickers for the cars that say “officer”?  We would salute that.

 

9 minutes ago, Pat Riot said:

Blue for enlisted.

Red for officer. 

If I remember correctly. 

 They havent done decals for years on many bases . the cost involved with issuing them tracking ect . Also was part of the reasoning that off Post they could be targeted .

That Being said a Marine would Not be on a gate at Pearl Harbor and its Joint base  Hickam(USAF) and Pearl (USN) so they have Navy/ Air Force gate guards . The  Marine Corps base Kaneohe Bay is the other side of island .

But No salute is a Mister 

[Itchy Trigger]

4 minutes ago, PowderRiverCowboy said:

That Being said a Marine would Not be on a gate at Pearl Harbor and its Joint base  Hickam(USAF) and Pearl (USN) so they have Navy/ Air Force gate guards . The  Marine Corps base Kaneohe Bay is the other side of island .

 

As a side note, I have seen Marines guarding the INNER gate next to freedom tower that connects Hickam AFB and Pearl Harbor NB, not often but just enough to keep people honest. So, if he was using "that" entrance to Pearl Harbor it could have been a Marine.

[PowderRiverCowboy]

6 minutes ago, Itchy Trigger said:

 

As a side note, I have seen Marines guarding the INNER gate next to freedom tower that connects Hickam AFB and Pearl Harbor NB, not often but just enough to keep people honest. So, if he was using "that" entrance to Pearl Harbor it could have been a Marine.

 How long ago was that I was there 09-12 Never  saw that gate have a guard , . Fun Marine fact of the day is they had the standard red sign with gold letters on Chesty Pullers house at Pearl Harbor .

 I always hated the fact that on a "military only " road from Vilseck Germany to Graf they had full guarded gates on both Vilseck and Graf sides with training area in between ?? 

[Smuteye John SASS#24774]

1 hour ago, Alpo said:

Only time I've ever been on a Marine Base is when we went to see my brother graduate Parris Island. Every other base has been either Air Force or Navy. Never been on an army base.

 

Came close once. What's that fort by Columbus? Benning? Bragg? I think it starts with a B.

 

Anyway. It is early October, 2001. 3 weeks after 9/11. And I missed my turn to get off 185 and get on 431 to go back down to Florida. And suddenly I find myself in line to go on this army base. I'm coming home from Mississippi Fandango.

 

3 weeks after a terrorist attack and the whole country is on alert, and I'm driving up to an army base with six pistols four rifles and three shotguns in the truck.

 

I got out of line and drove across the median and went the other way. I do not know how they would have reacted to that minor arsenal, but I did not wish to find out.

And that's when you got around to asking me how to avoid that by getting off at Exit 10 (US 80 West) and crossing the river north of town to get to US 431 instead of going all the way down to Exit 1 and doubling back to the Alabama border along Victory Drive.

They put the building where you get passes to go on post outside the gate and you can turn around there if you missed the turn.

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

4 hours ago, Alpo said:

Apes and DOD-civilians.

The thing that always bothered me when entering a base overseas is seeing "sentries" from THAT COUNTRY on the gates. I NEVER trusted that. 

I mean, if the locals decide that they have a problem over there, and the "sentry's" Brother in Law shows up to cause trouble, what's he going to do? Where do his loyalties lie? 

[Itchy Trigger]

2 hours ago, PowderRiverCowboy said:

How long ago was that I was there 09-12 Never  saw that gate have a guard ,

 

'87-90.

 

Due to Hawaiian State Law, at least up until 9-11 and prob. afterwards I routinely rode a bicycle up to the Marine Corps Base Hawaii in Kaneohe and if you knew the local kama'aina phrase at the gate they would allow you to just ride unsupervised onto the base, OVER THE FLIGHTLINE (and believe me I watched the red/green lights for an approaching aircraft) to a nice little secluded beach on the other side. 

[Alpo]

2 hours ago, Smuteye John SASS#24774 said:

And that's when you got around to asking me how to avoid that by getting off at Exit 10 (US 80 West) and crossing the river north of town to get to US 431 instead of going all the way down to Exit 1 and doubling back to the Alabama border along Victory Drive.

Yep

 

3 hours ago, PowderRiverCowboy said:

That Being said a Marine would Not be on a gate at Pearl Harbor

 

They never said it was Pearl. But he got in the Navy helicopter and they flew over the Arizona, so I just assumed it was Pearl.

 

3 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

Do they still have stickers for the cars that say “officer”?

 

My brother used to have a four-door Pontiac that was the exact shade of Air Force blue.

 

Daddy was at Keesler for bypass surgery, so me and my brother and his wife and our mother were also at Keesler. Back then the base was basically open. But they would close the gates at 6:00, and you needed to be military to get back in.

 

The four of us have gone into Biloxi for supper, and as we return to the base it's past the time the gate was closed. So Robert is slowing down, while Mama is rolling the back window down so she can show the guard her dependent ID so we can get on base.

 

And the Ape at the gate saw that Air Force blue four-door, and opened the gate and waved us through.

 

We stopped anyhow and Mama show him her ID card, but we didn't have to.

 

That was a fun time - that visit. We go to the guest house. Since Daddy was career military we had always had short hair, and back then we were both still slim and trim. So the young airman who was playing desk clerk wanted to know our ranks. We told him civilian. He told us we could not stay there.

 

We said certainly we could, because we were there visiting our father who was in the hospital. Well in that case he needed to know his rank. We told him retired.

 

Well, what WAS his rank?

 

ADCS.

 

Huh?

 

Senior Chief Petty Officer?

 

Huh?

 

E8?

 

Okay, he knew what that was.

[Tennessee Trapper Tom]

Deleted

[Three Foot Johnson]

6 hours ago, Pat Riot said:

Blue for enlisted.

Red for officer. 

If I remember correctly. 

And I was thinking blue for officers and red for enlisted... but that's been over 45 years ago, so...? 

 

(edit) Second to last paragraph -

 https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/military/sdut-navy-base-decal-july-2013jun04-story.html

[Pat Riot]

@Three Foot Johnsonjust clarified it. It was blue for officers and red for enlisted. Not the other way around as I thought it was. 
 

So, now there are traffic jams getting into bases…good move. Taliban wants to take out some specific officers or enlisted just wait until they line up for you… no biggie. 

[Alpo]

Back when I was maybe 14. The Air Force Base has got a divided highway running through the middle of it. The east side of the highway is the living side of the base. Got base housing, the hospital, the BX, class VI, the commissary, the bowling alley, and all the other stuff that makes a military base a little town. And anybody could go on that side. If I wanted to go visit my friend staff sergeant Johnson I just drove to his house. No hoo hoo.

 

The west side of the highway was the secure side. The runways the hangers - the Air Force side of the base. It was fastFENCED and it was guarded and you HAD to be allowed in there.(it was fast? damn otto, you're getting stupider by the day)

 

Since the east side was an open base, we didn't need a sticker.

 

So we're going to the commissary one day and as we go around the curve, sitting up there in the trees there's six Highway Patrol cars. And Daddy says, "Speed trap". The base, being military, could not judge civilians. If an Ape pulled over a military guy for excessive speed, they could fine him. But if he pulled over a civilian they couldn't do anything to him so they just let him go. And when the speeding got so bad, they would bring out the Highway Patrol. Road paytrol gave you a ticket, you go up before judge and pay a fine. And they would have the Road Patrol there until speeders slow down.

 

So few years later we're going out there again, and as we passed the school (it's Saturday, so the parking lot should be empty) Mama says "damn!"

 

What? "Didn't you see that blue car andIN the school parking lot? Speed trap." And we go around the curve and there's three more blue cars lined up at the side of the road, and an Ape out there waving us over. As we blew past the radar back there at the school he had got on the radio. "Light brown Buick doing 65."

 

Mama rolls the window down as he walks up to the door. He asked for her ID card and she hands it to him, and he starts writing the ticket. Then he looks at the windshield, then walks up to the front of the car and looks at the bumper, then looks up at the windshield again. Then he comes back to the window and asked Mama where her sticker was.

 

She says, "My husband's retired. We don't have a sticker."

 

As he handed her back her ID card he said, "I sure wish you had told me before I started writing this".

 

Just another example of "we can't do anything to them damn civilians".

 

A few years later they finally got a federal magistrate in out there, and now if the boys in the blue cars write you a ticket, it's gonna cost you.

 

And then somewhere around 78 or 79 they fenced the housing side, and put guards at the gate, and started requiring you to have a sticker.

[Smuteye John SASS#24774]

Benning was an open base until 9/11.

 

I got lost more than once as a teen and new driver while wandering around in South Columbus and ended up on post because the street went into on base housing.  The only differences were the color of the street signs and the front yards were better maintained.

 

I-185 continued onto post unobstructed and changed to a 2 lane just before you went by the jump towers.  The Ft Benning Pistol and Rifle Club used Phillips Range back then.  It was on the left side of the road about a quarter mile after I-185 changed to 2 lane.  That's where I shot my 1st CAS match back in '93.

 

After 9/11, they blocked almost all access points off.  Going east on 280 (Victory Drive  past the interstate) towards Richland, you pass several blocked exits that used to give access to the Post along with a few that they still use- including the Commercial access point.

[Trailrider #896]

19 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

Do they still have stickers for the cars that say “officer”?  We would salute that.

My Dad was an Army Reserve JAG officer who would go on two-weeks active duty at Ft. Sheridan, Illinois. Both his cars had officer stickers on them. This was long before all the security of modern times (1950's). I was still in high school, and had permission to go to the base rifle range to shoot with the reserve outfits. When I drove up to the guard shack, the guard always saluted (the car?). I was in civilian clothes, but when saluted, I always returned it, and was waved on through.  Ironically, when I reported to Malmstrom AFB, 11 Nov 1965, I changed into uniform before driving to the base. My POV was a 1965 Ford Ranch Wagon Special, in dark blue paint, with a roof rack on top. This was a SAC base, and I figured security would be tight. The AP just saluted the "butter bar" and waved me through.  I stopped, and told him I was just reporting in, and needed to get a sticker, and at least a temporary pass until I could get a sticker on the next business day.  He gave me one, saluted me and I returned it.  Turns out the staff station wagons were all blued 1965 Ford wagons, except for the roof rack! Undoubtedly, he thought I was a launch officer driving back from a Launch Control Facility. 

[Sedalia Dave]

On 9/28/2023 at 5:37 PM, Perro Del Diablo said:

Since you didn't see person in car he could have been someone that has earned the salute. Otherwise the hand gesture to pass looks similar to a salute but closer to chest level.

 

Just watched the opening scene and it definitely looked like a salute.