So, who all uses the 1887?

[Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646]

I have tried to shoot my pa's(Blue Boy) CC 87. After years of feeding a 97 with some success I have determined that a higher minimum IQ is required for the 87. I don't make the cut.  I do enjoy seeing someone talented with the 87 make em run. Always enjoy shootin with TN Williams and watching him go at it.

 

Imis    (Temporarily in sxs land while the 97 gets some care) 

[Sedalia Dave]

I have a Lassiter Tuned 87 that I love. Got it for Cody Dixon matches for style points. Like it so well that it is now my main match SG.

 

Shot 3 matches this weekend at 3 different clubs for a total of 18 stages. Figure I put 80 plus rounds of APP loaded shot shells through it doing nothing more than a squirt of Ballistol in the action and then a wipe down of the outside at the end of each day.  It ran perfectly even after a shell ruptured in the action mid stage and a load of #8 shot attempted to jam up the works.

 

I watched Deuce Steven's video on loading and found that I can load better with my strong hand than my weak. Some day I may decide to practice and learn to load with both hands.  

 

 

[Sgt. Saywut]

Hello - I joined SASS and the Wire just today!   The first forum thread that caught my eye was this one, as I think the 87 is WAY cool.  I purchased an early 06 CC issue a few weeks ago, and have been practicing loading and cycling dummy rounds.   It's a challenge, for sure 

 

My girlfriend (who is joining too) and I tried live shells through it this past weekend.  I grabbed some Winchester range loads, 2 3/4" shells, 1 1/8 oz, 3 dram wt, 7 1/2 shot.  The base of each shell was low steel.  We tried the drop 2 loading and firing method, and about every other time, the 87 would fire the first shell, but fail to extract it, causing the second, live shell to be ejected.  I had to use a rod to ram out the spent shell, as it was stuck fairly well.  I did not have any other ammo to try, though.   I have some questions:

 

1) Are steel-based shells known to stick in an 87?

2) I noticed the left-hand extractor was stiff vertically, while the right-hand extractor would flop up and down. Is one or the other normal behavior?

3) Is there anything else I should look for to solve the issue?

4) Is there a cure for having a penchant for oddball firearms??

 

 

[Tennessee williams]

2 minutes ago, Sgt. Saywut said:

Hello - I joined SASS and the Wire just today!   The first forum thread that caught my eye was this one, as I think the 87 is WAY cool.  I purchased an early 06 CC issue a few weeks ago, and have been practicing loading and cycling dummy rounds.   It's a challenge, for sure 

 

My girlfriend (who is joining too) and I tried live shells through it this past weekend.  I grabbed some Winchester range loads, 2 3/4" shells, 1 1/8 oz, 3 dram wt, 7 1/2 shot.  The base of each shell was low steel.  We tried the drop 2 loading and firing method, and about every other time, the 87 would fire the first shell, but fail to extract it, causing the second, live shell to be ejected.  I had to use a rod to ram out the spent shell, as it was stuck fairly well.  I did not have any other ammo to try, though.   I have some questions:

 

1) Are steel-based shells known to stick in an 87?

2) I noticed the left-hand extractor was stiff vertically, while the right-hand extractor would flop up and down. Is one or the other normal behavior?

3) Is there anything else I should look for to solve the issue?

4) Is there a cure for having a penchant for oddball firearms??

 

 

Welcome! This is a great sport with an even greater group of people involved in it. As far as your questions go:

1). I dont use steel headed shells for anything. They're as bad as a rattlesnake with a toothache to me. They're proba ly your problem.

2). Thats normal, its by design.

3). Try brass headed shells first, if that doesnt work call Lassiter or Slater.

4). If there is don't tell me. I dont want to know!

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

I would try a light polish of the chamber, first. Make sure the 2 extractors grip the case head.

You may have a timing issue that will take someone who KNOWS '87s to correct.

Do make sure the screws are TIGHT.

Also-When you cycle a '87- "DRIVE IT, LIKE A STOLEN CAR"! 

JMB didn't design it to be babied.

This site will help you to understand the way of the China made '87s.

http://coyotecap.com/gunsmithingsimplified.htm

 

OLG

 

[Tennessee williams]

43 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

I would try a light polish of the chamber, first. Make sure the 2 extractors grip the case head.

You may have a timing issue that will take someone who KNOWS '87s to correct.

Do make sure the screws are TIGHT.

Also-When you cycle a '87- "DRIVE IT, LIKE A STOLEN CAR"! 

JMB didn't design it to be babied.

This site will help you to understand the way of the China made '87s.

http://coyotecap.com/gunsmithingsimplified.htm

 

OLG

 

Hey, OLG. Lol, I'm not an 87 mechanic but I have stayed at a holiday inn once. I figured if it was a timing issue it wouldn't cycle the dummy rounds either. Also, if he's having to use a ramrod to get the shells out of the chamber after he shoots it, he could break or damage the extractor if it isnt already. Mine will cycle a steel case but just barely. I think they swell more than the brass or something to that affect. But, thats just my humble opinion and not worth too much.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

 

Extractor's 'hook' shape, & spring tension come into play here.

Just because it will cycle dummy rounds, does not mean live fire will go well.

OLG

[Tennessee williams]

1 hour ago, Sgt. Saywut said:

Hello - I joined SASS and the Wire just today!   The first forum thread that caught my eye was this one, as I think the 87 is WAY cool.  I purchased an early 06 CC issue a few weeks ago, and have been practicing loading and cycling dummy rounds.   It's a challenge, for sure 

 

My girlfriend (who is joining too) and I tried live shells through it this past weekend.  I grabbed some Winchester range loads, 2 3/4" shells, 1 1/8 oz, 3 dram wt, 7 1/2 shot.  The base of each shell was low steel.  We tried the drop 2 loading and firing method, and about every other time, the 87 would fire the first shell, but fail to extract it, causing the second, live shell to be ejected.  I had to use a rod to ram out the spent shell, as it was stuck fairly well.  I did not have any other ammo to try, though.   I have some questions:

 

1) Are steel-based shells known to stick in an 87?

2) I noticed the left-hand extractor was stiff vertically, while the right-hand extractor would flop up and down. Is one or the other normal behavior?

3) Is there anything else I should look for to solve the issue?

4) Is there a cure for having a penchant for oddball firearms??

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

 

Extractor's 'hook' shape, & spring tension come into play here.

Just because it will cycle dummy rounds, does not mean live fire will go well.

OLG

There you go Saywut. Its your first homework assignment. Try a shell other than steelhead and see if it works and report back. Inquiring minds want to know. I'm voting if you had to ram the hull out that was stuck fairly well then it wouldn't have extracted it at all. I broke an extractor because of a stuck shell a couple weeks ago so dont force it with the lever if it hangs.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

If the chamber is giving the issue(many I worked on did).

Try a 12Ga 'mop' with Fritz polish on it. Using a section of cleaning rod attached to the mop. Spin it with your drill motor and work it back and forth inside the chamber.

Work this at med speed for about 1 minute and clean it up and test fire.

Good luck,

OLG

[Red Hooker]

7 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Eureka! I found it. Now if someone could tell me what it means.

 

IIRC, the following was the name for the '87 shooters' club:  LASOOS.

 

I was number 86, so someone must be around that remembers.

 

 

"Lever Action Shotgun" suggests itself immediately. "Owners Or Shooters" for the rest?

[Red Hooker]

2 hours ago, Tennessee williams said:

Welcome! This is a great sport with an even greater group of people involved in it. As far as your questions go:

1). I dont use steel headed shells for anything. They're as bad as a rattlesnake with a toothache to me. They're proba ly your problem.

2). Thats normal, its by design.

3). Try brass headed shells first, if that doesnt work call Lassiter or Slater.

4). If there is don't tell me. I dont want to know!

Beware- not all "brass-headed" shells are brass-headed; some are brass-plated steel. Bring a magnet to the gun/ammo aisle.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

I for one have never had any issue with the steel headed cases, in any of our 3, '87s.

Very good point about checking with a magnet.

OLG

[Sgt. Saywut]

Thanks for the responses, folks!  I appreciate the advice.  I'm hoping a chamber polish will take care of the issue, but since this is a Coyote Cap 87, I wonder if something went awry after the shotgun left his shop?

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Cap test fires his '87s with WW-AA loads.

I would call the shop, and see what they say.

Can you post a video of the issues you are having?

 

OLG

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

1 hour ago, Sgt. Saywut said:

Thanks for the responses, folks!  I appreciate the advice.  I'm hoping a chamber polish will take care of the issue, but since this is a Coyote Cap 87, I wonder if something went awry after the shotgun left his shop?

 

Buy 2 3/4 dram loads instead of 3. Your shoulder will appreciate it and they might not stick as bad.

 

Randy

[Sgt. Saywut]

2 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Cap test fires his '87s with WW-AA loads.

I would call the shop, and see what they say.

Can you post a video of the issues you are having?

 

OLG

 

I might contact them; does anyone have their contact info?  Are they members here?

 

The video my gf made really doesn't show anything.   I dropped in two, chambered the first round, pulled the trigger and fired, worked the lever and the shell popped out, closed the lever and pulled the trigger again.  Click.   Opened the action, looked, and realized the ejected shell was the second, live shell.  The stuck shell clearly had a struck primer, so out came the ram rod. 

 

It happened about every other time I loaded two. 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

GOOGLE is your friend.

http://coyotecap.com/

 

Bottom of page.

OLG

[Sgt. Saywut]

34 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

GOOGLE is your friend.

http://coyotecap.com/

 

Bottom of page.

OLG

 

D'oh.   I didn't scroll all the way down when viewing the 87 info...  thanks. 

[Guest Grass Range #51406]

Use only 2 1/2" shells in original 87. Right?

[Rolan Kraps, SASS # 24084 Life]

23 minutes ago, Grass Range #51406 said:

Use only 2 1/2" shells in original 87. Right?

 

Yes; however, many have been modified to shoot 2 3/4" shells.  Pretty common modification.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

NO, original 12ga. Winny '87 lever shotgun was made for smokeless powder. BP only!

Only the last run of '87's in 10ga were made for smokeless, and they are call'd '1901's' as that was when they were made.

Both gauges used shells shorter than what is common today.

OLG

 

 

[Capt. R. Hugh Kidnme]

On ‎9‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 1:15 AM, Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L said:

FWIW - I always push the lifter down at the last opportunity to do so before loading, e.g. when placed on a prop or, if port arms, just before I assume the position. For me, this makes loading the first one on the lifter a smoother operation.

 

Side note: One club I shoot with allows stoking the shotgun. Slow as molasses with the 87 but the enjoyment is well worth it.  I usually do this for six knockdowns or if I am having a bad match and need something to cheer me up. I just tell the spotters beforehand so they can take a break if they want.

This one. An, d as original Lumpy Grits says "run it like you stole it".

[Texas Lizard]

On 9/3/2017 at 8:55 PM, Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L said:

Been using one since 2001. Now have three originals (1888, 1891 and 1897 manufacture) and a Coyote Cap. Prefer the 1891 made original.

 

(And I don't need a 10ga 1901! )

 

Been loading the opposite of PWB (lifter then chamber) but will try his method. (<<Load the same as PWB!)

Are you sure??? I have a few...

 

Texas Lizard

[Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L]

1 hour ago, Texas Lizard said:

Are you sure??? I have a few...

 

Texas Lizard

 

I am sure!

 

(BTW - I knew you would ask. I just tried to head you off at the pass.)

 

 

[Bull Skinner]

My Favorite hulls to reload are Remington Gun Clubs and they are steel headed. My 87 likes em just fine.

[Sgt. Saywut]

2 minutes ago, Bull Skinner said:

My Favorite hulls to reload are Remington Gun Clubs and they are steel headed. My 87 likes em just fine.

 

What are the specs?

[Bull Skinner]

35 minutes ago, Sgt. Saywut said:

 

What are the specs?

 

Do you mean of the factory rounds? I don' know, I don't buy them. I reload the emptied hulls. I get them from others or scrounge them out of the discard bucket. LOL

[Ramblin Gambler]

The only problem I had with my 87 (also a coyote cap special) was that it wouldn't eject some shells.  Since I switched to winchester featherlights, I haven't had any problems other than my own fumbling. 

 

In my case I believe the heads were swelling up and the extractor was just ripping the metal from the head.  When I inspected the shells that didn't eject, I saw the rims all had chunks torn from them.  Then I looked at shells that did eject properly and I noticed a lot of them had blown out tabs where the metal meets the plastic that was grabbing the chamber.  When I shot those rounds in my double I saw the same thing, but they were easier to extract because the extractor is bigger and grabs most of the rim. 

 

Those rounds were fiocchi and something else.  But like I said, when I switched to featherlights, it worked fine. 

[Tennessee williams]

2 hours ago, Ramblin Gambler said:

The only problem I had with my 87 (also a coyote cap special) was that it wouldn't eject some shells.  Since I switched to winchester featherlights, I haven't had any problems other than my own fumbling. 

 

In my case I believe the heads were swelling up and the extractor was just ripping the metal from the head.  When I inspected the shells that didn't eject, I saw the rims all had chunks torn from them.  Then I looked at shells that did eject properly and I noticed a lot of them had blown out tabs where the metal meets the plastic that was grabbing the chamber.  When I shot those rounds in my double I saw the same thing, but they were easier to extract because the extractor is bigger and grabs most of the rim. 

 

Those rounds were fiocchi and something else.  But like I said, when I switched to featherlights, it worked fine. 

^yes

[Rillito Red]

Cap tunes the extractors for AA's.  Not much else works well in his shotguns.

[Rillito Red]

Here is the proper ammo for an '87!

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

And all brass cases. 

OLG

[Dantankerous]

9 hours ago, Rillito Red said:

Here is the proper ammo for an '87!

 

Yeah! Looks great!

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

11 hours ago, Rillito Red said:

Cap tunes the extractors for AA's.  Not much else works well in his shotguns.

 

The 2 Cap race gun '87s we have will feed any 12 ga shell we put in'em.

Thanks to Cap's help, my 'stock', 20 bbl '87 feeds all brass shells also.

Many times, I have seen extraction issues just because they don't run the gun hard enough.

Respectfully,

OLG

[Rillito Red]

I was going off of what he said on his website back in '05, and Captain Baylors' review of the same vintage.  That and the fact my CC '97 and '87 both extract erratically with anything else.