I thought it was a rule......

[Major BS Walker Regulator]

All shotgun shells must be below the belly button.

[Nasty Newt # 7365]

RO 1 pg 21 #34

Thanks. It says you can't leave the area. I'm still not sure when the SDQ kicks in. Judgement call, I guess.

[Alpine Lil, SASS #56935]

You have to wear a belt when wearing a B Western skirt.

[Alpine Lil, SASS #56935]

Here's one that I discovered that was not in the rules......."Do as HE says.". :-)

[Wyatt]

Thanks. It says you can't leave the area. I'm still not sure when the SDQ kicks in. Judgement call, I guess.

.......or local range rules depending on the layout

[Hoss]

T.O. can NOT overrule spotter on misses. However, T.O. can Poll Spotters to insure that at least two Spotters agree on the miss. Example. Spotter #1 say's "Clean", #2 say's one miss (rifle), #3 say's one miss (pistol). No two spotters agree on the miss. All Spotters agree that all Shotgun targets were hit, two Spotters agree that all Pistol targets were hit, two Spotter agree that all Rifle targets were hit. Also, if the T.O. sees an Edge Hit, he.she can ONLY point it out to the Spotters, they do NOT have to change their minds on their call.... However.. they should consider that the T.O. was absolutely sure, or it would not have been brought to their attention.

 

T.O. CAN overrule Spotters and other Range Officers on ALL other calls. It is the T.O.s job to make all the other calls and to use the input from the other Range Officers to make those calls. A good T.O. will NEVER overrule that input unless he/she is POSITIVE that the input is wrong. (usually due to the T.O.s unique position advantage)

 

 

You've heard it said over and over that you MUST see the miss or it is a hit. Since we count Misses, and NOT Hits, it is the most accurate way to Spot and I encourage it. However it is NOT in the Rule Book.

 

agreed. TO can poll spotters and clarify, point out edge hits etc. but if 2 spotters agree on a miss, and don't change their mind, it's a miss!

I did get a poor call once, (was shooting Cody Dixon, targets were 75+ yards, and some were dead (no clang) 1 spotter said he didn't know, another Said maybe 4, another had 6. I thought 1. They could not agree on which targets were missed. Called it 4. Next day TO told me he thought I got a bad deal.

Another time had to shoot a chicken hanging from chains. I drilled it. I spotter said I missed the chicken. It was still bouncing on the end of the chain. When I pointed that out she said she still thought I missed it. Other spotters had it clean.

Moral of the story: if you think it's a hit, it's a hit, if you know it's a miss, it's a miss. If you think it's a miss, it's a hit. I try to get at least 2 inputs to make a call. See the bullet hit the ground or target, hear the bullet hit the target, see the target wobble. I've also seen edge hits on top of target ricochet into trees, knocking leaves or branches out, so if I see leaves falling ill take that into consideration as I judge edge hits. If I'm just not sure I call it what it is.....a miss.

[Cypress Sun]

I thought it was a rule that when the RO\TO doesn't know the rule that the "non official" rules expert is consulted.

 

 

 

If it isn't a rule, it should be...........

[Snakebite]

agreed. TO can poll spotters and clarify, point out edge hits etc. but if 2 spotters agree on a miss, and don't change their mind, it's a miss!

I did get a poor call once, (was shooting Cody Dixon, targets were 75+ yards, and some were dead (no clang) 1 spotter said he didn't know, another Said maybe 4, another had 6. I thought 1. They could not agree on which targets were missed. Called it 4. Next day TO told me he thought I got a bad deal.

Another time had to shoot a chicken hanging from chains. I drilled it. I spotter said I missed the chicken. It was still bouncing on the end of the chain. When I pointed that out she said she still thought I missed it. Other spotters had it clean.

Moral of the story: if you think it's a hit, it's a hit, if you know it's a miss, it's a miss. If you think it's a miss, it's a hit. I try to get at least 2 inputs to make a call. See the bullet hit the ground or target, hear the bullet hit the target, see the target wobble. I've also seen edge hits on top of target ricochet into trees, knocking leaves or branches out, so if I see leaves falling ill take that into consideration as I judge edge hits. If I'm just not sure I call it what it is.....a miss.

 

That is not ALWAYS the case.. if the call is appealed by the shooter, see your ROII course.

 

"Remember, the benefit of the doubt ALWAYS goes to the shooter. At this point, the Chief Range Officer must remain completely objective, review the evidence presented, research the rules, if necessary, and ultimately make the decision. So, if there is not absolutely conclusive evidence of a missed target, shooter error, safety or rule violation, the Chief Range Officer must make every effort to assist the shooter by relating any necessary scoring changes to the score keeper immediately upon resolution."

 

If the Spotters can NOT agree, then it is NOT conclusive!

 

Snakebite

[Blastmaster]

 

That is not ALWAYS the case.. if the call is appealed by the shooter, see your ROII course.

 

"Remember, the benefit of the doubt ALWAYS goes to the shooter. At this point, the Chief Range Officer must remain completely objective, review the evidence presented, research the rules, if necessary, and ultimately make the decision. So, if there is not absolutely conclusive evidence of a missed target, shooter error, safety or rule violation, the Chief Range Officer must make every effort to assist the shooter by relating any necessary scoring changes to the score keeper immediately upon resolution."

 

If the Spotters can NOT agree, then it is NOT conclusive!

 

Snakebite

Snakebite,

 

If two spotters are positive there was a miss as viewed from their dispersed viewing positions, but the TO sees a grazed edger and points it out. Should the two spotters change their for sure count just because the TO happen to be watching and counting targets vs the gun? if someone has to go down range to verify some mark on the target that no one is for sure when it got there is that valid? The difference of hit/miss count could be strictly from the position of viewing and all were doing their jobs correctly. And then of course, are the three counters and TO thinking the same target with the same gun and same shot? Or where they talking about two separate miss? Take a step further, does the counters now have to verify which target was missed. I have seen too many counters at local monthlies roll over at the least hint of 'edger'.

 

I prefer..... Call them like you see them and let it go with that.

[Snakebite]

Snakebite,

 

If two spotters are positive there was a miss as viewed from their dispersed viewing positions, but the TO sees a grazed edger and points it out. Should the two spotters change their for sure count just because the TO happen to be watching and counting targets vs the gun? if someone has to go down range to verify some mark on the target that no one is for sure when it got there is that valid? The difference of hit/miss count could be strictly from the position of viewing and all were doing their jobs correctly. And then of course, are the three counters and TO thinking the same target with the same gun and same shot? Or where they talking about two separate miss? Take a step further, does the counters now have to verify which target was missed. I have seen too many counters at local monthlies roll over at the least hint of 'edger'.

 

I prefer..... Call them like you see them and let it go with that.

I agree.... if the spotters are sure... then they stand their ground when the T.O. tells them he saw a edge hit on such and such target... however... just like the T.O. should consider the input from the Spotters, the Spotters should consider the input from the T.O.. That does NOT mean that they must change their call... the call belongs to THEM, not to the T.O.. If the call is officially appealed by the shooter, then the T.O. becomes more involved in the issue and takes up the case for the shooter by a further investigation. THAT is a very rare situation. If some shooter gets the idea that he will just file an appeal every time he/she is assigned a miss, then it could get very expensive if there is a charge for the appeal (I can tell you for a fact, that more appeals are turned down than accepted) .... if the shooter does win, then they get their money back and the call is changed... if not, then they loose their money and the call stands. I am NOT proposing or encouraging that it go that far... not at all, I was just pointing out the FACT, the there is a situation where the T.O. might legally overrule the spotters on a miss call. As for the spotters remembering exactly where every miss is... that is not going to happen, HOWEVER... I don't think that it is asking too much to remember one miss. If you are going to, maybe, take the course that will cost a shooter a win, then you ought to do a good job. We have far too many people jumping into the Spotting position that are simply NOT qualified to take on one of the most important task at a match. It is the Spotters who very often determine who wins and who looses. THAT is why I have always been so adamantly against the "Cheerleader" style of Spotting. Cheering on a shooter is GREAT... but it should NOT be done by the people who are doing the spotting... they have a more important job to do. I have seen, first hand, too many times when Spotters become involved with Cheering on the Shooter, that they do NOT do their best job as a spotter. This is unfair to every shooter on the range.

 

Snakebite

[Wild Bill Blackerby SASS # 34989]

Driftwood and Wild Bill must always be on the same posse at any match.

 

Not a rule but the law in New England states...we're petitioning for an amendment.

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

Men can wear shirts with sleeves removed as only short sleeve shirts are outlawed.

 

Is it still a shirt with the sleeves cut off or has it become a legal vest?

 

 

Better yet... You can holster loaded pistols until called to the firing line.

 

 

Pretty sure you meant "can't" and not "can" there didn'tcha pard?

[Blastmaster]

4. Don't be a "hard-ass". means that enforcement of rules & assessment of penalties is OPTIONAL...at all levels of competition.

 

It is also acceptable for the entire posse to vote on whether & how to penalize a shooter for a rule violation.

Yep!

 

BOD means that unless you killed the gorilla, all other penalties should be forgiven because you can always fine an ahhhhh, he didn't mean to,

[Bramble Mountain Buzzard]

Was at a state shoot a couple years ago and the posse marshal said you couldn't move with a shotgun until you shucked the empties. I disagreed with him, but he was backed up by 2 territorial governors from 2 different states...

 

 

Wrong is wrong. No matter how many agree or how important of a position they hold...

[The Shoer 27979]

you can not shoot from the hip

[Bones Z]

 

Better yet... You can holster loaded pistols until called to the firing line.

 

Hmmm, I do that every time I load. I just don't leave the loading table until called.

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

Have run into several odd things that caused me not to go back to a few multi day shoots. Loading table can be the worst. Most of the time/places I shoot, there is zero loading table oversight, just the way it is in many parts of the US. But when I go elsewhere, I expect loading table oversight, but some take it to the extreme. One club required that shooters had to put their ammo only in a club provided wooden block before starting to load. They would not let me use my 2 round leather strips so each stage I had to unload my strips into their wooden block so officer could count my rounds. Guess they could only count to 5 not 10. Another would only let 2 shooters at the loading table and no line. You could only go to the loading table when the timekeeper called your name. Officer could only watch a single shooter at a time. The second loaded gun shooter could not touch his guns on the loading table until called to the firing line. Some locations force you to prove your gun is clear before starting to load, gee I thought that was the unloading table officers job. Some clubs prohibit shooters from using the fingers and pointing to the berm and rehearsing the stage, even with guns on table or holstered. Others will not allow you to cycle your guns at the table because they think you might be practicing the stage or something. Others prohibit shooter from cycling his rifle, closing the lever, then pulling the trigger all while the gun is laying on the table. All this to make darn sure rifle is not on safety cock or other.

[evil dogooder]

Heard a new one today. Changing locations with a loaded cocked shotgun is a minor safety

[Dutch Coroner]

Heard a new one today. Changing locations with a loaded chocked shotgun is a minor safety

 

OMG.

[Yul Lose]

Have run into several odd things that caused me not to go back to a few multi day shoots. Loading table can be the worst. Most of the time/places I shoot, there is zero loading table oversight, just the way it is in many parts of the US. But when I go elsewhere, I expect loading table oversight, but some take it to the extreme. One club required that shooters had to put their ammo only in a club provided wooden block before starting to load. They would not let me use my 2 round leather strips so each stage I had to unload my strips into their wooden block so officer could count my rounds. Guess they could only count to 5 not 10. Another would only let 2 shooters at the loading table and no line. You could only go to the loading table when the timekeeper called your name. Officer could only watch a single shooter at a time. The second loaded gun shooter could not touch his guns on the loading table until called to the firing line. Some locations force you to prove your gun is clear before starting to load, gee I thought that was the unloading table officers job. Some clubs prohibit shooters from using the fingers and pointing to the berm and rehearsing the stage, even with guns on table or holstered. Others will not allow you to cycle your guns at the table because they think you might be practicing the stage or something. Others prohibit shooter from cycling his rifle, closing the lever, then pulling the trigger all while the gun is laying on the table. All this to make darn sure rifle is not on safety cock or other.

IMO, some of that stuff sounds like an attempt to make sure shooters don't come back a second time. I ran into the loading block deal at a match and haven't been back, seemed petty to me.

[Snakebite]

Heard a new one today. Changing locations with a loaded cocked shotgun is a minor safety

Changing locations with a loaded cocked shotgun is a No Call.......................................................Changing locations with a loaded cocked shotgun that has the action closed is a SDQ.

 

Snakebite

[Chili Pepper Kid, SASS #60463]

In Classic Cowboy you don't have to wear 5 items if the temp is above 90