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Fox Tail Bob

Not renewing SASS membership

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Guest Tennessee Stud, SASS# 43634 Life
Not renewing SASS membership Thought I'd explain why

 

Hell... no explanation necessary. You just mistakenly opened the wrong door.... and stepped in.

 

Whups! I did that onest... and there was wimmen in the bathroom.

 

But wait... you get a do-over for somethin' else that I ain't quite figgered out yet.

 

ts

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To each his own. In all fairness it has changed to a speed game in favor of mostly young folks with eyes, dexiterity, and fast reflexes. When I first started around 20 or so years ago, we threw lassos , knives , carried saddlebags or sat on moving seats like coaches or wagons , all on the clock. This helped to even out things. In spite of all thats happened , I still have a lot of fun. I can't wear my guns , boots and hat around the house without raising some questions . In the end you have to do what you like best.

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Fox Tail Bob gave an honest and dead on assessment of a real problem in SASS, and I'm sure he represents a large number of people who leave (or never join) that we don't know of. The worst thing we can do is just say goodbye and change nothing. I've said for a long time that there needs to be a category for new shooters or those with tight budgets and/or fixed incomes. All the "rules" were broken for the Wild Bunch category, why can't we do it again? :)

 

BSD

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Fox Tail Bob gave an honest and dead on assessment of a real problem in SASS, and I'm sure he represents a large number of people who leave (or never join) that we don't know of. The worst thing we can do is just say goodbye and change nothing. I've said for a long time that there needs to be a category for new shooters or those with tight budgets and/or fixed incomes. All the "rules" were broken for the Wild Bunch category, why can't we do it again? :)

 

BSD

 

 

I'm confused, I thought "Wild Bunch" was a seperate game, like mounted shooting, not a SASS "category".

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I'm confused, I thought "Wild Bunch" was a seperate game, like mounted shooting, not a SASS "category".

 

 

+1.

 

And the original poster bought guns, he just decided he didn't want CAS guns.

 

Begging people to stay in SASS just appears a bit needy don't you think?

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Nobody shot with two hands.

 

You need to go back and study your history, you might be surprised!! :)

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Fox Tail Bob gave an honest and dead on assessment of a real problem in SASS, and I'm sure he represents a large number of people who leave (or never join) that we don't know of. The worst thing we can do is just say goodbye and change nothing. I've said for a long time that there needs to be a category for new shooters or those with tight budgets and/or fixed incomes. All the "rules" were broken for the Wild Bunch category, why can't we do it again? :)

 

BSD

 

I don't think I could disagree more.

 

This game isn't for everyone, if we changed it for every person who tried it but didn't like it for whatever reason, it would wind up such a mess that those who are now passionate about it would be gone quicker than the blink of an eye.

 

Addressing fixed budgets, yes, it's expensive to gear up, when I started I had NOTHING that I needed, no guns, no leather, about all I had was a cowboy hat. Folks loaned me what I needed until I got geared up. I sold off other toys and things that meant nothing to me, to buy what I needed for my new hobby, something I was passionate about, Cowboy Action Shooting.

 

Lastly, one of the beautiful things about SASS is that the local clubs have the freedom and latitude to offer things like the working cowboy category for their monthly matches. They have the latitude to adjust stage design based on weather, number of shooters, range restrictions, and even personal preference or ability of those shooters who shoot there. Yes, there are a core set of SASS rules that should be followed as much as possible, but the local club has the leeway to play the game in a way that best suits the folks who are shooting there.

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I don't think I could disagree more.

 

This game isn't for everyone, if we changed it for every person who tried it but didn't like it for whatever reason, it would wind up such a mess that those who are now passionate about it would be gone quicker than the blink of an eye.

 

Addressing fixed budgets, yes, it's expensive to gear up, when I started I had NOTHING that I needed, no guns, no leather, about all I had was a cowboy hat. Folks loaned me what I needed until I got geared up. I sold off other toys and things that meant nothing to me, to buy what I needed for my new hobby, something I was passionate about, Cowboy Action Shooting.

 

Lastly, one of the beautiful things about SASS is that the local clubs have the freedom and latitude to offer things like the working cowboy category for their monthly matches. They have the latitude to adjust stage design based on weather, number of shooters, range restrictions, and even personal preference or ability of those shooters who shoot there. Yes, there are a core set of SASS rules that should be followed as much as possible, but the local club has the leeway to play the game in a way that best suits the folks who are shooting there.

 

 

Well said!!

 

You hit the nail square on the head with that one.

 

The person with potential passion are the ones we want to show SASS, attract and then help get into the game. I have no problems with 'helping' the person with passion to achieve their goal.

The freeloader? I have no time for them.

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That is what he is saying. Look at the cost barrier to entry. What does it cost for someone to start BEFORE they have a passion?

 

 

Personally, I went to just 'one' monthly shoot as a visitor..... I was hooked and immediately started gathering guns and gear. I had absolutely nothing before hand that would qualify. The good folks helped me with what I didn't have and by next month, I was shooting with mine, yours and everyones equipment. Been a great ride since.

 

BTW, I have had the opportunity to shoot at a montly or two that I had to borrow absolutely everything. Driving 24 hrs straight through from three states away to get there, kinda sets you up for that scenerio. That is an example of passion.

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I understand if FTB don't like SASS.I had the passion before I went to my first shoot.I had 2 stock 92s,I had the guns I am still shooting, P models and two S X S shotguns I am still shooting.I don't understand why this post keeps on going.Sass is my hobby and it is cheaper than any hobby I have had.What my Bass boat cost,I could buy 5 sets of cas guns.I don't have it any more.The hunting lease I had when my kids were growing up I could buy a set of cas guns each year, i had it for 20 years.If someone don't like SASS I understand.I love the game and most of the people in it.I don't think that if anyone liked the game the price to get started would keep them from playing the game.My leathers are used,all my guns were used.I am sure some started with the top of the line guns,but you don't have to.No one has any more fun than I do.

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They look like rules made by gun salesmen.

 

They're rules made by folks that like to SHOOT...a LOT.

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So, it is a prerequisite that they *like the game, before they play the game.* If they don't know if they will like it, or on the fence, what then, get lost, tough luck?

 

You will need:

Two single action revolvers,

one pistol caliber lever action rifle,

one side-by-side shotgun without ejectors,

or an external hammer pump shotgun.

 

...

 

They look like rules made by gun salesmen.

 

Maybe you should have read the Website or Shooter's Hanbook more carefully before misstating the gun requirements. You have omitted allowed guns from each type.

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I probably won't be renewing either. But I think you shouldn't change a thing. I photographed 2 matches before deciding to get into it myself, and knew what the requirements were and generally how the game is played. I plan on keeping the guns, because I like them...a lot. In fact, I hunt deer on my dad's farm, and 100 yards is about the most visibility you can get, and I've worked up a magnum load using the Hornady 180 grn. XTP that the '73 really likes. I can shoot the Vaquero left hand unsupported better than my Glock...just not quite as fast...or as many times. :)

 

With me, it was always a "Is this something I can do" adventure. I had quite a few really friendly and knowledgeable pards show me some neat tricks, some do it yourself mods, etc, that in time got me under 180 seconds for 5 stages. Not blazing by any means, but it was quite a feat for me.

 

But, nothing has ever held my attention for very long, it's just the way I am. As I'm keepin' all the stuff, I might even shoot a match every now and then just to get out and piddle away some time on a Saturday, but I won't be doing the twice a month regimen after this winter, and most likely won't maintain a membership. But as for the sport, I hope it stays just the way it is.

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Click on it.

Why? I know our gun requirements. You have ommitted some from Captain Baylor's site and some that are listed in the SHB that he didn't list.

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Click on it.

 

Knothead <_< ....That SA remark won't 'float' well here.

Allie is a TG. Do you have a clue what "TG" stands for? Do you have a clue what it takes to become one? NO YOU DON'T.......

From your rambling PMs to me. You just want the rules changed to fit YOU. It ain't going to happen.

No one if forcing you to join.

It's just a 'game' after all.

LG

 

P.S. Allie Mo has MANY friends on this forum. I am very lucky to be one of them ;)

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We gotta guest... and he's just stirrin' the pot

 

 

 

Rance <_<

Thinkin'... pot stirrer :lol:

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We gotta guest... and he's just stirrin' the pot

 

 

 

Rance <_<

Thinkin'... pot stirrer :lol:

 

 

Me thinks, he's more a troll than anything else.

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Howdy,

ppllleeezzze could somebody yank the plug on this sorry post....

 

 

thanks.

CR

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We have people come to our club just to watch and ask about the game.After the match we have let lot of people shoot.I have let them use leather,guns and ammo.Some people are hooked after the first time. Some have come back and we loan them what they need.Some come 6 or 8 times before they make up their mind. Some say it is not for them.Most start buying their guns.They buy them as they can.If someone wants to shoot I will do what I can so they can shoot.The cowboys and cowgirls I know will help anyone.

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Hello Cremony,

 

Captain Baylor provides some useful information. However, if you want to know what is specifically required or is not allowed, please see the Shooter's Handbook. A link to it and other SASS rule booklets is on the SASS home page.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

PS Thanks Lumpy. You are my friend for sure!

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Guest Texas Jack Black

You need thick skin skin to ride this range. ;)

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I had no guns that would qualify when I started. I went to matches, asked questions, and got a lot of offers to borrow things. Cost me about $4000.00 to get started. That's mostly because I bought good stuff that doesn't give trouble. That's a good bit of money for a working class fella, but I used to play golf and still fish some, and they are both more expensive. I've spent a good bit more since on clothes, reloading stuff and other things. I LIKE CAS and intend to stay.

SASS is not for everybody. I would like to see more "throwback" matches, and they're a couple of changes I would make to catagories. But I'm happy with the matches the way they are and the folks involved in SASS.

For the most part, I think you either like it or not, you work to change something if it's important to you, and let the constant negatives just run off you back. Works for me....

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Well, it's distinctly more expensive to be in the game than it used to be. Some of that is the advent of specialized tools (short stroke kids, modified hammers, etc.) and some of it is simply that everything is more expensive today than it was 20 years ago when I started shooting.

 

I think it's interesting that we're always trying to attract new people to the sport, but when one mentions certain things that put him off, he's automatically seen as a troll or someone who's just stirring the pot. Why would this be the case? Simply because he specifically mentioned items such as repetitive stages etc., that at least some veteran shooters have discussed for years?

 

I've met some of the warmest and most welcoming people I've met anywhere on earth via the SASS wire and SASS events, but an organization that can't accept criticism, even constructive criticism, isn't doing its best to welcome new members, or retain old ones.

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Cookie cutter repititive stages are our main bane at this juncture. The pendulum needs to swing back hard and fast toward fun stages. We've been on this 10 10 4 speed is all we want or need kick way too long now. All the goofy stuff on and off the clock that has gone away as if actually banned needs to come roaring back. That stuff is the essence of CAS and we need to re-embrace it again.

 

2rows with ejectors should be approved immediately. As should the 93/97 and the Model 12. If they are good enuff for WBAS they are good enuff for CAS.

 

There needs to be an Open category where all our pro shooters and those of us game enuff can shoot. If sponsors with prize money for this one category only can be found well why not? Of course all the other categories need to stay amateur. Shooting on the move and itty bitty bonus target centers like W3G could help re-vitalize the old game.

 

The thing is we have allowed ourselves to settle into a too much the same ole same ole Saturday after Saturday. There are lots of things we can do to shake up the old game and make it interesting again.

 

The main problem is that we are not doing any of it. Hidebound. Dern it.

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Cookie cutter repititive stages are our main bane at this juncture. The pendulum needs to swing back hard and fast toward fun stages. We've been on this 10 10 4 speed is all we want or need kick way too long now. All the goofy stuff on and off the clock that has gone away as if actually banned needs to come roaring back. That stuff is the essence of CAS and we need to re-embrace it again.

 

2rows with ejectors should be approved immediately. As should the 93/97 and the Model 12. If they are good enuff for WBAS they are good enuff for CAS.

 

There needs to be an Open category where all our pro shooters and those of us game enuff can shoot. If sponsors with prize money for this one category only can be found well why not? Of course all the other categories need to stay amateur. Shooting on the move and itty bitty bonus target centers like W3G could help re-vitalize the old game.

 

The thing is we have allowed ourselves to settle into a too much the same ole same ole Saturday after Saturday. There are lots of things we can do to shake up the old game and make it interesting again.

 

The main problem is that we are not doing any of it. Hidebound. Dern it.

 

For someone that shoots at a club that draws 4-6 shooter per monthly,, do as you wish.

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BM, the 4-6 shooters club is here in Pampa not at the Canadian River Regulators down in Clarendon. We shoot down there the 2nd, 3rd, and 5th Saturday. The second Saturday shoot is the traditional date. When I started in May 96 it was the only shoot just about between Dallas and Denver. Not quite but you get the idea. We averaged 3 dozen a shoot back then and about 75-80 for our annual, Gunfight at Old Tascosa. Since those glory days in the late 90s early 2000s it has been downhill all the way. But there are lots more shoots around now than then. Pards that used to make the drive now have much closer shoots to go to.

 

Nowadays Clarendon usually has 2 short posses on the 2nd Saturday and only one on the 3rd and 5th Saturdays. Why that is is that the 2nd Saturday is the one folks have customarily come to over the years and once a month is enuff for some folks.

 

Pampa on the 4th Saturday is a one man show and not a SASS club. The MD built it and writes the stages. He puts the rifle targets out at respectable CAS rifle distances where they should be. They get progressively farther away from left to right as the stages progress. Stage 1 has the closest and stage 6 they are at a mere 40 paces. Word of mouth by those who like their rifle targets way too ridiculously close is that the closest is 75 yards out is just vicious falsehood. Still, I know folks 5 miles away who refuse to go there. Different strokes for different folks. In August we had 6 shooters, in July we had 9 shooters here in Pampa so you just never know. He also always has some bonus stuff like shooting a cigarette in two with the pistol and cutting a playing card, or a reload one round at a rifle coyote target way out there. Good clean old fashioned CAS fun. Not a match like the modern CAS match paradigm but throw back stuff. It's his baby and no one else has any say at all. Not SASS affiliated but no need to be. I like it. But then I like modern paradigm matches too. It's all good. Variety is the spice of life.

 

Weather this Saturday is expected to cool off quite a mite down to 77 or so so I am looking for 2 posses of 8 or 9 to show up down in Clarendon. I sure hope so. One big posse would be better for me as I am thinking of shooting WB. I really need the practice before the state WB champeenship the next week end. Haven't shot my bottom feeders and trombone guns since June 30.

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There are several shooters I know that have made the decision to not renew their SASS membership but still shoot at many shoots, i.e., at least one or two monthly matches each month. They know they can not shoot at state matches or higher but do not want to do that any more. These shooters have various reasons to not continue with SASS membership but most are were not happy with some of the decisions made by the WB and some of the issues that impacted them at matches held at Founders Ranch. They are happy now with just attending local matches.

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One of the things I learned as a LEO was that in any complaint there is a percentage of truth. It may be 100% or 1%, but there is still truth. I agree that some mistakes were made in the research and purchase category on his behalf, but again if we don't bristle up and listen to what he's saying, we'd see that he was on a limited budget and he needed his guns to be multi-taskers and not just for SASS. I think the far greater number that we'll never be able to gauge is the crowd who does the research and doesn't join because of the excessive cost. For the beginner, the start up cost of $4000+, combined with clothing, gun leather and cart, plus buying ammo off of the shelf at $50 for .45 Colt, and finally that 2 hour drive to a match with gas at $4 a gallon, it's just not feasible for many. Why not have a "Beginners" category or division that allows the use of 1 gun, then give the person 1 or 2 years to move up to a regular membership participation? ;)

 

BSD

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One of the things I learned as a LEO was that in any complaint there is a percentage of truth. It may be 100% or 1%, but there is still truth. I agree that some mistakes were made in the research and purchase category on his behalf, but again if we don't bristle up and listen to what he's saying, we'd see that he was on a limited budget and he needed his guns to be multi-taskers and not just for SASS. I think the far greater number that we'll never be able to gauge is the crowd who does the research and doesn't join because of the excessive cost. For the beginner, the start up cost of $4000+, combined with clothing, gun leather and cart, plus buying ammo off of the shelf at $50 for .45 Colt, and finally that 2 hour drive to a match with gas at $4 a gallon, it's just not feasible for many. Why not have a "Beginners" category or division that allows the use of 1 gun, then give the person 1 or 2 years to move up to a regular membership participation? ;)

 

BSD

 

 

Those are positive thoughts Duke.

 

Although my budget right now justifies centerfire pistols and rifles, travel, more guns, etc.....I would like the WB to consider allowing the usage of .22 rimfire pistols and rifles for adult shooters. And if need be, have a RIMFIRE category.....or not.

 

It wouldn't bother me to compete with another GF if they are shooting .22's while I shoot my .32's, .38's or even .45's

 

 

..........Widder

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Those are positive thoughts Duke.

 

Although my budget right now justifies centerfire pistols and rifles, travel, more guns, etc.....I would like the WB to consider allowing the usage of .22 rimfire pistols and rifles for adult shooters. And if need be, have a RIMFIRE category.....or not.

 

It wouldn't bother me to compete with another GF if they are shooting .22's while I shoot my .32's, .38's or even .45's

 

 

..........Widder

 

I have no problem shooting Pale Rider loads in my 45's against less recoil 38's and such....I already know what I'm getting into....and if anything, the BIG loads are entertainment :lol:

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Those are positive thoughts Duke.

 

Although my budget right now justifies centerfire pistols and rifles, travel, more guns, etc.....I would like the WB to consider allowing the usage of .22 rimfire pistols and rifles for adult shooters. And if need be, have a RIMFIRE category.....or not.

 

It wouldn't bother me to compete with another GF if they are shooting .22's while I shoot my .32's, .38's or even .45's

 

 

..........Widder

 

+1

I agree with adding a rimfire category for adults. The Henry .22 is an decent, inexpensive rifle and Heritage Rough Riders are downright cheap (probably a reason for that, though :rolleyes: ). Throw in a 12 gauge shotgun that they can still use if they end up switching to centerfire guns, and someone could kit up for a rimfire category for $1,000 in guns.

 

I would suggest that adults shooting rimfire cannot compete in any other category including overall for obvious reasons. While it wouldn't bother me either, we don't need anymore controversies about competetive advantage.

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Those are positive thoughts Duke.

 

Although my budget right now justifies centerfire pistols and rifles, travel, more guns, etc.....I would like the WB to consider allowing the usage of .22 rimfire pistols and rifles for adult shooters. And if need be, have a RIMFIRE category.....or not.

 

It wouldn't bother me to compete with another GF if they are shooting .22's while I shoot my .32's, .38's or even .45's

 

 

..........Widder

Widder,

 

You are a good man for not having issues with .22s in your category.

 

I like the concept of a "beginner's category."

 

Unfortunately, many folks have forgotten that SASS does encourage local trials of new categories. They even offered Senior GF, which is not in "the books" at EOT. Many matches, including state matches, offer FCGF. The Cowboys had a category at Gun Fight Behind Jersey Lily that allowed shooting the match without the SG. They have a variety of categories that are not in the booklet.

 

We have a local club, which is not SASS affiliated, that offers many gun accomodations at their matches. Some folks shoot DA or .22 pistols... They have practice days (not a match) twice a month where new folks can try a variety of different SASS-legal guns to assist in a purchase decision. A SASS-affiliated club could do the same thing.

 

I see no down side to offering alternate categories at monthly matches. It costs nothing.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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