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Alpo
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When you light a candle, to say a prayer, is there like a donation box there on the rack of all the candles? So once you've lit your candle you can make a donation to the church?

 

Seems like I heard, many many years back, that was the way it worked. They just lit a candle on a TV show, and not only did he not leave any money, but there did not appear to be any place for you to leave money.

 

Having been raised Methodist, the things I do not know about Catholicism would probably fill several books.

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Posted (edited)

And I know less but I did make a habit of marrying Catholics. To my experience one lights a candle and leaves it burning and looks around bashfully for a place to deposit coin.

 

from what I have seen in the Eastern world (Orthodox), one bought a candle and did something with it. E.g., lit the way through the caves and left it lighting the way for others, it just left it lit. 
 

there is a small chapel open in the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone, I recall lighting a candle and having a few thoughts there. I am sure there were other churches and chapels in the Zone. This one was open.

Edited by Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984
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The candles are there. The church buys them. So, unless you bring your own candle, you drop your pence into the box for the candle. Nobody checks and nobody cares. I'm not Catholic, but I've been to a lot of Catholic churches.

 

In the Orthodox churches, there are usually boxes of candles in the narthex. Thin long ones, short ones. There's a lot of candle lighting in the Orthodox church. There's a suggested donation box there for the candles, inasmuch as the Church has purchased them. Again, nobody checks and nobody cares. I usually will take one and then, every few times, drop in 5 bucks to cover my 'account'.

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I was raised Catholic and in my piano tuning business I go to quite a few churches of all denominations . All the Catholic Churches I’ve been to have a collection box below the candles.

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There is usually a small box that is integral to the stand for the votive lights.  Usually.  Sometimes there isn't and you leave the coins on the tray with the matches.

Orthodox is as Red mentioned.  Except on Sundays when a baba or yia-yia will whack you in the shin with her cane if she sees you take a candle without making the suggested donation. :D

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Methodist, Episcopal and Roman Catholic churches have lots of things in common. Movies and television only have so much time for their show and to get in commercials so they cut out lots of stuff to keep the plot moving. some churches have had addicts steal the boxes out of the church.

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The caves at the monastery at Lavra in Kyiv are a holy place. To visit women must wear a head covering (kerchief or scarf) and a skirt. The is a woman at the entrance to the upper cave who will rent the necessaries as well as collect cash for the candles. Many people buy more than one candle because there are alcoves along the way where various Venerables are entombed and some people often stop, say a prayer and light a candle.  There might even have been a candle left for a hermit or two. Hermits have entombed themselves in the walls so their bodies are not on display but there has been a notice of their passing.

 

at the end of the caves , women can leave the wraparound skirt and kerchief. Most bought a kerchief but many leave it behind,

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1 minute ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

OK I have little knowledge of religion and the "rules". But why does a woman have to wear a scarf and skirt to be seen in the eyes of a god?

 

 

It's a matter of respect.  You are entering the house of The King of All.  Men are expected to have long sleeves and long pants.  Or a cassock.

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Posted (edited)

1st Century adaptations.  As an Architect I did a historical restoration and seismic upgrade to the Catholic Cathedral here in Reno. It was built in 1909 and burned down in 1914. So when we relocated the candles it was decided, by the church, that the fire risk in an un-sprinklered building was a thing. Think Notre Dame.

So they make an arrangement that looks like rows of candles. And the individual candles/lights light up when touched. Donation box was located below.

 

jerry work00027.tif

Candle/lights are to the left.

Edited by irish ike, SASS #43615
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1 hour ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

OK I have little knowledge of religion and the "rules". But why does a woman have to wear a scarf and skirt to be seen in the eyes of a god?

 

Good luck with this explanation!:P

https://catholicexchange.com/are-women-obliged-to-cover-their-heads-in-church/

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I was raised Southern Baptist.   We pass the offering plate.

 

If there isn't an offering plate, DON'T pass your hat..... you may never get it back.

:lol:

 

..........Widder

 

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27 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

 

That's Roman.  Orthodox is a whole different critter.  Especially Old World. 

 

Here in the US in most Orthodox parishes head coverings are optional, but highly recommended.  Many women do still cover their heads.  And every Orthodox church I have been in has "loaners" in a basket or on a rack in the narthex,  Amazing how many young converts to Orthodoxy adopt the headscarf.  

 

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3 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

OK I have little knowledge of religion and the "rules". But why does a woman have to wear a scarf and skirt to be seen in the eyes of a god?

 

 

Well, I would say that God will 'see' you, even if you go to church in cargo shorts, polo shirt, sandals, and with a cuppa coffee in your hand.

 

It has to do with customs and practices developed surrounding the seriousness and solemnity of worship. It's not a 'rule' as such; any more than fasting customs are rules. But they are longstanding customs and practices. I don't know of any church that conducts services without any sort of pattern or structure or expectations of the congregation.

 

As for Catholicism, I (a Presbyterian lad), first went to a Mass at age 16 with my then girlfriend (now my wife of near 55 years). That was 1964; Vatican II had taken place, but the liturgy and practices had not yet changed. The church was always full. All the women wore head coverings, from scarves to little 'doily' caps. The effect was one of great dignity I thought. Alas, along with much more gone with the wind.....

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5 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

OK I have little knowledge of religion and the "rules". But why does a woman have to wear a scarf and skirt to be seen in the eyes of a god?

 

Why Do Catholics Wear Chapel Veils?

A Catholic woman wearing a chapel veil while praying at church.

Published April 28th, 2021

Wearing of “mantilla” or chapel veils was a commonplace tradition for the first 2000 years of the Church. But for many decades, this beautiful tradition has seen a slow decline. Lately though, many millennial Catholics are readopting the practice.

So why do Catholics wear chapel veils?

Chapel veils had been a part of the Catholic identity. Catholic brides usually traditionally wear a veil while marching down the aisle. While traditional church attire often include a lace mantilla. But aside from keeping with tradition, there are many reasons why many Catholics choose to wear mantilla veils when in church. In this post, we’ll discuss what these veils really mean for Catholics.

What is the Purpose of Veiling?

In the early Catholic tradition, veiling is a reminder of the spousal relationship between Christ and the Church. The Catholic veil is also a reminder of the sanctity and dignity of women. And wearing a chapel veil is a visualization of a woman’s submission to a man within their marriage.

But as the years go by, chapel veils slowly stopped becoming a symbol of women’s subservience to men. Instead, the Catholic chapel veil is now used to cover something that we consider sacred. Meaning, the veil’s purpose has now shifted from being a symbol of servility to protecting something that is cherished, respected, and adored.

If you notice, it’s not only the women being veiled. We Catholics also veil the altar and tabernacle that houses our Lord. The chalice, which contains our Lord’s blood, is also veiled. We put veils on things that we recognize as worth protecting because it is holy and life flows from it.

Today, we consider the use of the veil not only a visible act of modesty and humility. But also as a sign of reverence and surrender to God’s will. Donning on chapel veils is a visual statement and a public proclamation before the Lord that He is the Lord and that we love Him and that we are ready to obey him.

Why Do Catholic Women Wear Veils to Church?

In his first letter to the Corinthians, St. Paul tells women the importance of wearing a head covering. He says,

And whereas any man who keeps his head covered when he prays or utters prophecy brings shame upon his head, a woman brings shame upon her head if she uncovers it to pray or prophesy; She is no better than the woman who has her head shaved. If a woman would go without a veil, why does she not cut her hair short too if she admits that a woman is disgraced when her hair is cut short or shaved, then let her go veiled…

… Judge for yourselves; Is it fitting that a woman should offer prayer to God unveiled? Does not nature itself teach you that, whereas it is a disgrace to a man to wear his hair long when a woman grows her hair long, it is an added grace to her? That is because her hair has been given her to take the place of a veil. (1 Corinthians 11:4-16)

This epistle inspired the practice of veiling for women in all of Christendom. Since then it has become a tradition for women to wear some sort of head covering when going to church. In some Christian traditions, women even wear a traditional chapel veil even when not in church. This tradition also inspired medieval women’s attire as well as traditional costumes for women in predominantly Catholic countries.

Early Catholic women wear chapel veils primarily as a symbol of modesty. In those days, it’s believed that keeping the head covered helps maintain a woman’s dignity.

A woman wearing a white church veil.

Today, society’s standards for modesty have come a long way. A woman can still be considered respectable even if she doesn’t wear a veil or any head covering. But we can still see Catholic women willingly put on the veil for a variety of reasons.

Some women say that with a veil on, they feel more humbled and reverent. It’s just like when you’re removing a hat during a national anthem. While others share that it enables them to experience “authentic femininity” as shown by the Blessed Virgin.

Why Millennial Catholics Choose to Wear Chapel Veils

One of the casualties of the ongoing cultural revolution among women is chapel veils. While the1917 Code of Canon Law prescribes it, it wasn’t necessarily encouraged among the faithful. Thus, for the past few decades, veil mantillas were worn mostly by older Catholic women. But now, many millennials are readopting the traditional chapel veils.

If you’ll search the internet about chapel veils, you’ll notice that there’s an emergence of online stores selling them. There are also internet forums dedicated specially for those interested in the practice.One woman even commented that she feels more comfortable wearing a chapel veil mantilla because others are wearing it too. OneInstagram influencer even regularly shares photos of herself in flawless makeup and wearing a lace mantilla.

As with most of the things they do, millennials wear veil mantillas mostly for personal reasons. Former America’s Next Top Model candidateLeah Darrow said that wearing a pretty veil fits her “girly-girl” persona. While a 24-year old woman from Ohio said that wearing a mantilla is her way of emulating the Virgin Mary. While some girls say that it coincides with their desire to wear a physical “habit” to show their Catholic identity.

Types of Veils Catholic Women Wear

Chapel veils come in all forms, sizes, and colors. But most of the time, they are made out of lace. The most common ones are:

  1. Circular Head Veil

As the name suggests, this chapel veil design is round and barely covers the head.

  1. Semi-circular Veil

This design is named such because it’s shaped like a circle that’s cut in half. It’s designed to be draped over the head but barely reaching the shoulder.

  1. Triangular Veil

Again, this type of veil got its name from its shape. It looks strikingly similar to a pañuelo – a type of Spanish neck scarf used during the 18th to 19th centuries. Because of its shape, it forms a more elegant drape over the shoulders and a slightly pointy end at the back.

  1. Infinity Veil

Unlike other types of veils, an infinity veil is connected on both ends forming a sort of infinite scarf. They are designed to be draped over the head with the hems gathering artfully at the chest area.

  1. Wrap-around Veil

Wrap-around veils are typically much wider and longer than most types of veils since they are designed to be wrapped around the head and the shoulders.

There really is no standard when it comes to what type of veil you should wear. But certain colors are reserved for certain occasions. For example, a black veil is typically worn during funerals. So if you go to church wearing a black veil, it could look like you’re mourning. There are also online shops that let you customize mantilla veils. You can choose the lace, the color, as well as the hems depending on your personal preference.

Are You Interested in Seeking a Deeper Connection with God?

We, the Lay Cistercians of South Florida, are a community of lay people who seeks to have a deeper connection with God by living a life inspired by the monks and nuns through Lay Monasticism. Click here to learn more about what is a Lay Cistercian. Anyone who aspires to do the same as us, and is a confirmed Catholic is welcome to join us! We meet every second Saturday of the month at Emmanuel Catholic Church in Delray Beach, Florida, you can join us on Zoom if you live far away.

 
 

About The Author

Judy Ponio is a professional writer and SEO specialist. She works hard to ensure her work uses accurate facts by cross checking reputable sources. She is the lead author for several prominent websites covering a variety of topics including law, health, nutrition, and more.

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15 hours ago, Alpo said:

When you light a candle, to say a prayer, is there like a donation box there on the rack of all the candles? So once you've lit your candle you can make a donation to the church?

 

Seems like I heard, many many years back, that was the way it worked. They just lit a candle on a TV show, and not only did he not leave any money, but there did not appear to be any place for you to leave money.

 

Having been raised Methodist, the things I do not know about Catholicism would probably fill several books.

 

There should be a small box below the candles for the donation.

I have been a couple of Catholic Churches with no donation box though.

 

TV and movies, and some books, totally get things wrong a lot of times. In Bram Stoker's Dracula, for example, Van Helsing carries a consecrated Host with him. This would NEVER be allowed. He later grinds it up to use as a repellent. This would be a very serious sin.

 

Sadly, since Vatican 2, it has been a perpetual path of confusion and chaos in an attempt to destroy the Church. through infiltration (great book by that name by Dr. Taylor Marshal).

Anyway...

As a Roman Catholic (Traditional), I'll be glad to answer questions as best I can. Feel free to ask me here or in a PM if you like.

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Have Catholic women gone back to covering their hair in church?  During the 13 years BabyGirl was in school none of us ever did.

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Posted (edited)

So would Jesus deny sharing his word with someone who was dressed inappropriately?

Reading the reason why's it's clear they were written to make women subservient to men. If men wear a head covering they are violating a rule!

Edited by irish ike, SASS #43615
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I won’t mention the denomination. At the age of seventeen, as I left the auditorium of the church I had attended for most of my life, I was cornered by one of the elders of the church. 
 

My hair had grown to shoulder length. He pulled me aside and said something to the effect that if I continued to wear my hair long, I would wind up in hell.

 

I replied that if I got there before he did, I’d have a beer and wait on him. I asked what had come of “Judge not” and where did he get off!!

 

 I joined another church a couple of years later, but when I came to services some time later wearing clean bib overalls and a two pocket long sleeved shirt, I was scolded by some of the sanctimonious members there for not “dressing right”.

 

After that, I decided that worship didn’t require a building or a bunch of other people, or for that matter, any kind of organized religion.

 

 I haven’t and probably never again will attend an organized worship service!!

 

 I seriously doubt that my choice will have much to do with where my soul ends up!!

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Actually, to me, that kind of read like the original Church decided that men should not cover their head to show that they were not Jews, because Jewish men do cover their head when they worship.

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If I come to a CAS match in blue blazer, tie, and wingtip shoes, with my double-action Smith model 10, they ain't going to let me shoot, just because I'm not following their foolish rules.

 

No more organized shooting events for me with those self-righteous whited sepulchers!

 

I'm no good dresser in church myself, but I regret the passing of dressing up in Sunday best. It was just a sign of seriousness and respect, not a requirement for salvation! I often muse that my granddad wouldn't be caught dead in the stuff I sometimes wear....

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2 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

would Jesus deny sharing his word with someone who was dressed inappropriately?

 

I think this sums up the attitude of the majority of Orthodox Christians:

 

"

Metropolitan Anthony (Bloom) of Sourozh was a well known archpastor, preacher, spiritual guide and brilliant writer on prayer and the Christian life. He was, himself, a great man of prayer.
His sermon below is, most likely, the shortest ever recorded. Yet the impact of the same continues to reverberate as an exceptional spiritual reminder and guide to prayer. 

“One Sunday Metropolitan Anthony Bloom gave a sermon as follows:

‘Last night a woman with a child came to this church. She was in trousers and with no headscarf. Someone scolded her. She left. I do not know who did that, but I am commanding that person to pray for her and her child to the end of his days to God for their salvation. Because of you she may never go to church again.’

He turned around, head down, and entered the Altar. That was the entire sermon.”

Even at our Paschal Services you will see men in jeans and flannel shirts, women in pants with no head covers.  

As both Red and I have mentioned, it's a sign of respect.  Would you go to court, or a job interview, or a meeting with the Governor or President looking like you had just spent 12 hours bucking hay in the Permian Basin in August? No?  Why not?

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3 hours ago, MizPete said:

Have Catholic women gone back to covering their hair in church?  During the 13 years BabyGirl was in school none of us ever did.

There is a growing movement back to Traditional Catholicism: Latin Mass, reverence... Vatican 2 opened the door via weaponized ambiguity, allowing all sorts of liturgical and other abuses, tho worst of which I would say is communion on the hand.

 

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22 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

Would you go to court, or a job interview, or a meeting with the Governor or President looking like you had just spent 12 hours bucking hay in the Permian Basin in August? No?  Why not?

Different situation. An interview you should dress appropriately for the job you're trying to get. It's not about tradition or respect. But an expectation of who you are and that you understand whats needed to work somewhere.

I am trying not to offend. I've designed Catholic Churches. During the process I was always asking questions about the why's, or traditions, or religious connotations. I ask about this trying to understand.  My biggest issue is trying to understand how what is written by man becomes an extension of "Gods" word!

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1 hour ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

I won’t mention the denomination. At the age of seventeen, as I left the auditorium of the church I had attended for most of my life, I was cornered by one of the elders of the church. 
 

My hair had grown to shoulder length. He pulled me aside and said something to the effect that if I continued to wear my hair long, I would wind up in hell.

 

I replied that if I got there before he did, I’d have a beer and wait on him. I asked what had come of “Judge not” and where did he get off!!

 

 I joined another church a couple of years later, but when I came to services some time later wearing clean bib overalls and a two pocket long sleeved shirt, I was scolded by some of the sanctimonious members there for not “dressing right”.

 

After that, I decided that worship didn’t require a building or a bunch of other people, or for that matter, any kind of organized religion.

 

 I haven’t and probably never again will attend an organized worship service!!

 

 I seriously doubt that my choice will have much to do with where my soul ends up!!

Never have had that problem in a Catholic Church. Sadly, many abuse this and go to Mass dressed ridiculously casual.

One should make an effort to present themselves before God in a respectable manner, but some people take it to an extreme.

That long hair nonsense is from the usual misreading of scripture.

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2 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Different situation. An interview you should dress appropriately for the job you're trying to get. It's not about tradition or respect. But an expectation of who you are and that you understand whats needed to work somewhere.

I am trying not to offend. I've designed Catholic Churches. During the process I was always asking questions about the why's, or traditions, or religious connotations. I ask about this trying to understand.  My biggest issue is trying to understand how what is written by man becomes an extension of "Gods" word!

 

 

In the situations I mentioned it is still a show of respect.  As to "how what is written by man becomes an extension of "Gods" word!" since in the New Testament it is written that women should cover their heads, I fail to see how you can think it is a man made rule.  

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Just now, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Different situation. An interview you should dress appropriately for the job you're trying to get. It's not about tradition or respect. But an expectation of who you are and that you understand whats needed to work somewhere.

I am trying not to offend. I've designed Catholic Churches. During the process I was always asking questions about the why's, or traditions, or religious connotations. I ask about this trying to understand.  My biggest issue is trying to understand how what is written by man becomes an extension of "Gods" word!

No offense taken.

It is a different situation, but in the opposite direction. Worshiping God is FAR more important than an interview for a job. And it depends on circumstances, location... This type of judgemental, holier than thou I have seen pretty exclusively from non-Catholic congregations, who interpret the bible based on their personal views.

 

The bible was not "written by man" as you state, however. It was inspired by God the Holy Spirit, through the Apostles and OT Prophets, and canonized by the Catholic Church. For about the first 400 years there was no bible: only what is called Sacred Tradition (the spoken Word of God kept by the Catholic Church.) The Catholic Church later met in counsels and, inspired by the Holy Spirit, decided what books belonged in or not in the Bible. So its not the Bible alone that we can use: that's why you have so many people saying different things, more than 40,000 denominations and perpetually dividing. The Bible has been pretty much co-opted (sans seven books in the OT) and used by individuals to cherry-pick with their own personal opinion.

 

All that to say, the bible is not the word of man, but it has been misrepresented by men.

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Just an additional two cents worth. Alpo asked a question about practices and perhaps, their reasons. I think that the different practices of different demoninations, and the reasons they put forward, are of considerable interest.

 

But if we're going to get into the substance of actual theological disputes, then a useful and interesting topic isn't going to last much longer.

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22 hours ago, Alpo said:

When you light a candle, to say a prayer, is there like a donation box there on the rack of all the candles? So once you've lit your candle you can make a donation to the church?

 

Seems like I heard, many many years back, that was the way it worked. They just lit a candle on a TV show, and not only did he not leave any money, but there did not appear to be any place for you to leave money.

 

Having been raised Methodist, the things I do not know about Catholicism would probably fill several books.

yes , in my church when i was young there was , i was told that was to pay for the candles and maintenance , not meant to make money on ones sorrow , ive not thought of this in decades as ive not been practicing in that long , i had a falling out with the church's thinking on kids a long while ago - not something worth dwelling on in this thread as the candles and the reason for lighting are the topic and the underlying element is the money , ill stay with that 

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As an Pastor I have often, even preached in Clean Newer Jeans , button Up shirt and Western Wool Vest.

My Church is a Hospital, The Sick, the Downtrodden, The Poor, the Hurting and the lost are All Welcome.

God loves US all, and through the Blood of Christ all can be restored to health of Mind, Body and soul...

God does not judge by the outward appearance, but by what is in your heart...

 

So how Would I dare to Judge by Outward Appearance ...

Let me tell you there are plenty of "Nice Looking" Church Going Folk that are Bitter, Nasty, Self Serving, Obnoxious, Smelly and hypocrites to go around ... 

 

Jabez Cowboy 

 

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Well, this is all true, Jabez, and I don't think many believers would say otherwise.

 

I don't think that there is a person here who thinks raiment makes any difference to the Lord. But that's not what we're discussing, really. There are many worship traditions and all of them have cogent reasons for various practices,  but none elevate these practices to judgment by outward appearance.

 

Obviously, there are always pompous pettifoggers that do this, but that can't be avoided to some degree.

 

My own view is simple. St. Paul said let worship be decently and in order, that's all. But worship is only part of the life. It has nothing to do with who is welcomed into the Faith in the first place.

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If we don't Welcome them in because they don't fit with Our Idea of what Is required to be In Church,,, Most will never Come In ...

Traditions must take a back seat to Salvation !

God loves Us in the state in which He finds Us, But he loves Us too much to leave Us in the State in Which He found Us ....

You can have a well ordered Worship Service in either Suits or In Jeans ...

I lead a Pretty Conservative Congregation of a Holiness Church, and sometimes need to remind my people that Christ Came to Save the Lost, even those that Don't fit our idea of Proper Church Folk ....

 

Jabez Cowboy 

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I was in college.
My buddy and his girlfriend invited me to go with them one Sunday morning.

I thought they were going to breakfast.

It was church.

I was in a flannel shirt and wrinkled jeans (my boots were well polished, at least I had that going for me!) and when we wheeled into the Church lot instead of Perkins' Pancake House, I was ... much ... less than comfortable.

I was welcomed as if I were family.

After that I went regularly.

In a shirt and tie.

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10 hours ago, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said:

As an Pastor I have often, even preached in Clean Newer Jeans , button Up shirt and Western Wool Vest.

My Church is a Hospital, The Sick, the Downtrodden, The Poor, the Hurting and the lost are All Welcome.

God loves US all, and through the Blood of Christ all can be restored to health of Mind, Body and soul...

God does not judge by the outward appearance, but by what is in your heart...

 

So how Would I dare to Judge by Outward Appearance ...

Let me tell you there are plenty of "Nice Looking" Church Going Folk that are Bitter, Nasty, Self Serving, Obnoxious, Smelly and hypocrites to go around ... 

 

Jabez Cowboy 

 

 

9 hours ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

Well, this is all true, Jabez, and I don't think many believers would say otherwise.

 

I don't think that there is a person here who thinks raiment makes any difference to the Lord. But that's not what we're discussing, really. There are many worship traditions and all of them have cogent reasons for various practices,  but none elevate these practices to judgment by outward appearance.

 

Obviously, there are always pompous pettifoggers that do this, but that can't be avoided to some degree.

 

My own view is simple. St. Paul said let worship be decently and in order, that's all. But worship is only part of the life. It has nothing to do with who is welcomed into the Faith in the first place.

 

 

I'd say both points as valid.

We can go to an extreme in either direction. God loves us no matter our weaknesses, yes, but we must also do our part. Going to mass in beat up close because that's all we have... fine. Going to mass in beat up clothes because we think its not a big deal and its just easier... that's a problem. It's like a marriage. If all you have the ability to do at the moment is give your spouse a TV dinner, and a daisy picked from the yard, on your anniversary, then that's as good as anything. But you strive for more when you can. Giving your spouse the same thing when you have the ability to do more later would be insulting.

 

Kind of like Jesus telling the mob "He who has no sin, cast the first stone". It's a favorite quote by many who wish to do whatever they wish without reproach, but the part usually left out is the woman repenting, and Jesus saying to "Go, and sin no more".

 

I think that one of the big problems these days is we are too quick to expect God to just take whatever we want to give.

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