Two WW II Samurai Swords

[Buckshot Bear]

My Dad fought in New Guinea in WWII, he was in the  Second Australian Imperial Force (2nd AIF) and volunteered for the Commando's and did his training and obtained his beret. His commando company was in almost constant contact with the enemy. The official war diary history of the 12 commando squadrons raised by the Australian Army during the Second World War makes for incredible reading.

 

He brought back two samurai swords off two dead Japanese officers (plus a lot of photos of Japanese soldiers and their families that I can remember one day he sat in the backyard and burned them) some other bits and pieces and a carved chopstick box that I have that was booby trapped and he stopped a US Lieutenant from touching.

 

The samurai swords used to be kept on top of a wardrobe in my parents room, boys being boys two of my older brothers used to get them down and play with them. They were razor sharp and my Mum was terrified that they would get hurt.

 

Dad eventually donated them to a very large R.S.L Club (Returned Servicemen's Club) these clubs were almost in every neighbourhood and restaurants, poker machines and bars...some were multi story buildings and they were open to the general public. The two samurai swords were in a showcase when one walked into the foyer entrance of this large R.S.L club.

 

With the passing of time and WWI & WWII returned servicemen passing on, many R.S.L clubs closed their doors forever as did this one around a year ago that had the two samurai swords that Dad donated. When I knew that they had closed, I rang the last President and enquired what happened to the swords hoping to hear that they had been donated to the Canberra War Memorial.....instead I heard "I have no idea where they are, but they have disappeared".

 

 

[Subdeacon Joe]

That really sucks.   I hope you can track them down.

[Gracos Kid]

My Dad was also in New Guinea in WW2.  He was the Surgical OR Manager for the 119th Station Army Hospital.  Maybe he could have met your Dad at some point.  I have some interesting photos of the facility and surrounding areas...

[Cypress Sun]

11 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

That really sucks.   I hope you can track them down.

 

Pictures and documentation would help immensely. Unfortunately, the swords were probably stolen and sold as some of these swords are worth substantial money.

[Alpo]

I suppose it's because I'm sort of a cynical sumbitch, but if I was in this circumstance, and asked where the swords that my father had donated to this "now closed" museum were at, and was told I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE THEY ARE, I would suspect they were at his house, on top of his wardrobe.

[Subdeacon Joe]

43 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

Pictures and documentation would help immensely. Unfortunately, the swords were probably stolen and sold as some of these swords are worth substantial money.

 

I'm thinking more likely, "Hey!  Anyone know who gave these to us?"  "Sorry, Bruce, we have no idea.  You want them?"  
With a bit of luck, if they were family heirlooms they were repatriated. 

[Warden Callaway]

Far from being an expert, but I understand there are two types of swords.  One was a general issue, new made.  Others were family heirlooms centuries old carried into battle.   The families in Japan pay high prices to get them back.

[Utah Bob #35998]

1 minute ago, Warden Callaway said:

Far from being an expert, but I understand there are two types of swords.  One was a general issue, new made.  Others were family heirlooms centuries old carried into battle.   The families in Japan pay high prices to get them back.

True. In addition to the very old family swords that were used, there were military issue swords for officers and NCOs. I used to have one that was made in the 1920s. 

[Rip Snorter]

As I understand it there were actually three types.  Machine made, the largest proportion. Modern but hand made with classic methods (Gendai, I have one of those) and the antiques.  One of the most treasured swords is still missing since the war, it is of great value and may well be in a basement or attic somewhere in the U.S,

[Alpo]

Until the burglary I had one. It was signed and dated on the tang. It was made in the 1890s.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

I have a Ginsu.  It will cut through an engine block and still slice tomatoes.

[Rip Snorter]

5 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

I have a Ginsu.  It will cut through an engine block and still slice tomatoes.

Maybe so 

 

[Alpo]

Chopping on the mannequins did not impress me very much.

 

And there ain't no way that I would have done that overhead smash on a basketball.

[Buckshot Bear]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YyBtMxZgQs

[Black Angus McPherson]

9 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

Far from being an expert, but I understand there are two types of swords.  One was a general issue, new made.  Others were family heirlooms centuries old carried into battle.   The families in Japan pay high prices to get them back.

 

My understanding is that the people of Japan are not allowed to own swords.  If they own a sword they have to keep it out of the country and just visit it on occasion.   Kind of like if they want to shoot a gun.  You can't in Japan, but you can if you want to take a trip to a freer country, like the USA.  They should have had a National Sword Association.  

 

I have a Wakasashi (short sword) brought back by the Uncle of a friend of mine.  The blade's age was estimated to be around 200 years old and the tsuba (hand guard) was estimated to be around 400 years old.  It also appears to have been cut down from a full sized katana.  I understand it was not uncommon to repurpose a longer blade that had been broken.  I am not an expert.  These are just a couple things I've picked up here and there.  The tang of the blade appears to be signed and the tsuba also has some writing (Japanese, of course) on it where it is covered by the grip.  Wish I knew more of the history for it.  Meanwhile, it's a cool piece of history and conversation piece.

 

Angus

[Rip Snorter]

There are many, many swords in japan

TOROKUSHO (Registration certificate)

A word on registration. All swords in Japan are required by law to be registered with a local prefectural government. This is the sword’s ‘passport’ so to speak, and it needs to stay with the sword at all times. Often this card is wrapped around the saya (scabbard). On the actual TOROKUSHO, information on the blade’s length, curvature, and number of holes in the tang are documented along with any signature present. Each blade has its own unique number.

[Utah Bob #35998]

It has been estimated that there are more swords in the US than Japan. There are organizations dedicated to repatriating them. I have mixed feelings about that.

[Utah Bob #35998]

44 minutes ago, Black Angus McPherson said:

 

My understanding is that the people of Japan are not allowed to own swords.  If they own a sword they have to keep it out of the country and just visit it on occasion.   Kind of like if they want to shoot a gun.  You can't in Japan, but you can if you want to take a trip to a freer country, like the USA.  They should have had a National Sword Association.  

 

I have a Wakasashi (short sword) brought back by the Uncle of a friend of mine.  The blade's age was estimated to be around 200 years old and the tsuba (hand guard) was estimated to be around 400 years old.  It also appears to have been cut down from a full sized katana.  I understand it was not uncommon to repurpose a longer blade that had been broken.  I am not an expert.  These are just a couple things I've picked up here and there.  The tang of the blade appears to be signed and the tsuba also has some writing (Japanese, of course) on it where it is covered by the grip.  Wish I knew more of the history for it.  Meanwhile, it's a cool piece of history and conversation piece.

 

Angus

There are collectors associations that could help you research it.

[Rip Snorter]

26 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

It has been estimated that there are more swords in the US than Japan. There are organizations dedicated to repatriating them. I have mixed feelings about that.

As do I, but such has been the history of the World.  Time has passed and friend and foe are generally reconciled in this case.

[Badlands Bob #61228]

During the occupation of Japan, the U.S. Army collected all the swords they could find.  It was the disarming of Japan but was also sort of a revenge.  Many swords were taken from museums.  Those that weren't destroyed were sent home with GI's as war trophies.  I saw a documentary on a 14th century Samurai sword that a Sgt. picked up from a Japanese museum.  The sword disappeared and the Sgt. cannot be identified due poor translation of the Sgt.'s name into Japanese.  The sword is estimated to be worth millions and is considered a Japanese national treasure.  They have photographs of the blade markings so they can identify it if it every shows up.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Badlands Bob #61228

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

My son has one that was brought back from the south Pacific by my father-in-law during WWII. I contacted a person who knew a lot about the swords and he told me how to take the handle off and I could see the Japanese letters that were the makers name that was painted on the blade. I took a picture of them and sent them to him, but unfortunately never heard anything back from him. 

 

These blade are works of art for sure.

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

19 hours ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

I have a Ginsu.  It will cut through an engine block and still slice tomatoes.

Yes but if you move up to onions, after slicing do they still make you cry? 

Regards

   

Gateway Kid

[Rip Snorter]

Not a cut and dried issue!

[Subdeacon Joe]

16 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

It has been estimated that there are more swords in the US than Japan. There are organizations dedicated to repatriating them. I have mixed feelings about that.

 

My take on it is that true heirloom swords should be repatriated. 

 

The military mass production swords, even the handmade ones from the 1870s(?) to the 1920s(?), are fair game as trophies.

 

 

 

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

good luck , in finding em 

 

  I had a couple before the arson fire , before I left KS , many years back 

 

  Chickasaw Bill 

[Rip Snorter]

1 hour ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

My take on it is that true heirloom swords should be repatriated. 

 

The military mass production swords, even the handmade ones from the 1870s(?) to the 1920s(?), are fair game as trophies.

 

 

 

It was only a trophy to the soldier who got it and brought it home and his peers.  It is just a sword and an interesting battle implement of another time in a collection of similar items.

[Buckshot Bear]

Below is an Australian Commando about to be beheaded by a Jap.

 

So you know where I reckon they can STUFF their sword repatriation wants.