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APP Clogging in Dillon Funnel (Again)


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Howdy Pards,

I know this topic has been hashed over a few times with no real remedy but APP keeps getting clogged in the drop tube and wreaking havoc on the cartridge and leaves a big mess. I really want to start using APP but I honestly don't have the time to hand load every charge. I have cleaned my funnel, drop tube, replaced the drop tube, tried a slow pull, fast pull, tapping with a wrench at the top and nothing seems to work. Well I was thinking about putting a couple larger desiccant bags in the hopper with the powder to absorb any moisture in an attempt to stop the powder from clumping in the funnel when dropped. I am going to try to find some now.  What do you all think or any other ideas that may work???

 

Grinnin Jim

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What caliber are you loading?  Have you tried using the large powder die, this usually works better (for APP) than the small.  I know you said that you cleaned it, but I’d make sure that you clean from the powder hopper on down and dry well (use compressed air and allow to dry overnight) before putting any powder in.  In 2 years I haven’t had a problem measuring using this method with 3F APP.  Oh and as far as the fast vs. slow pull I’m partial to slow, it’s probably me but I think it gives the powder a chance move where it needs to.

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If you're using the Dillon powder measure,  try using the TALL charge bar. I was having the same problem with BlackMZ. 447504535_Dillonsmallbar1ccJuly2020.jpg.9a8fdbe56b8c57152e6d44f835072740.jpg

 

Dillon with short bar.

 

1748736308_Dillonlargebar1_4backJuly2020.jpg.713c83bd36b482b90ecda507e842a7d9.jpg

 

Dillon with TALL bar.

 

1254637425_Dillon450measureapartJuly2020.jpg.4af4c0c6258aa341f3c02be936b4c404.jpg

 

I also cleaned up the funnel.

 

 

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APP does tend to clump up....

Before I start Loading I always pour mine into a large clean plastic bowl and check if for clumps....

Any I find I crush em with a plastic spoon.

Then I pour it into the Hopper.

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TWO possible problems.  One is the "Drop Tube."  I am trying to figure out why you're using a drop tube with APP.  There is no advantage.  The drop tube will also build up residue just like the Powder Thru Die.  Next, you don't mention "which" APP.  If your loading 2F APP, it's is very inconsistent in granule size and will "Bridge" in a Heartbeat.  3F will run much better although 3F will still bridge occasionally.  There is some give and take with APP.  Attempting to "pack" the cases with a drop tube is a mistake.

 

I run APP exclusively thru my 650.  I also run the DILLON Powder Check Die.  When APP bridges, the alarm lets me know there is a short Powder charge, that will be followed by an over charge.  I pull those cases and re-run them later.

 

It is also necessary to religiously clean the powder thru die and the measure.  I also found the "small" powder bar to be mostly useless.  I use the "large" powder bar for everything.  I also don't try to go "fast" so I have time to fix the bridged cases.

 

Best of luck

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Thanks for all the input so far, leaves me with hope since so many of you are successfully using it. Here is the set up I am using and the powder funnel is brand new and am using the large powder bar. This is the first time loading with APP (Shooters World) and it is 3F. The powder gets stuck in the powder through die I guess it’s called and backs up into the funnel and then I have a mess! 

27195052-CDA2-40A1-B234-01590CD5578B.jpeg

2FD6EFBE-B35F-44C0-8644-6094F6675CC3.jpeg

BE2F9A0E-7796-43B7-83B2-CF9BAEC2EDAC.jpeg

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Haven't loaded any shooters World powder yet but I have loaded a lot of APP. APP will form clumps while sitting in the bottle. I break them up by pouring out the full bottle till it is about half full. make sure the lid is tight and then shake the powder for about a minute. Pour this into the powder measure and then do the remaining powder the same way. 

 

To catch the little desiccant bags and any clumps that the shaking didn't get I pour the powder through a piece of wire mesh with holes about 1/8" across. Cut a piece of mesh so that it fits into a funnel made from a 1 or 2 liter pop bottle. Screen the powder through this mesh as you pour it into your powder measure. 

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OK.  Now you’ve got me.  The App your using use to be Known as “Black MZ”.  I never personally used it.  It is my understanding, it was only made in a single granulation which mimed 2F APP.  I have only ever shot straight APP branded APP.

 

2F APP was a disaster in my DILLON measure.  It bridged in the thru die (that’s what you have) constantly and would back up into the measure funnel.  A total GROAN.  For the last several years I have exclusively used APP, branded as APP, 3F for cartridge loading.  Again, large powder bar, for both large (44 - 45) and small (38) cases.  NO DROP TUBE.

 

Now, two suggestions.  If you want to use APP in your suppositories, contact Scarlett @ Bullets by Scarlett” and pick up some actual APP branded APP 3F.  Then invest in the DILLON Powder Check die (650??).  I can usually run an entire loading session (300 rounds) with one or two bridges which DO NOT back up into the funnel.  Don’t Give Up!

 

Coffinmaker

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The powder the OP is using is not Black Mz He is loading with Shooters World Black.

 

AFAIK Black Mz was sold exclusively by Sportsman's Warehouse and is no longer being manufactured. From what I can tell through actual examination Black Mz was a 2.5F granulation with a lot of smaller grains mixed in. While made under the same patent as APP I have found no verifiable proof that APP was actually making it and not just licensing their patent to a third party manufacturer.

 

I haven't actually examined a bottle, but I have been led to believe that the powder the OP is using has the same size granules as 3F APP. I do know that it is made exclusively for Shooters World by American Pioneer Powder. 

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I think you are over estimating the amount of time it takes to hand dip a powder charge into a primed case.

 

 I accumulate 50 primed cases in a tray, taking them off the Dillon 550 at station 3.  Using a funnel and dipper, all 50 can be charged easily in 3 1/2 minutes, sometimes less. Then seat and crimp the bullets routinely.

 

The peace of mind is worth it.  You are spending more time cleaning the powder dispenser than you would be using a funnel and dipper.

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There’s one more thing that I do that may help you.  I never pour from the bottle into powder reservoir directly, I use a plastic funnel, if there’s any clumps it can’t get through.  Take your powder through tube and make sure that it’s clean, if you’re thinking that it’s galled them just get some fine sandpaper wrapped on a dowel and lightly sand it.  Shooter’s World is made by APP (just as Black MZ was), I was given a bottle when it first came out to try.  It works ok the only thing that I found was the granulation was not as consistent as APP label.  BTW your powder reservoir is too clean :P

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Hey, Jim! I have some APP for you from Scarlett. If you have some time after the Riverbend shoot, we can chat about all of this. If we have the opportunity, I live about 14 miles from the range & have a setup we can discuss. I load 38's on a 1050 with APP, 32's on a 650 with 777, & 12 ga shotshells on a MEC 9000 with 777.

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Nothing to contribute to this discussion, mainly posting to subscribe and leave a note to myself why. I have not started reloading yet.

 

But for minor contributions...

 

No, your press will not blow up from static. It is difficult to ignite powder with electricity and even harder when it is graphited. That is the "g" in FFFg. Electric charges run on the surface and are conducted well, so there is not enough heat to ignite it. An electric charge tends to push the particles apart rather than create a path for ignition.

 

Static... That can still be a factor, grounding the press may reduce clogging due to static cling. Even with graphited powder. Conductive particles (think FFFg) will cling to a charged surface.

 

So, my learning suggests grounding the press may reduce clogging (maybe). And a powder check bar makes great sense. An overcharge makes a mess, and undercharge can make a squib.

 

But sifting the powder through a screen... So there are no clumps in the hopper. That makes a lot of sense! Especially here in Tennessee where humidity gets ridiculous in the summer.

 

Dillon recommends not running black powder in their presses. Clearly explosion is not the reason. Consistency of charge may be a reason. Static cling? Clumping? IDK yet. But I will be working through it in the future and this post is to mark it for future review.

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14 minutes ago, Max Payne said:

Hey, Jim! I have some APP for you from Scarlett. If you have some time after the Riverbend shoot, we can chat about all of this. If we have the opportunity, I live about 14 miles from the range & have a setup we can discuss. I load 38's on a 1050 with APP, 32's on a 650 with 777, & 12 ga shotshells on a MEC 9000 with 777.

Oh that sounds great Max, Thanks so much!!!!  I will see you then! 

 

Grinnin Jim

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@Grinnin Jim if you’re thinking of getting a powder check take a look at this one DAA Powder Check  Pards on here have used it and like it.  It shows out of stock but if you call them the wait is usually only a couple of weeks.

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15 hours ago, Tequila Shooter said:

There’s one more thing that I do that may help you.  I never pour from the bottle into powder reservoir directly, I use a plastic funnel, if there’s any clumps it can’t get through.  Take your powder through tube and make sure that it’s clean, if you’re thinking that it’s galled them just get some fine sandpaper wrapped on a dowel and lightly sand it.

 

These two tips are were the solution to our problem many years ago.  We use a small plastic funnel and make sure everything goes through that on its way into the powder measure.  Takes a lot less time than cleaning up after a clump blocks the measure.  I also make sure to clean the powder measure and components after every session as the powder can build up in there.  I find that a brass barrel brush of the correct size does the job admirably. 

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I never used and black powder in my Dillon but have always used a fish tank aerator to keep my powder moving.I use a pice of vecro strap to hold it on to the powder holder.It just shake it a little but works.Trail Boss would hang up a little loading 32s.

 

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I had a few squibs when I first started but never one after I put the aerator  on,They are like 5 or 6 dollars and  Walmart.maybe a little more now I had it for a long

 time.

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2 hours ago, Pit Bull Tex said:

I had a few squibs when I first started but never one after I put the aerator  on,They are like 5 or 6 dollars and  Walmart.maybe a little more now I had it for a long

 time.

Wait a minute!!! I do not understand this whole aerator thing, does it blow the grains into the cartridge??? LOL  Never heard of it! What is it exactly???

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Just now, Grinnin Jim said:

Wait a minute!!! I do not understand this whole aerator thing, does it blow the grains into the cartridge??? LOL  Never heard of it! What is it exactly???

 

An aquarium air pump rubbered band to the side of the powder hopper.  The vibrations from the pump (no hoses attached) are transferred to the powder hopper and keeps the powder flowing.  

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36 minutes ago, Matthew Duncan said:

 

An aquarium air pump rubbered band to the side of the powder hopper.  The vibrations from the pump (no hoses attached) are transferred to the powder hopper and keeps the powder flowing.  

Ingenious!

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On 2/24/2021 at 4:40 PM, J-BAR #18287 said:

I think you are over estimating the amount of time it takes to hand dip a powder charge into a primed case.

 

 I accumulate 50 primed cases in a tray, taking them off the Dillon 550 at station 3.  Using a funnel and dipper, all 50 can be charged easily in 3 1/2 minutes, sometimes less. Then seat and crimp the bullets routinely.

 

The peace of mind is worth it.  You are spending more time cleaning the powder dispenser than you would be using a funnel and dipper.

 

This exactly how I load with it, works great.

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Jim, I still have your APP in the truck. I'll be at Riverbend setup Friday from 8:30 to about 10:30 if you have any interest in coming. Otherwise, I'll see you Saturday. I use APP with no problems for 38, so we can chat about that also. I live in Cumming. If you want to come over after setup or after the shoot to check out my loading operation, we can do that too.

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