Powder Thrower Are They Worth It?

[Tequila Shooter]

I didn’t want to hijack the other post about powder throwers so started a new one. 

 

I dip then weigh the charge for long range BPCR, for shotgun I dip but don’t weigh, I’ve been using Lee dippers with real BP and was wondering are powder throwers better?  Are they accurate enough that you don’t have to weigh the powder after you get them dialed in?  Are some better than others?

[La Sombra]

Once I get the shop moved and set up the powder throwers, I’ll let you know.

 

 

La Sombra

[Dungannon Gunner]

Most powder throwers are NOT supposed to be used with BP. Most of the big reloading companies make a BP version at 2x the standard model. I use one from  https://www.harrellsprecision.com/collections/powder-measures

 

also consider MVA  https://montanavintagearms.com/product/black-powder-measure/

 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

I never dip precision rifle rounds.  Those are thrown with good measures, as lots of experience shows no real improvement for most long range shooting by weighing instead of throwing.  Plus it's lots faster.   For those, yes, it's worth it.  And, yes, once dialed in I quit weighing each charge, maybe just one every 50.

 

For cowboy shooting, I use good measures (mostly Dillon).  This is for speed and progressive loading.

 

For shotgun loading, I use the measures in progressive presses, also for speed.

 

For BP loads, I use a Lyman 55 BP measure.  Even if I have to adapt it to a progressive press.

 

good luck, GJ

[I. M. Crossdraw, SASS# 8321]

I use a Lyman 55 powder charger when loading real BP and been happy with it.  I do occasionally will weigh my powder and it's been consistent for me.  The dipper is very good but slow since we load BP by volume anyways.

[Jimmy Reb, SASS #54804]

I don't load black powder. however for my pistol loads I use the Lee through the die measure. has not deviated in years. 

I am very happy with them. Use for my cowboy 38s and my 45acp .

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Hey Tequila!!

 

I don't really mean to be snarky (Oh yes I do).  But why are you doing that??  Weighing Black Powder for ANYTHING is a complete waste of time and effort!!  I full grain or two difference in charge weight will be un-measureable on the target.  You're making loading with BP a lot harder than it really is.  It is much more simple than with smokeless.

 

Powder measures are simply the Biz.  Lots of "old wives" tales about them and BP.  Most work just fine with BP.  I personally load a pile of different cartridges on a pair of DILLON 650s and I am loading with 3F APP.  Once I set the correct AMOUNT, I never look back.  No point to weighing it.  With the DILLON powder measures and APP 3f it is necessary to use the LARGE charge bar though.

 

I only dip powder for my shotgun loads and that is because I don't own a shot shell loader for ALL BRASS hulls.  I don't weigh those loads either.  Just scoop and dump.  Simple.  

[Tequila Shooter]

2 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Hey Tequila!!

 

I don't really mean to be snarky (Oh yes I do).  But why are you doing that??  Weighing Black Powder for ANYTHING is a complete waste of time and effort!!  I full grain or two difference in charge weight will be un-measureable on the target.  You're making loading with BP a lot harder than it really is.  It is much more simple than with smokeless.

 

Powder measures are simply the Biz.  Lots of "old wives" tales about them and BP.  Most work just fine with BP.  I personally load a pile of different cartridges on a pair of DILLON 650s and I am loading with 3F APP.  Once I set the correct AMOUNT, I never look back.  No point to weighing it.  With the DILLON powder measures and APP 3f it is necessary to use the LARGE charge bar though.

 

I only dip powder for my shotgun loads and that is because I don't own a shot shell loader for ALL BRASS hulls.  I don't weigh those loads either.  Just scoop and dump.  Simple.  

 

Hey CC,

    I’m loading .45-70 on a single stage press so the Dillon powder measure doesn’t work, but when I’m loading .45C I use the powder measure on the XL650.  I know volume vs. weight, but with precision loads I get the weight to exactly 60gr, use a drop tube, then a compression die with Walter’s Wad.  The only variable between shells is any slight difference between bullets.   Small differences add up to big movement at 300+ yards.  

[Dungannon Gunner]

3 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Hey Tequila!!

 

I don't really mean to be snarky (Oh yes I do).  But why are you doing that??  Weighing Black Powder for ANYTHING is a complete waste of time and effort!!  I full grain or two difference in charge weight will be un-measureable on the target.  You're making loading with BP a lot harder than it really is.  It is much more simple than with smokeless.

 

Powder measures are simply the Biz.  Lots of "old wives" tales about them and BP.  Most work just fine with BP.  I personally load a pile of different cartridges on a pair of DILLON 650s and I am loading with 3F APP.  Once I set the correct AMOUNT, I never look back.  No point to weighing it.  With the DILLON powder measures and APP 3f it is necessary to use the LARGE charge bar though.

 

I only dip powder for my shotgun loads and that is because I don't own a shot shell loader for ALL BRASS hulls.  I don't weigh those loads either.  Just scoop and dump.  Simple.  

Sounds like you may not be familiar with BPCR true long-range shooting with black powder. NONE, as in 0 world competitors shoot black powder without weighing. We even weigh bullets and separate them within.2

[Krazy Kajun]

I use the Lee Perfect powder measure for throwing BP; it is very consistent. You can find it on Lee's website here.  You can buy it online at many places.  You can get it for $24 plus shipping here.  One thing about throwing instead of dipping BP is you have to be sure there are no clumps.  I pour the BP that I am going to use into an old plastic bowl and stir it around some to make sure there are no clumps and break up any that are found.

 

Kajun

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Well darn.  Some several Lustrum ago, I was infected with TinyGroupitis.  Vary serious ailment.  Treated it with an 18 pound Bench Rest Rifle.  Even had a single stage press mounted on the Tail Gate.  Real high precision loading stuff too.  The big powder manufacturers couldn't measure the difference a quarter to half grain +/- .  Then I woke up one day and realized how silly it was.  Never looked back.

 

Now, My enlightened Black Powder self is not foolish enough to get into that long Range BPCR Quigleyesque shoot a bucket at three quarter mile stuff.  However, good powder measures will throw VERY consistent powder charges.  Even if you are using a five foot drop tube.   Thibbit thibbit thibbit   

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

On 6/22/2023 at 10:20 AM, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Hey Tequila!!

 

I don't really mean to be snarky (Oh yes I do).  But why are you doing that??  Weighing Black Powder for ANYTHING is a complete waste of time and effort!!  I full grain or two difference in charge weight will be un-measureable on the target.  You're making loading with BP a lot harder than it really is.  It is much more simple than with smokeless.

 

Powder measures are simply the Biz.  Lots of "old wives" tales about them and BP.  Most work just fine with BP.  I personally load a pile of different cartridges on a pair of DILLON 650s and I am loading with 3F APP.  Once I set the correct AMOUNT, I never look back.  No point to weighing it.  With the DILLON powder measures and APP 3f it is necessary to use the LARGE charge bar though.

 

I only dip powder for my shotgun loads and that is because I don't own a shot shell loader for ALL BRASS hulls.  I don't weigh those loads either.  Just scoop and dump.  Simple.  

You don't shoot long range(800 yds+)BPCR do you..... 

I use the MVA powder measure for match grade BPCR loads.

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

I use Lee Disk Kit on my L-N-L AP for 38sp. For 4/40 and .45 the large Hornady drum on my Hornady L-N-L AP. Good Luck

 

JefroRelax-Enjoy

[Griff]

Pretty much every powder measure on the planet is volumetric in operation.  You may adjust it to throw a specific weight, but unless you then weigh and adjust each individual charge charge to match a weight, you're throwing chages by volume.  Same with bullets, if you're not weighing and sorting by .1 grain, you're wasting whatever other steps you take.  Less so the shorter the range, moreso the longer the shot.  If youir ammo ain't 1 MOA, it don't matter if youn or your rifle ain't!  Now for your regular cowboy ammo, you can relax your standards a squoch or two!

 

Me, I'll continue loading my 45 Colt BP ammo on the Dillon and my 12 ga on the Hornady 336, using their installed powder measures.  If doing so makes you squeamish, don't do it.  

[Tequila Shooter]

7 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

You don't shoot long range(800 yds+)BPCR do you..... 

I use the MVA powder measure for match grade BPCR loads.

 

OLG - I’ve never tried 800 yds with BPCR.  I don’t know (think) my old eyes can see a target that farrrrr, but I’d be willing to try.  The furthest I can practice is 300 yds.

[Orient Express]

For BP I use the Lee dippers after measuring the conversion between CC and grains of my BP. I dip then pour and don't bother with being very accurate. Quite often the BP isn't level with the top of the dipper. For CAS distances any small variation in BP quantity isn't required or noticeable.

Some people "can't see the forest for the trees"

[Nostrum Damus SASS #110702]

As should be clear to anyone reading this thread by now, context matters.  I use a Lee dipper for my Plainsman light BP loads that I'm shooting offhand at targets within 100 yards, with a very nice genuine Model 1884 Trapdoor Springfield (thanks again to Dusty Morningwood for that excellent acquisition).  Precision is not required, just hitting the plate, so small variations in the charge are irrelevant. I use a dipper for loading vials for my Ruger Old Army revolvers, too, because as someone above said, extreme accuracy at CAS pistol distance simply isn't necessary and dip variations are irrelevant.

But I've also recently started shooting long range out to 600+ yards with my Browning 1885 High Wall and everyone on that line weighs both their powder charge and bullets.  At first I weighed my powder charges only (and I did ok) but since learning that fact I'm also weighing the bullets for consistency, as well as trimming all cases to be exactly the same length.  Exceedingly tiny differences in the ammo are greatly exaggerated in ballistic performance at 600 yards.  So now if I miss, it is entirely on me, and not due to variation in the ammo.

(And, yes, I cannot actually see the target at 600 yards, but that is not required to hit it, contrary to popular belief.  As a former member of the USA Shooting Team taught me, I can see the "color change" when the black circle enters the ring of the appropriately small front reticle, so I know when I'm on target.  Using his rifle with his appropriately selected open sights, I've hit the black on a standard 1000 yard target -- something I never dreamed I could do without a riflescope.)

[Dilli GaHoot Galoot]

7 minutes ago, Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 said:

As should be clear to anyone reading this thread by now, context matters.

 

Also should be clear that there isn't only one way to do things, can you imagine if there was?

Only ONE pistol that could shoot a stage clean

Only ONE shotgun that could win any match 

Only ONE holster that would get you to the gold

Only ONE . . . well, you get the point 

 

There are lots of ways to do things, some are faster, others may have a higher degree of safety (as in: no sparking around the BP!) others cheaper, others appeal to one's enjoyment of using technology, or the lack thereof, in their hobby, but in the end you should find a way that balances out the Cost/Functionality/Enjoyment equation and do what's best for you

Unless of course you are one of 'those folk' that like chasing the better way to do things and for you THAT is the enjoyment of what you do

 

 

Please to note:  The "You" in all of that is the collective 'you' and not the singular 'you', my comment wasn't directed at any one pard in particular 

[Tequila Shooter]

39 minutes ago, Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 said:

As should be clear to anyone reading this thread by now, context matters.  I use a Lee dipper for my Plainsman light BP loads that I'm shooting offhand at targets within 100 yards, with a very nice genuine Model 1884 Trapdoor Springfield (thanks again to Dusty Morningwood for that excellent acquisition).  Precision is not required, just hitting the plate, so small variations in the charge are irrelevant. I use a dipper for loading vials for my Ruger Old Army revolvers, too, because as someone above said, extreme accuracy at CAS pistol distance simply isn't necessary and dip variations are irrelevant.

But I've also recently started shooting long range out to 600+ yards with my Browning 1885 High Wall and everyone on that line weighs both their powder charge and bullets.  At first I weighed my powder charges only (and I did ok) but since learning that fact I'm also weighing the bullets for consistency, as well as trimming all cases to be exactly the same length.  Exceedingly tiny differences in the ammo are greatly exaggerated in ballistic performance at 600 yards.  So now if I miss, it is entirely on me, and not due to variation in the ammo.

(And, yes, I cannot actually see the target at 600 yards, but that is not required to hit it, contrary to popular belief.  As a former member of the USA Shooting Team taught me, I can see the "color change" when the black circle enters the ring of the appropriately small front reticle, so I know when I'm on target.  Using his rifle with his appropriately selected open sights, I've hit the black on a standard 1000 yard target -- something I never dreamed I could do without a riflescope.)

 

I think that you and I have the same way of thinking.  I do almost the same for my ROA’s, but I just fill the vials.  This long range shooting is a rabbit hole, and I still need to learn a lot.  A buddy and I are now casting our own bullets, I started using a drop tube for the powder, got a set of MVA sights to replace the factory ones, etc.   A friend of mine, @Sedalia Dave warned me about all this when I first started and has been a great help getting me moving down the right road, but I’m enjoying the experience of shooting long distance without a scope.  Plus you should see all the looks and questions we get when we’re at the range practicing. 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Well golly gosh.  As I may have mentioned earlier, NO I don't shoot BPCR at ranges I can't see the target at.  Biggest and bestsist I can admit to, are CAS side matches and Frontiersman side matches, in which I shoot a Handi Rifle in 38-55.  With 3f APP.  So long as the target goes KLANG I'm gold.  And, I might add, the targets I shoot at ALL go KLANG.  And, I might include, I load my 38-55 on a DILLON 650 with powder measure.  Perfectly acceptable results.  Including the big steel Buff at CAS side matches.  

 

PLUS ONE for Damus.  Context does matter.  Considering what Tequila and other are doing, perhaps the powder measure isn't the answer.  And, I don't practice.  I just show up, load up, and shoot.  Lots and lots of fun and I don't have to go out and "WORK" at it.  Burma Shave

[Nostrum Damus SASS #110702]

Just remember, one pard's "work" is another's play.