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I'm convinced.... we have TWO entirely different SASS groups!


Deadeye George

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You realize that all of the shooters at a SASS match pay to shoot. We aren't paid actors shooting for your amusement.

My statement was a pure business analysis statement. Income must be greater than expense. If your expense can not be controlled then you must increase income by raising the fees. You know the rest.

I shoot,I pay whatever the match fees are. If fees are to rich for my blood , then I will not attend. Same with your local matches.

Don't understand your last statement.

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My statement was a pure business analysis statement. Income must be greater than expense. If your expense can not be controlled then you must increase income by raising the fees. You know the rest.

I shoot,I pay whatever the match fees are. If fees are to rich for my blood , then I will not attend. Same with your local matches.

Don't understand your last statement.

 

If I took your previous post correctly you are essentially arguing if people who don't want to shoot in heavy clothing because it is too hot refuse to shoot, then charge the folks who show up more. As I read your posts as a group you are taking a cowboy purist position. Rules are rules. It ain't cowboy shooting if men aren't dressed in felt hats, heavy long sleeved shirts and heavier pants. The health and wellbeing of our shooters be damned. If a shooter isn't man enough to cut it, he should just sit at home until the fall. If that isn't the argument you are making I apologize.

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If I took your previous post correctly you are essentially arguing if people who don't want to shoot in heavy clothing because it is too hot refuse to shoot, then charge the folks who show up more. As I read your posts as a group you are taking a cowboy purist position. Rules are rules. It ain't cowboy shooting if men aren't dressed in felt hats, heavy long sleeved shirts and heavier pants. The health and wellbeing of our shooters be damned. If a shooter isn't man enough to cut it, he should just sit at home until the fall. If that isn't the argument you are making I apologize.

My post was pointed toward post NO 65. They said that IF they relaxed the rules, they could POSSIBLY draw 2-7 more shooters and be in the financial green. If not, they would be losing money.

As been mentioned, there are lite fabric long shirts&pants, to help with the heat.

Hope this helps

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Uh-huh...and it also exposes the skin to more direct sunlight...is that good??

 

Phantom

 

It's about even steven, really. Human beings evolved in temperate zones without any clothing -- clothing was an adaptation to different conditions (or mores). The more sweat you can make evaporate, the better off you are in heat and humidity, which is why you find native cultures in hot climates where clothing is minimal and used mostly to cover up "private parts." Direct sunlight has its dangers, too, and of course sun block is readily available. But to keep truly cool, you need to expose more skin, allowing the evaporation of your perspiration (sweat) to do its job.

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Oh Pooh, our Hawaiian shoot is coming up. Oh well, here in Missouri we do it our way, not someone elses :lol:

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It's about even steven, really. Human beings evolved in temperate zones without any clothing -- clothing was an adaptation to different conditions (or mores). The more sweat you can make evaporate, the better off you are in heat and humidity, which is why you find native cultures in hot climates where clothing is minimal and used mostly to cover up "private parts." Direct sunlight has its dangers, too, and of course sun block is readily available. But to keep truly cool, you need to expose more skin, allowing the evaporation of your perspiration (sweat) to do its job.

People are reading this thread and probably trying to figure out what the best mode of dress is.

 

I say...I don't know...but I believe that full coverage with appropriate materials are the way to go. I would never make a claim that it's about "even steven" when comparing full coverage vs. shorts and t-shirts since I'm NOT an expert.

 

So, do you have the credentials to make such a statement? I would like to know.

 

Phantom

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I for one,I am going to be covered.I have had to many skin cancers take off that was caused by the sun growing up and in my late 20s and 30s and 40s in the sun with no covering.I will drink a lot more but I will be covered.

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If I took your previous post correctly you are essentially arguing if people who don't want to shoot in heavy clothing because it is too hot refuse to shoot, then charge the folks who show up more. As I read your posts as a group you are taking a cowboy purist position. Rules are rules. It ain't cowboy shooting if men aren't dressed in felt hats, heavy long sleeved shirts and heavier pants. The health and wellbeing of our shooters be damned. If a shooter isn't man enough to cut it, he should just sit at home until the fall. If that isn't the argument you are making I apologize.

Hello Bart,

 

You are taking things to an extreme! You can read about that type of argument on the following site. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

 

No one said folks must wear felt hats, many wear straw in the summer. No one said you must wear heavy shirts, there are the cool max, seersucker, linen, Ecuadorian cotton options. No one said you must wear heavier pants, there are light Cowboy and Ecuadorian options. Somehow I missed this statement in anyone's posts: " If a shooter isn't man enough to cut it, he should just sit at home until the fall."

 

IMO an apology is needed and accepted..

 

The only time I have not dressed according to the rules, we do have rules to keep the spirit of the game intact, was at a Hawaiian-theme shoot.

 

I wore a seniorita outfit to a Wild Bunch match last week. I used sunscreen, SPF 70, on my exposed neckline and still burned. Exposed skin in the sun is not my friend. I'm encountering more and more people who have had procedures for skin cancers. You can read some facts about skin cancer on the following site. http://www.skincancer.org/skin-cancer-information/skin-cancer-facts

 

Here is an idea for a cool outfit-knickers! I'd get a bigger brimmed hat though. I'm referring to the costume on the left.

knickerbockers-1888-jackboots-1868.jpg

 

 

 

Here is a photo from Gentleman's Emporium. I would choose a cotton version of the pants and hat. http://www.gentlemansemporium.com/store/vict_mens_37.php

vict_mens_37_full.jpg

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Wow, haven't checked in on this thread in a while and it looks like most everyone has a chip on their shoulder and their knickers in a twist.

 

The academic discussion about what method of dress is best to handle the heat aside, each club has to do what they feel is best for their shooters and accommodate the wishes of those shooters as they see fit. If that is shorts and t-shirts, so be it, that is their call to make, not yours, not mine. If a club chooses not to make any adjustments in the dress code for weather, again, that is their call to make.

 

Don't like a clubs policies? Take it up with the clubs officers or just don't go there. No need for a big knock down drag out on the wire making a federal case out of it.

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People are reading this thread and probably trying to figure out what the best mode of dress is.

 

I say...I don't know...but I believe that full coverage with appropriate materials are the way to go. I would never make a claim that it's about "even steven" when comparing full coverage vs. shorts and t-shirts since I'm NOT an expert.

 

So, do you have the credentials to make such a statement? I would like to know.

 

Phantom

 

I think this is spot on - full coverage is better than shorts or t-shirts IMO, but you don't want to be struggling in heavy cotton and denim. As a recent import to Texas I was amazed at how much cooler a Stetson can make me feel because of the protection on top of head and back of neck from the sun's rays, despite the weight of the hat. I suspect a straw version would be even better, and is something I need to look into.

 

So does anyone have good pointers to genuine lightweight (e.g. linen pants, poly/cotton shirts) that still work as "cowboy"?

 

Bob

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LINK

Grizzly - thank you for that. Do you have experience of these? How is the fitting? I would typically go medium on cowboy stuff since they all seem to be generous fit, but according their sizing chart I would need a large. You think their sizing is accurate?

 

Bob

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Bob, no I don't, they don't make them large enough for me. I have heard lots of good reviews on them though. I do have several pairs of their cooler cowboy socks and like them a lot.

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Period(ish) clothes at a club monthly fantasy shoot sure is a stupid argument... State or above, annual, etc... Sure, I'll play along.

 

And... For all those white boys and girls who think less clothing is better when you're out in direct sunlight... You need to educate yourself. Brown and black skinned races wore less clothing in those environments because God made them that way. He didn't do so for us...

 

Regardless of how much you're sweating or not sweating, direct sunlight dries your skin. The longer you're out there, the more it dries. The more it dries, the more water your body uses to keep it hydrated... This is why you'll get dehydrated working outside even during cold months. Throw some snow or bodies of water in the mix that reflect sunlight, and it happens even faster.

 

There is no modern army operating in a desert any hot environment in less than long sleeves and long pants. Several options for fabric exist, but the exposed skin lesson was learned many years ago.

 

Now, for the humid southern states... The same rule applies... Cover your skin if you can't get outa the sun. But now it's even more important to pick your fabrics wisely. If your club has a lot of shaded areas for shooters to wait, load, shoot, unload, etc... I see no damn reason why anyone should give anyone at a monthly club shoot any crap about dressing down for the heat.

 

Whatever you're wearing, in whatever environment, drink more water, and eat foods charged with carbs and proteins. Gatorade is ok, but the sugar content isn't doing you any favors. Then sweat, and deal with it.

 

If you're in half decent health, and properly hydrating before, at, and after a match, you won't have a heat injury.

 

To many years of my adult life have been spent visiting extremely hot places that required 40-50 pounds of equipment and full length clothing to believe otherwise.

 

 

 

P.S. I don't see any reason for Bart to apologize to anyone, in this thread.

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The Hornaday shirts are nice.I have 5 of them.If the breeze is blowing just a little they are a whole lot cooler because they wick really fast.If there is no breeze,they are cooler than my cotton ones but if there is a breeze they are really nice.

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Hello Bart,

 

You are taking things to an extreme! You can read about that type of argument on the following site. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

 

No one said folks must wear felt hats, many wear straw in the summer. No one said you must wear heavy shirts, there are the cool max, seersucker, linen, Ecuadorian cotton options. No one said you must wear heavier pants, there are light Cowboy and Ecuadorian options. Somehow I missed this statement in anyone's posts: " If a shooter isn't man enough to cut it, he should just sit at home until the fall."

 

IMO an apology is needed and accepted..

 

 

Having only occasionally worn short sleeve shirts to cowboy matches and then only in accordance with local club rules and never having worn shorts, I appreciate your desire that we should all shoot cowboy all the time. After my recent heat related episode I immediately spent a significant amount of money making sure my outfit was seasonally appropriate. I retired my felt hat, cotton shirt and heavy jeans until the fall. I would point out that a lot of people in SASS are not clothes horses. Many are on fixed incomes and can't afford period correct clothing for every season. I see a lot of seniors who shoot monthly club matches wearing the same costume match after match. The summer rules (how ever you want to characterize them) allow folks on fixed incomes to attend summer matches. I would much rather see someone attend a match in comfort than not attend. More importantly I would rather see someone not suffer in the heat in a felt hat, heavy cotton shirt, and heavy jeans because that is the only cowboy outfit he has.

 

If I have in any way offended by this comment again I apologize. My concern is for the health of all our shooters not just the people who can afford to change their costumes from month to month.

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Grizzly - thank you for that. Do you have experience of these? How is the fitting? I would typically go medium on cowboy stuff since they all seem to be generous fit, but according their sizing chart I would need a large. You think their sizing is accurate?

 

Bob

 

I have one of those shirts, and it's fantastic. Dramatic difference in comfort between that and the bibbed Wahmaker shirt I have. The size seemed to be accurate for what I wear. I wish the sleeves were buttoned to make rolling them up easier, but I'll be buying more of them in the future.

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Maybe there's at least 3 SASS groups.

While I will admit that Strait Arrow Hombre is in no danger of being called a small man he may take exception to you referring to him as a group .

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The Hornaday shirts are nice.I have 5 of them.If the breeze is blowing just a little they are a whole lot cooler because they wick really fast.If there is no breeze,they are cooler than my cotton ones but if there is a breeze they are really nice.

 

Tex,

 

Can you answer my question re sizing? I typically opt for medium since cowboy clothing I have found to be a generous fit from the likes of Scully, etc. However, the Hornaday sizing chart suggests I will need a large. Have you found their sizing to be accurate?

 

Bob

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While I will admit that Strait Arrow Hombre is in no danger of being called a small man he may take exception to you referring to him as a group .

 

What's that white stuff?

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Grizzly - thank you for that. Do you have experience of these? How is the fitting? I would typically go medium on cowboy stuff since they all seem to be generous fit, but according their sizing chart I would need a large. You think their sizing is accurate?

 

Bob

There are worth the price. I have three and love them. Sizing is right in line with the size shirts you normally buy.

 

Another option are the Armachilo shirts available from Duluth Trading Company. Instead of a henley style shirt you can get a long sleeve button down button shirt

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Also, these are very cool. I have one. http://www.jpeterman.com/Mens-Shirts/Otavalo-Mountain-Shirt

 

 

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I have several and they are fantastically comfortable on a hot day, but it should be noted that the white ones

are sheer - almost translucent, so they're only good if you're not back lit too often!

 

Having lived in Arizona and Northern Texas for a while, I can attest that bare skin does not enhance you're staying cool,

but very light sun-blocking clothing will.

 

The one thing that hammers me at any match in July or August (here in the Pacific Northwet) is to have to be out in the

direct sunlight and constant glare, adding to the heat. Having shade, and plenty of water and fresh orange slices and

other fruit, plus maybe some protein snacks and such to nibble on really makes a difference.

 

I'm still struggling to find the right hat for summer - as I do want one for sun blocking, but the felt ones make my noggin cook!

 

SC

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like yur mother tried to tell you when yu was a youngun, don't wear black in the summer. I had a t shirt that was black on one side and white on the other,,,, great science experience,,,, yur mother was right!!!

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like yur mother tried to tell you when yu was a youngun, don't wear black in the summer. I had a t shirt that was black on one side and white on the other,,,, great science experience,,,, yur mother was right!!!

Wait a minute there.... If it works for Paladin, I'll make it work for me.

 

SC

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I like for my competitors to ware dark colors in the sun!!!!

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Tex,

 

Can you answer my question re sizing? I typically opt for medium since cowboy clothing I have found to be a generous fit from the likes of Scully, etc. However, the Hornaday sizing chart suggests I will need a large. Have you found their sizing to be accurate?

 

Bob

I usually wear an XL shirt. I order an XL Cooler Cowboy and there a little roomier than my regular shirts. For lightweight pants call Matt at Hamilton Dry Goods.

 

 

http://www.hamiltondrygoods.com/

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One of the biggest advantages of the dry shirts, no matter who you buy them from, is they do not stick to you like a lightweight cotton shirt does. Makes it much much easier to move around and shoulder your SG and rifle if you shirt isn't stuck to your skin.

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Dave,

 

You are so correct about light-weight, smooth cotton sticking. That is why Ecuadorian cotton (light rough weave), linen, seersucker are better choices. The irregularities in the fabrics elevate them somewhat from the skin. Hubby had two stripe seersucker shirts he wore out.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

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We conducted Millions of dollars of research on Comfort in the early 1980's. It is more than about Hot and Cold and is very individual. There is no general solution for all humans. There are many Hot Weather solutions on the market. Almost all work for some and not for others.

 

Allie - I find real seersucker more comfortable in hot moist weather, as well. But others do not - is is individual.

 

I just wear what the Match Director says is acceptable !

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Real simple for me after years of sweating in CAS matches here...I don't shoot when it's too hot! ;)

 

I shoot skeet in off season since dress doesn't matter...so too hot of cold to shoot cowboy, I bust Clays instead! Earlier start, less gear, any clothes goes!

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That's the problem if too many people complain about the way others dress there aren't going to be that many left Its a game for fun why make such a big deal over what somebody wears. If people want this sport to keep growing there going to have to lighten up If you want to dress in full wool suit knock yourself out But don't expect me to I know if I could shoot in a lot less hot clothes I would shoot almost every month But know I only shoot about 4-5 times a year just not worth being hot and uncomfortable and to top it off listening to people complaining

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