Loaded cylinder = loaded gun?

[Three Foot Johnson]

I was doing some experimenting yesterday with a .40 S&W cylinder in a .38-40/.40 S&W convertible Vaquero. Due to a slightly oversize bullet or insufficient taper crimp, many of the rounds were quite difficult to chamber, so I removed the cylinder to make it easier to push them all the way in, then re-inserted the cylinder in the frame. My question is, could this have been done at my gun cart, then the loaded cylinder carried to the loading table in my shirt/vest pocket and inserted in the revolver?

 

I believe a loaded and capped percussion cylinder is considered a loaded gun, but how about a centerfire cylinder?

[Griff]

no matter how hard you try, those .38WCF rounds will NOT go in the 40S&W chambers!    But, in answer to your question... I believe the answer is "NO".  But, why not just remove the cylinder at the loading table and load the cylinder there?  

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

IMHO:  I would say it doesn't become a firearm until the frame and cylinder are mated together

 

further-just to add to this discussion, I would say that even without the cylinder pin if the two are put together then it would be a firearm.

 

also getting my popcorn and drink and sitting back to watch 

[Three Foot Johnson]

23 minutes ago, Griff said:

no matter how hard you try, those .38WCF rounds will NOT go in the 40S&W chambers!    But, in answer to your question... I believe the answer is "NO".  But, why not just remove the cylinder at the loading table and load the cylinder there?  

Doing it at the gun cart would have sped things up, instead of struggling with it at the loading table.

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

see you know:  coming to the line with frames in your holsters and a sack of cylinders . . . probably whistling too

[Three Foot Johnson]

FWIW, a .40 S&W case holds the minimum smoke standard of 1cc of black powder. It would be tough to get any more in without excessive compression.

[Castalia,SASS#18915]

Same as a capped percussion cylinder out of the gun.

Not allowed.

If you fumble it and drop it on the ground. You could fire a chamber.

[Matthew Duncan]

3 hours ago, Castalia,SASS#18915 said:

Same as a capped percussion cylinder out of the gun.

Not allowed.

If you fumble it and drop it on the ground. You could fire a chamber.

 

+1

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

3 hours ago, Castalia,SASS#18915 said:

Same as a capped percussion cylinder out of the gun.

Not allowed.

If you fumble it and drop it on the ground. You could fire a chamber.

Oh really?? So how is this different than a loading block??!

 

Phantom

[Matthew Duncan]

A drop cartridge the brass shreds sending shrapnel.  Bullet is not propelled.  I personally witness this in 1975 Indiana Law Inforcemt Academy.   Officer beside me got a nice bloody nick on his cheek. 

 

IMHO A AD of a Cartridge loaded in a cylinder would maintain the integrity of the brass and allow the lead bullet to exit at a unsafe speed.

 

i don't believe the wood of a loading block could maintain the integrity of the cartridge.  Don't loading blocks have "soft" leather covering the primers?

[Marshal TKD, Sass # 36984L]

J Bar do factory 38-40rounds chamber with ease?

[Major Crimes]

13 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Oh really?? So how is this different than a loading block??!

 

Phantom

I am with Phantom on this one.

There may be a technical or past ruling reason why you cant but I doubt its any more dangerous then any other way of "carrying" ammo?

 

[Silver Sam, SASS #34718L]

At a shoot a few weeks back at the loading table a feller was having a little problem w/ his pistol

& he slid the already loaded cylinder out of the frame....

As he slid the still loaded cylinder back into the frame, a round went off.

Surprised the P**P out of everyone, especially him !!!! ... No damage was done & No one was hurt.

We could not figure out exactly how it happened, but it did !

 

I've removed loaded cylinders from pistols before & never given a thought to it...

But NEVER Again !!

[Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362]

Was this a cap and ball revolver?

[Silver Sam, SASS #34718L]

Nope, cartridge gun.....

We thought what may have happened was there was a high primer......

Which would also explain why he was having a problem turning the cylinder before he took it out in the first place......

and as he slid the cylinder back into the frame the primer hit a sharp edeg on the loading gate,

But that was just a guess..........

[Three Foot Johnson]

2 hours ago, Marshal TKD, Sass # 36984L said:

J Bar do factory 38-40rounds chamber with ease?

Not in the .40 S&W cylinder I was using!

[Flying W Ramrod]

You can't cap C&B cylinders at the cart, nor should you load cartridges in your cylinder at the cart.

[Marshal TKD, Sass # 36984L]

12 hours ago, J Bar Binks, #47015 said:

Not in the .40 S&W cylinder I was using!

Get a bigger hammer! Oops. 

[Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362]

 Rounds in the cylinder not in gun ,rounds bouncing around in loading blocks as we go stage to stage, shotgun shells falling from our shotgun belts as we skoot .All could be a hazard. I worry more about the shooters who show up to shoot and skoot and it is raining. This is a dangerous game we play. 

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

This thread reminds me of an odd (to me, anyway) thing that I heard at a match. The brass picker was finished and I saw a live SG round remaining from the shooter ejecting it. He'd loaded two in his double to get one last target. I tossed it to the shooter, who was at the ULT. He told me it was unsafe to toss live rounds like that as it could have hit the ground and gone off.  My thought was, then why would he eject it like he did?

 

Sorry if that was OT. It just came to mind in talking about rounds going off hitting the ground.

[Three Foot Johnson]

I've always thought dumping live shotshells base first onto the ground was a bad idea, but it happens at virtually every match and I've never seen one go off.

[Yusta B.]

7 minutes ago, J Bar Binks, #47015 said:

I've always thought dumping live shotshells base first onto the ground was a bad idea, but it happens at virtually every match and I've never seen one go off.

If it's the last gun shot on a stage I've gotten into the habit of not shucking the last rnds out of the shotgun, instead - opening it,  pulling hulls & placing them on a shelf. It saves someone from having to pick them up.

[Bailey Creek,5759]

Yusa B. I do the same thing.

[Lead Monger]

Interesting thred! I've always gone with the simple rule. You can't carry a charged and capped bp cylinder around with you and you can't carry a loaded conversion cylinder around either. Makes sense a loaded standard cylinder would not be allowed.

[Boggus Deal #64218]

On 5/27/2018 at 11:21 AM, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:

IMHO:  I would say it doesn't become a firearm until the frame and cylinder are mated together

 

further-just to add to this discussion, I would say that even without the cylinder pin if the two are put together then it would be a firearm.

 

also getting my popcorn and drink and sitting back to watch 

Technically, this is a firearm. Just ask the ATF. It’s a serial numbered receiver. Cylinder or not....

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

1 hour ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

Technically, this is a firearm. Just ask the ATF. It’s a serial numbered receiver. Cylinder or not....

as far as AFT is concerned it certainly is

 

for SASS I only see it as a frame--would need the cylinder inserted to be a firearm

 

but, hey, I'm just sharing my thoughts; no one elected me king or boss

 

[Three Foot Johnson]

And BATFE considers this a machine gun.

 

 

Some years back, AMT made a Ruger MKI or MKII clone called the Lightning. AMT serial numbered the lower frame and Ruger put their s/n on the upper frame/barrel assy. Supposedly, the AMT upper would fit the Ruger lower, creating a handgun with no serial number. I once owned an AMT briefly and never thought to try it.