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Bullet Setback Concerns


Tallboy
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6 minutes ago, Tallboy said:

Awesome, thanks. I called the D-Lead company to find out the exact specifics of how well their stuff works, and its 99.9% if used properly (D-Lead wipes, D-Lead laundry detergent)

 

When I come back from the range I look a bit OCD and weird but thats OK, cause my lead level is 0.0 (below the accuracy threshold, maybe 0.05). I have heard lead above 5 ug/dl can cause deficits in cognition, and considering my career 100% uses my brain for 12+ hours a day I cant have that :lol:

I think I'm above 5 now.

Maybe.

I can't remember.:D

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20 minutes ago, Lawdog Dago Dom said:

Handling fired cases is the biggest cause of lead exposure, second only to the actual firing of the cartridge itself. Priming compounds used to be mercury based, but the switched to lead (lead azide) for "health" reasons. lax

 

Handle fired cases, dry tumbling cases outside, not in the house. Or in a detached garage, tool shed, etc.

 

Wash your hands after handling or use rubber gloves. Also wipe off your face around your nose and mouth.

 

I was a bit lazy doing this and my blood lead levels jumped four points.

Also, add a used dryer sheet cut in four pieces. It will absorb most of the dust. I prewash my brass in a 50/50 mix of Simple Green first, then dry in an old food dehydrator. My lead tests always come back low. I do put on a COVID mask when I dump the tumbler, but find the dust to be almost non- existent. I think the polish in the media helps keep it down as well. I do it in the basement and after years of tumbling haven't noticed any build up of dust in my tumbling area. JMHO.

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53 minutes ago, Tallboy said:

@Cholla They actually have that rock chucker by my house, I never would have expected that as I literally live in the middle of nowhere... perhaps I'll go pick it up today.


Do I need anything else thats not in that kit? Youve already really helped me a lot so I won't keep pestering you with questions, just figure while I'm right here about to buy it if you have any last input that would help.

 

I'm assuming if I get a 550 I can re-use some of this stuff?

You will absolutely need stuff from the RCBS kit to use the 550. You need the scale to aid in adjusting and verifying the powder dispenser. When using any sizing die that isn't carbide such as the 45-70 or 30-30, you will need to lube pad and lube. Just don't use too much or the brass will dimple. I consider the Speer reloading manual a must. I have three editions. As far as the 550, yes, unless you find a used version, the C version is the latest and have nice features that help maintain it easier vs a B version like I have. If you find a B version at a good value, get it was well. Just keep in mind that the 550 will most likely only come with one of everything and you will want to set each caliber up with its own tool head so you will need a powder dispenser for each tool head as well as dies, a conversion kit, and a tool head stand. It gets expensive quick. A SS press is slower but MUCH cheaper.

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As a 550 owner too, you can use the Lee powder dispenser on a 550 for much less cost and have them permanently stay on the sized tool head. Now, they do not hold as much powder as the Dillon and are not dial adjustable, you have to change the discs, but they work very well. Also, order extra primer tubes, believe me, it is a very nice thing to have them already loaded up and not have to stop every couple hundred rounds to refill tubes. Just refill em while watching Gunsmoke or Maverick.

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@Cholla I would say you and I agree on almost all the current manuals that are currently printed.

The Modern Reloading by Lee

Lyman's Cast Bullet Manual

and Speer's Manual.

Do you think that there are any others a new loader should look for without getting completely overwhelmed?

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9 minutes ago, Ranger Dan said:

Hodgdon reloading data center website is a great source for load data. I always check it when researching a new load.

Hodgdon Landing | Hodgdon (hodgdonreloading.com)

And way less expensive than the books!

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When I bought my 1st 550, I had a RCBS Jr. (single stage), I'd loaded on for about 15 years.  I loaded for 38/.357M, 45 Colt, 45ACP, 45-70, 30-30, 30-06, 7mmRemMag before I got the 550, so I only got one set of dies for one cartridge with the 550 and just use my RCBS dies for all the others on the Dillon when I load on it.  Just had to replace the standard steel dies with carbide ones for those that can use carbide dies.  I ended up replacing my RCBS Jr. with a Rock Chucker as I needed the extra height to load the .40-90Sharps BN.  Ended up giving the Jr. to my BIL since he only loads a couple 100 9mms for his EDC.

 

While I still have a couple of lube pads, I've pretty much gone over to using a spray lube for those cases that need lubing.  Quicker, and seems as though I don't over-lube at all.  

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Oh, as for reloading manuals, I have several Lymans, both their cast booklet and regular manuals.  I also like Sierra's reloading manual, but that may be because they were a local SoCal company when I started reloading and bought many of my bullets directly from them.  Still do, even tho I now have to mail order them from MO.  Although in the course of my travels I've stopped in at their place & Starlines to purchase direct on a couple of occasions!  

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1 hour ago, DeaconKC said:

@Cholla I would say you and I agree on almost all the current manuals that are currently printed.

The Modern Reloading by Lee

Lyman's Cast Bullet Manual

and Speer's Manual.

Do you think that there are any others a new loader should look for without getting completely overwhelmed?

I think for CAS, you covered it. I would add, buy older manuals as they are found. The new ones often don't cover older obsolete calibers or list older powders.

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So I'm still thinking about this, im 90% close to driving to get the rock chucker... I know the goal with a single stage press is not speed, but how many rounds per hour could I reasonably expect to produce while learning, before upgrading to a 550?

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So I am going to throw in my 2 cents on this subject.  I have been shooting CAS for two years.  I have been reloading for over 40.  Before CAS I had never shot any kind of timed event or shooting sport so a single stage loader did everything I needed.  I loaded up the ammo for my first match.  I loaded 150 rounds on a rock chucker.  It took me a couple of hours for the whole process.  Then I shot almost all of them my first match.  I was hooked and wanted to shoot more matches.  That meant loading more ammo.  I realized it was going to take a lot of time to load as much ammo as I wanted to shoot on a single stage.  So I bought a used Dillon 650.  You say you work as an engineer so it should not be hard for you to quickly understand the processes, how the machine works, and what your finished product should do.  Do not be intimidated by an automatic indexing machine.  Just like the manual index machines if you mess up something on one stage you can remove the cartridge.  On my 650 I run a powder check die that keeps me from loading a round with no powder or double charging a case.   I use a prima fill primer tube filler and fill ten tubes at a time.  I can run those through the machine at a leisurely pace in just over an hour, that's 1000 rounds.  I shoot up to 5 matches a month and load for two buddies who shoot almost the same.  No way we could keep up with this much shooting with a single stage loader and it would be a lot of work with a manual index loader.   With your brain power it should be no problem for you to grasp the operation of an auto indexing machine.  I do not agree with the faster you load the faster you make mistakes.  Biggest mistake you can make is either over or under charging the powder and the powder checker solves that problem. 

As for case cleaning we split up the depriming duties between the three of us who shoot as that probably takes the most time but I absolutely do it before wet tumbling.  I then wet tumble the brass in a Frankfort Arsenal tumbler with Armorall car wash and wax and a dab of lemi shine.  I spin the water and pins out with a rotary media separator then the cases go into a food dehydrator for a couple of hours until dry. 

After loading I hand gauge every round through a case gauge and check for high primers before they go into ammo boxes for storage until ready for a match.  I check the rounds while I watch TV.  

There are lots of good videos on youtube showing loading on a dillon 650 or 750.  The dies, tool heads and conversion kits cost almost the same as for a 550 so why go with the slower press. 

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11 minutes ago, Tallboy said:

So I'm still thinking about this, im 90% close to driving to get the rock chucker... I know the goal with a single stage press is not speed, but how many rounds per hour could I reasonably expect to produce while learning, before upgrading to a 550?

By all means go buy the rock chucker to get started and figure out the processes, then move up to whatever you are comfortable with, for me it was the 650.  I now use my rock chucker with a lee universal depriming die and a 3d printed case pusher to quickly deprime my empty cases.  I also still use my rock chucker for my hunting rifle rounds.    Everything else is done on a progressive.  Once you get that figured out you can then get into loading shotgun shells!

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10 minutes ago, Tallboy said:

So I'm still thinking about this, im 90% close to driving to get the rock chucker... I know the goal with a single stage press is not speed, but how many rounds per hour could I reasonably expect to produce while learning, before upgrading to a 550?

It depends on your rhythm and how many loading blocks you have. Setting up the powder measure, setting the case expansion die, and setting the crimping dies are going to take the largest amount of time. Once those are set and locking rings locked in place, I think I can do 100 rounds of straight-wall cartridges per hour, provided I have four 50-round reloading blocks lines up. maybe more. Maybe 200 on a good run. The kit shown in the link provided has the hand primer which is faster than using the press. It all depends on you after that. Resize/deprime first. Prime. Bell the case mouth. Drop powder. seat and crimp the bullet. Do each step for a 100-200 at a time and it can go fast. One hands working the press, one hand is manipulating the cartridges. My powder dispenser has enough reach to fill all of the cases in the loading block and long as I rotate the loading block half-way through.

I recommend you start with one straight-wall case size and learn the ropes. Ideas you have now on how things are going to work may not be accurate once you're doing it.

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Ok I think I'm going to go with the 550. 2 things leaned me in that direction 1) they were out of stock when I went to Sportsmans 2) more importantly, the guy who is helping me also has a 550 so I shouldn't have any problems there. Currently he's renovating though so he won't be able to help me for a bit, in the meantime I can just read the manual myself and make progress (pun intended LMAO)

 

I have a few more straggling questions. I know these are answered in the Lyman manual I'm sure, but right now I'm just focusing on what to buy.

 

I think I'm going to start with either 45-70 or 357... I'm leaning toward 45-70

 

1. Do I need both a go & no-go gauge? Or.. do I buy this in 45-70? https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012784517

 

2. Does anyone have suggestions for an LED light that I can check the powder level with? It seems that's the general strategy, and I'd rather buy one specifically designed for that purpose rather than random LED lights on amazon.

 

3A. Is this the die I want for 45-70? https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1011629373?pid=178912 This is partly where I'm not sure as that clearly says it's for cast bullets only. I'm pretty sure that's what I want to shoot. correct me if I'm wrong but they're cheaper, don't wear the barrel out as much. I wont be casting them myself. I have a follow up question to this:

 

3B. Is there a good comfort load 45-70 data set I can follow for my first go round? According to Lyman book (again, I haven't read it YET), does this mean I will be following "1873 springfield" section and any of the boxes under "cast bullets" (for example #457193, 405gr). 

 

4. I know this is answered in the manual, but this is just me thinking about buying things. I'm assuming I use the manual powder balance to check and adjust the auto dispensing powder scale, correct?

 

5. The 550 says "Small bar throws from 2.1 - 17 grains of powder large bar throws up to  50 - 55 grains of powder." I'm assuming the large bar can do less than 50, and that's just the limit correct (moreso how it's written is confusing), as the small one is written as a range and the large seems to be written as a max

 

6. If I want to do cowboy 357 loads as my 2nd caliber, which section would I follow in Lyman? It seems unlike 45-70 which has 3 "levels," for 357 there is only a single level. Is this where the cast bullet book comes in or something?

 

I will post my list soon to make sure I didn't forget anything.

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1 minute ago, Tallboy said:

Ok I think I'm going to go with the 550. 2 things leaned me in that direction 1) they were out of stock when I went to Sportsmans 2) more importantly, the guy who is helping me also has a 550 so I shouldn't have any problems there. Currently he's renovating though so he won't be able to help me for a bit, in the meantime I can just read the manual myself and make progress (pun intended LMAO)

 

I have a few more straggling questions. I know these are answered in the Lyman manual I'm sure, but right now I'm just focusing on what to buy.

 

I think I'm going to start with either 45-70 or 357... I'm leaning toward 45-70. I would start with 357. If you have carbide dies (recommended) much easier as a starting point. (not that the 45-70 is hard)

 

1. Do I need both a go & no-go gauge? Or.. do I buy this in 45-70? https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012784517 If you feel more comfortable, by all means get a gauge. For rifle rounds I just drop them in the chamber of the gun that will be shooting them.

 

2. Does anyone have suggestions for an LED light that I can check the powder level with? It seems that's the general strategy, and I'd rather buy one specifically designed for that purpose rather:FlagAm: than random LED lights on amazon. I really like the KMS squared lights. Get the complete kit for the 550. Don't know why I waited so long to get them. HTTPS://KMSSQUARED.COM

 

 

3A. Is this the die I want for 45-70? https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1011629373?pid=178912 This is partly where I'm not sure as that clearly says it's for cast bullets only. I'm pretty sure that's what I want to shoot. correct me if I'm wrong but they're cheaper, don't wear the barrel out as much. I wont be casting them myself. I have a follow up question to this: The dies for cast bullets are good. I use the RCBS "cowboy" version because that is what was available at the time

 

3B. Is there a good comfort load 45-70 data set I can follow for my first go round? According to Lyman book (again, I haven't read it YET), does this mean I will be following "1873 springfield" section and any of the boxes under "cast bullets" (for example #457193, 405gr). I shoot a 535 gr. Postell so nothing here. Our local range has up to 350 yards but our state range has targets out to 2,000 yards. (still working on the 1,000 yard consistency! :P)

 

4. This will be a very dumb question certainly answered in the manual, but this is just for buying decisions right now, not on the actual process... why do I need a powder scale if I have a powder measure on the 550.

The powder measure loads by volume. You will need a scale to verify weight per your manual.

 

5. The 550 says "Small bar throws from 2.1 - 17 grains of powder large bar throws up to  50 - 55 grains of powder." What if the cartridge needs 33 grains? (I know this is also answered in manual, really this is more curiosity before I read than anything). I use the small bar for pretty much all pistols (CAS). large bar for rifles

 

6. If I want to do cowboy 357 loads as my 2nd caliber, which section would I follow in Lyman? It seems unlike 45-70 which has 3 "levels" for 357 there is only a single level. Is this where the cast bullet book comes in or something? The cast bullet book by lyman is excellent. Used to find cowboy loads as a special supplement online and in your local gun store but not sure anymore.

 

I will post my list soon to make sure I didn't forget anything.

Regards

:FlagAm:  :FlagAm:  :FlagAm:

Gateway Kid

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Gateway Kid is spot on. Would like to add before you drop the big bucks on the 550, check out the advantages the 650\750 has. It's not just the auto indexing, there is also 5 die stations as opposed to 4 on the 550. This provides space for a powder check die. Basic process goes like this: station 1 deprime and resizing, station 2 primer and powder case belling, station 3 powder check (beeps if not within limits) station 4 bullet seating, station 5 crimp. The 750 has an upgraded primer feeding system. As others have pointed out, at any station you can remove a case and continue the loading process, powder will not drop if there is no case under it, and with the 750 no primer will feed if the one before it is not used. I did a lot of research before spending $$$ on a progressive and concluded the Dillon 650 with case feeder is the best progressive press available, this was before the 750 was introduced. Not saying the 550 is not a good press, anything from Dillon is top notch. Disclamer: I don't work for Dillon, just love their stuff.

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24 minutes ago, Ranger Dan said:

Gateway Kid is spot on. Would like to add before you drop the big bucks on the 550, check out the advantages the 650\750 has. It's not just the auto indexing, there is also 5 die stations as opposed to 4 on the 550. This provides space for a powder check die. Basic process goes like this: station 1 deprime and resizing, station 2 primer and powder case belling, station 3 powder check (beeps if not within limits) station 4 bullet seating, station 5 crimp. The 750 has an upgraded primer feeding system. As others have pointed out, at any station you can remove a case and continue the loading process, powder will not drop if there is no case under it, and with the 750 no primer will feed if the one before it is not used. I did a lot of research before spending $$$ on a progressive and concluded the Dillon 650 with case feeder is the best progressive press available, this was before the 750 was introduced. Not saying the 550 is not a good press, anything from Dillon is top notch. Disclamer: I don't work for Dillon, just love their stuff.

Yeah I've seriously contemplated that.... it's really hard to decide. I suppose my thought was I know a lot of people in this thread love 550, and I have talked to some very good shooters who have (literally) 4 or 5 different 550 that are going non-stop, so I figured it would be good enough and simpler.


I do love the idea of automating everything though (bullets, cases, etc), but to start I wanted to get a handle on it, and considering I wont be using a single stage press I thought to make it slightly easier.


Perhaps I could sell it and get a 750 once I learn everything. But yes, I most certainly have contemplated it.

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4 hours ago, Tallboy said:

Ok I think I'm going to go with the 550. 2 things leaned me in that direction 1) they were out of stock when I went to Sportsmans 2) more importantly, the guy who is helping me also has a 550 so I shouldn't have any problems there. Currently he's renovating though so he won't be able to help me for a bit, in the meantime I can just read the manual myself and make progress (pun intended LMAO)

 

I have a few more straggling questions. I know these are answered in the Lyman manual I'm sure, but right now I'm just focusing on what to buy.

 

I think I'm going to start with either 45-70 or 357... I'm leaning toward 45-70

 

1. Do I need both a go & no-go gauge? Or.. do I buy this in 45-70? https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012784517

 

2. Does anyone have suggestions for an LED light that I can check the powder level with? It seems that's the general strategy, and I'd rather buy one specifically designed for that purpose rather than random LED lights on amazon.

 

3A. Is this the die I want for 45-70? https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1011629373?pid=178912 This is partly where I'm not sure as that clearly says it's for cast bullets only. I'm pretty sure that's what I want to shoot. correct me if I'm wrong but they're cheaper, don't wear the barrel out as much. I wont be casting them myself. I have a follow up question to this:

 

3B. Is there a good comfort load 45-70 data set I can follow for my first go round? According to Lyman book (again, I haven't read it YET), does this mean I will be following "1873 springfield" section and any of the boxes under "cast bullets" (for example #457193, 405gr). 

 

4. I know this is answered in the manual, but this is just me thinking about buying things. I'm assuming I use the manual powder balance to check and adjust the auto dispensing powder scale, correct?

 

5. The 550 says "Small bar throws from 2.1 - 17 grains of powder large bar throws up to  50 - 55 grains of powder." I'm assuming the large bar can do less than 50, and that's just the limit correct (moreso how it's written is confusing), as the small one is written as a range and the large seems to be written as a max

 

6. If I want to do cowboy 357 loads as my 2nd caliber, which section would I follow in Lyman? It seems unlike 45-70 which has 3 "levels," for 357 there is only a single level. Is this where the cast bullet book comes in or something?

 

I will post my list soon to make sure I didn't forget anything.

For question 2, go to a music store and buy a orchestra light.

Mine has 2 gooseneck heads, each with 2 brightness levels, and runs on AA batteries.

You should be able to get one for under $20. I like mine better than the 

4. Yes

5. The larger can do less than 50.

 

About books...Go to a gun show and look for older books there. sometimes they have them for less money. 

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On 10/15/2022 at 8:09 PM, Tallboy said:

I bought a Lyman edition a few days ago after I read this thread.


I suppose question number 1 is it seems this book is almost like a recipe book specific to Lyman, is that correct? For some reason I thought all reloading formulas were 'shared' but this book makes it seem like this company specifically came up with these loads, and each manual/book maintainer comes up with their own formulas/combinations. Is that correct?


Is there a book I should have that is better than this one? I will be loading 100% for lever gun cartridges mentioned.

I like this one from hodgdon for cowboy loads… 

hodgdon_2002_blackpowder_reloaders_manual.pdf

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Here's my list, I'd love anyones feedback of what I'm missing, or what could be improved. 

 

Normally I spend asinine amounts of research on every single thing before buying, but in this case I just want to get started, so I only did a cursory look over each item. I'm 1000% open to improvements or things I've overlooked (of which Im sure there are)

 

 

I really wanted some of these enhancements too but I have NO idea which ones to start with. I see them literally mentioned EVERYWHERE though. I remember someone in this thread mentioned the Shell plate bearing kit, but there are definitely a lot of options:

 

https://uniquetek.com/dillon-enhancements-by-press/rl550

 

I'm not trying to overcomplicate things while learning but it seems based on reading there are maybe 3 or 4 of these that are must haves. I'd be open to hearing them

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57 minutes ago, Tallboy said:

If I wet tumble, how do I remove the primers. I wouldnt want to run dirty brass through my press I would think? What would be the better way to do it

 

 

 Buy reloading books watch videos on you tube  You are complicating this.

 

Best Wishes

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12 minutes ago, Texas Jack Black said:

 Buy reloading books watch videos on you tube  You are complicating this.

 

Best Wishes

I know it's all in books, I mentioned before right now I'm just focusing on what to buy. ie if there is some hand tool or something that just does this well

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1 minute ago, Tallboy said:

I know it's all in books, I mentioned before right now I'm just focusing on what to buy. ie if there is some hand tool or something that just does this well

 Single stage press  you can buy a Lee or others .Go online and search ,Read your books and do a bit of reloading. You can move up to better equipment if you so decide after learning on the single stage.

This is very easy to learn

 

I wish you well

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Tallboy...You probably have a lot of reasons why you do not want to reload yourself...if you can, give it a rethink, as nothing better than shooting your own bullets whether at the range or hunting..just my 2c

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2 hours ago, Tallboy said:

If I wet tumble, how do I remove the primers. I wouldnt want to run dirty brass through my press I would think? What would be the better way to do it

 

 

Wet tumble then allow them to dry. Then run them through the press. If you want the primer pockets clean, pop the primers out before cleaning.

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I clean my brass using a vibratory cleaner & dry media.  The anvil portion of the primer is a ferrous metal, and will rust if wet and exposed to air.  I do wash my black powder rounds in liquid, either just a soapy mix or sometimes if badly stained in a sonic cleaner.  However, I decap those shells 1st.  I use a Lee Hand Tool an appropriate shell holder and a universal decapping tool.  I drilled a ¼" hole into the side of the Lee Hand Tool so the spent primers could fall out easier and not be trapped in the relatively confined space in the tool.  It slows the reloading process down, but, I feel better not leaving that spent cap in the shell while immersed in my solution.  

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14 hours ago, Tallboy said:

If I wet tumble, how do I remove the primers. I wouldnt want to run dirty brass through my press I would think? What would be the better way to do it

 

 

Just wet tumble, dry, then run them through the press.

 

I highly recommend wet tumbling. My lead levels got pretty high a few years back, in the thirties. I switched to wet tumbling and made a point of washing my hands more often and they plummeted. Just my opinion, but it takes a lot more work to keep the lead out when you’re dry tumbling.

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21 hours ago, Ranger Dan said:

check out the advantages the 650\750 has. It's not just the auto indexing, there is also 5 die stations as opposed to 4 on the 550. This provides space for a powder check die.

+1

I bought a used 550, real bargain. Yes, you can watch every powder drop by eye (and it's easier the bulkier the powder is). I liked that I still could use separate dies for seating and crimping that way. But at some time I got tired of watching every case and wasn't sure I'd really catch a low powder load. So, I installed a RCBS lockout die (you'd need to modify a 550 to use a Dillon powder check) on station 3 and switched to combined seating and crimping on 4. The cartridge OAL wasn't as consistent as before and the crimps a bit less perfect, but still everything more than satisfactory for cowboy ammo. Then I encountered a bullet that I found to be very difficult to seat and crimp in one station, resulting in my current flow by running every cartridge additionally through a single stage press for crimping :rolleyes:

Bottom line: It would be so nice to have 5 stations! (If someone wants to have a powder check)

Edited by Equanimous Phil
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