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Widder, SASS #59054

What is a Clean Miss?

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The distance between targets should be at least 2 Large Dairy Queen Blizzards wide; flavor not important, but Oreo is one of the best ;)

 

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When I setup I consider the height as part of the setup. I squat and make sure the targets are spaced well and I also allow for taller shooters as well. While it's hard to grow...…..it's still pretty easy to tell if you have overlap for taller shooters. 

 

IMO I have plenty of room to setup so there isn't any need to push the overlap. Now don't get me wrong I like to have some stages where you can burn em' down and the targets are close but not so close there is overlap for confusing or unequal calls......especially rifle v pistol targets. 

 

As far as east & west I'll put them as close as maybe 5 inches or so if it's a barn burner. 

 

 

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Great post Fellers.   Thanks.

 

Junky's post also gave me a thought on target placements in relationship to their design, i.e..... square, rectangular, diamond, round..... etc...

 

Example:  if 2 diamond shaped targets are spaced 1/2 inch apart with ONLY the right tip of the left target and the left tip

of the right target being 1/2 inch...may even less.   To me, this setup would allow a Clean Miss because only a super

small portion of the targets would be close.

 

BUT, if you take 2 square or retangular targets and set them up with the same spacing from edge to edge, this would

not allow a clean miss, in my opinion.

 

Like Phantom posted earlier, it can be subjective.    

 

Some of you Pards are starting to make me think differently about the 'clean miss' thing.

 

..........Widder

 

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Once I noticed that the shotgun targets were really close.   I happened to be using my Parker that day.   The one with 18" barrels.   Just to see if it would work, I pointed the gun "between" the targets and gave 'em both barrels.  Both targets went down.   My shoulder was very angry, but the comment was, two shots, two targets down, two hits. 

 

Later that day, I had stubborn target that would not got down.   Once again, I gave it both barrels.    My shoulder REALLY hated me after that.

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18 hours ago, Grizzly Dave said:

 

Pour me three fingers and I'll ponder it a spell.....

 

 

In for a penny, in for a pound Grizz..........might as well get a fist of whisky!

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Okay, obviously I’m new to the whole CAS party, but from what I can figger and cipher, stirring in the ‘shooter gets the benefit of the doubt’, etc., I kinda see it as this:

 

- gun goes bang, piece of steel goes ping, short of the shooter fessin’ up you can’t really say he WASN’T shooting at that piece of steel, but just mistook which one to shoot at.  That makes it a P.

 

- gun goes bang, nothing goes ping — THAT’S a ‘clean miss’. 

 

But, I’m still learnin’ my way around the ranch here, so take whatever I say with a big grain of salt. 

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Howdy Ozark Ranger.    Your grain of salt is just as good as the rest of us old salts..... ;)

 

Your summation of hits and miss is correct.   But in this discussion of missing the correct target

and hitting another 'like' target that either overlaps or is much too close wouldn't warrant a 'P' but

rather just a miss.

 

My reasons for this thread are to learn from others what might constitute what is referred to as a 'Clean Miss',

where a shooter is given the Miss but not a 'P' for hitting that 'kissing' target hanging right beside it.

 

I don't pretend to know the right answer but the few times I have witnessed it,  there was a judgement

call involved.   And those judgement calls seem to be 'subjective'.

 

When I started this thread, I was thinking maybe 4 inches or so would be a reasonable measurement between

targets.   But I must admit that Creekers post takes ALL doubt and guess work out of it and allows

a clear cut manner in deciding how to determine whether a shot is determined a 'Clean Miss'  or a 'P'.

 

Thanks everyone for your good input.

 

..........Widder

 

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8 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Like Phantom posted earlier, it can be subjective.

Except it's ALWAYS subjective. Unless we develop a standard minimum spacing between targets based on the various angles one could engage them, it is subjective. The only way to take away the guess work is get rid of the "clean miss" clause. If a bullet strikes a target out of order (for any reason) it's a P. 

Trying to get that rule changed would be one of the classic blunders  - the most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line"! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha...

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 How do you score a clean miss?  Shooter fires five shots and hits the right type of target with all five shots and you score it as a miss :wacko:

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11 minutes ago, Wyatt said:

 How do you score a clean miss?  Shooter fires five shots and hits the right type of target with all five shots and you score it as a miss :wacko:

I'd like to answer your question, but I'm afraid I don't understand what it is you're asking.

 

In your example, are there any overlapping targets? Are there any targets that are separated by a fraction of an inch?

 

That's kinda what we're dealing with here.

 

Phantom

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This is my idea of a Clean Miss.

 

 

Clean Miss.PNG

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Marshal,

where did you get a pic of my long ago girlfriend?  ;)

 

P.S. - if you look real close, you'll see some blow bubbles I'm making under the water..... :D

 

..........Widder

 

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1 hour ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Marshal,

where did you get a pic of my long ago girlfriend?  ;)

 

P.S. - if you look real close, you'll see some blow bubbles I'm making under the water..... :D

 

..........Widder

 

Widder, buddy. If you smell her breathe and get a hint of nanner split, think nothing of it.

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1 hour ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Marshal,

where did you get a pic of my long ago girlfriend?  ;)

 

P.S. - if you look real close, you'll see some blow bubbles I'm making under the water..... :D

 

..........Widder

 

 

Are you making those bubbles with your snorkel? :P

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    Here is one I'm guilty of. I missed the red knockdown and hit the middle rifle target. Standing there looking at it is different from a bent kneed shooting position. When I missed the knockdown I even said, how in the world did I miss that! Target wasn't far away and ALL of our stages are always good with a mixture of you'd better aim and up close and personal. Stage writer must sprinkle pixie dust on the stages cause they're all fun without a bunch of gotchas. 

20190518_113247.jpg

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This was an interesting thread Widder..

Overlapping/too close together targets??

Seems (from what I've read) targets  1/2" apart is all you need??

What say you after this discussion??

 

Rance ;)

Thinkin' I'm still bewildered is it a miss, 2 misses or a "P" on some of the

scenario posted:wacko:

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Rance - SASS # 54090 said:

This was an interesting thread Widder..

Overlapping/too close together targets??

Seems (from what I've read) targets  1/2" apart is all you need??

What say you after this discussion??

 

Rance ;)

Thinkin' I'm still bewildered is it a miss, 2 misses or a "P" on some of the

scenario posted:wacko:

 

 

 

Hey Rance.

My opinion only:   It would be nice if our 'subjectiveness'  had more of a distinct guideline....... something like

3-4" apart.   But, who really wants to start measuring?   I don't.

 

Honestly, I like Creeker's position.   Its a defined method and eliminates any subjective judgement calls...AND, it

makes it the same for all of us.

One other thing I must admit..... If I miss an 18x20" plate at 15 yards with my rifle and hit another plate 3" to the side,

there is NO WAY I will argue the 'Clean Miss'  thing.

Missing something like that and hitting the wrong target deserves a legitimate 'P' for me..... ;)

 

What's on your mind?

 

..........Widder

 

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Just my Thinkin only.. :wacko:

In the previous scenarios provided..

and using Creekers guidelines?? or a 4" to 5" separation of targets..

 

1-2-4-4-5 scenario..

I can give benefit of doubt to the shooter.. 1 miss..

but.. I would not argue too hard against a "P" for a double tap??

 

1-2-4-3-5 scenario..

Shooter earned a "P" period.. :mellow:

 

Rance ;)

Squirrely thinkin I know :blink:

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5 hours ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

This is my idea of a Clean Miss.

 

 

Clean Miss.PNG

Finally!  The term should be "CLEAR Miss"...

 

And Widder... if you want my thoughts... see:  https://forums.sassnet.com/index.php?/topic/288010-target-distance/

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Soooo......., James Coburn just earned a Miss and not a P when he was aiming for the horse? :huh::lol:

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12 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I'd like to answer your question, but I'm afraid I don't understand what it is you're asking.

 

In your example, are there any overlapping targets? Are there any targets that are separated by a fraction of an inch?

 

That's kinda what we're dealing with here.

 

Phantom

 

 Let me type slowly so you can understand 

 

On the score sheet/device where you post scores which includes time, misses, procedurals, safeties, SDQ’s, MDQ’s, SOG’s for every  participant at the match. What is entered on the score sheet for a “Clean Miss”  due to overlapping , separation or whatever excuse you can come up with ?

 

 If you don’t understand please don’t bother responding I don’t know how to express it any clearer 

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1 hour ago, Wyatt said:

 

 Let me type slowly so you can understand 

 

On the score sheet/device where you post scores which includes time, misses, procedurals, safeties, SDQ’s, MDQ’s, SOG’s for every  participant at the match. What is entered on the score sheet for a “Clean Miss”  due to overlapping , separation or whatever excuse you can come up with ?

 

 If you don’t understand please don’t bother responding I don’t know how to express it any clearer 

THE SHOOTER'S TIME.  + one (or more) miss if there was an opportunity for a clear miss and the shooter didn't hit another like target out of sequence; or "P" if they did.   If there was no opportunity for a clear miss, (overlapping or not enough separation}, that "P" gets entered as a "miss".

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1 hour ago, Wyatt said:

 

 Let me type slowly so you can understand 

 

On the score sheet/device where you post scores which includes time, misses, procedurals, safeties, SDQ’s, MDQ’s, SOG’s for every  participant at the match. What is entered on the score sheet for a “Clean Miss”  due to overlapping , separation or whatever excuse you can come up with ?

 

 If you don’t understand please don’t bother responding I don’t know how to express it any clearer 

I'm sorry, but your question is so beyond basic that I just couldn't grasp what it was you were asking.

 

See Griff's answer.  

 

And thanks for being so "Cowboy" in your post.<_<

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Thank you Griff. That is how I would call and score a “Clean Miss “

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4 minutes ago, Wyatt said:

Thank you Griff. That is how I would call and score a “Clean Miss “

I knew you knew the answer, I just had to type slowly enough for you to follow along.  :P All these other guys type so fast it's hard for spotters to follow.  :D

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12 minutes ago, Griff said:

I knew you knew the answer, I just had to type slowly enough for you to follow along.  :P All these other guys type so fast it's hard for spotters to follow.  :D

 

Thats funny.   I'm one of them amphibidextrious fellers.    I can normally type with my brain disengaged...

and still use all 11 fingers with great viscosity..... :lol::D

 

..........Widder

 

 

 

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41 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

Thats funny.   I'm one of them amphibidextrious fellers.    I can normally type with my brain disengaged...

and still use all 11 fingers with great viscosity..... :lol::D

 

..........Widder

 

 

 

And Griff was just being facetious with his typing slowly remark. Unlike Wyatt... Nice going Wyatt!

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 . . . . and the pizzin' match resumes.

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5 minutes ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

 . . . . and the pizzin' match resumes.

Pizzin' match nothing!

 

You like having people treat you like crap?

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55 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Pizzin' match nothing!

 

You like having people treat you like crap?

No, but I got over getting my shorts in a wad because of something some jerk wrote on internet forums a long, long, time ago.

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28 minutes ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

No, but I got over getting my shorts in a wad because of something some jerk wrote on internet forums a long, long, time ago.

Yer a better man than me.

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13 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Yer a better man than me.

We all have our good days and bad days, Phantom.  Buy you a beer?

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