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Uberti Cattleman accuracy - what is your experience?


Rancid Loosehammer

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I am asking for input regarding the accuracy of the Uberti Cattleman.

Do they shoot a decent group AT POINT OF AIM?

 

I have two original Ruger Vaqueros that have horrible accuracy. I have given up on them, will never buy another Ruger as long as I live! Out of the box they shot 5 or 6 inches left at 25 yards, and strung their shots vertically over an 8 - 9 inch span. I sent them both to Bob Munden. He sent back the guns with targets showing both guns shooting all 6 rounds into one ragged 5/8" hole at 15 yards, at point of aim. At the range, I can come nowhere close to this kind of accuracy with these guns. They are better than before, but still 2 - 3" left and groups in the 4-inch range @ 20 yards. True, I am not using the same exact ammo that Munden used when he shot those targets, but ammo should not make THAT big a difference!

 

A gun that won't shoot a group around one inch at point of aim at 25 yards is about as useful as goose crap on a pump handle.

 

True, this is SASS, where real accuracy is a non-issue; just know where your gun shoots and compensate accordingly. But still, decent accuracy would be SO nice! All my life I have had the very strong conviction that fixed-sighted guns are absolutely worthless. These Rugers are just reinforcing that belief. They are the only fixed-sighted handguns that I own, I got them specifically for SASS.

 

And please don't suggest it's the shooter. I am a very accomplished handgunner, can easily keep all shots in the 10 ring @ 25 yards all day long with my other handguns.

 

Do not try to convince me that Rugers are accurate. Yours may be, mine are not, and that's the end of it. Ruger has burned me twice, they will not get another chance!

 

I am asking for input on the Uberti Cattleman.

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Let's see. Bob did real good groups with the guns but you don't. We can't suggest that it may be the shooter, so leaves little room for help, don't it????

 

My ubertis shoot fine. Like em. Shoot em a lot. So do my colts, and my rugers.

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RL -

 

Got two Cattlemen in .45 Colt - they are fairly consistent and tight enough groups for what we do in CAS. My Rugers (lessee, herd is about 7 right now, if I remember right) are more so. Almost no single action shoots to Point of Aim out of the box. We'll find out why in just a second.

 

But, before we start, let's try to get to a possible root cause. I'll try to put this nicely - The number of flaws with your reasoning are almost as large as the number of problems you have expressing your problem, and the errors you have made in asking for assistance, as far as I can tell. There, how was that? :lol:

 

 

 

* Almost all Single Action fixed sight revolvers have tall front sights from the factory. That leaves many folks shooting groups that are low. The sights are tall so that you can file them down to the point of impact. If you are going to condemn single actions because the factory front sight is not the correct height for your particular load to give you Point of Aim centering of your shots, you will not find any single actions to suit you.

 

To solve the point-of-aim problem normally takes either filing the height of the front sight, or adjusting the velocity and bullet weight of the load you shoot. Since you don't want to have to start over again very many times on filing the sight, it is best to work up a good load first, one that shoots tight groups, even if they are low, then file the sights to match (you might have asked Bob Munden what load he used, but I'm afraid you have burned that bridge already).

 

 

 

* Almost all shooters new to single actions get too much finger on the trigger. This pushes shots left (for a right hander), and with a variable amount of error. When a known expert single action shooter shoots the guns well, and you don't, all your claims about how good you are with other types of guns is - just posturing. It is not going to solve a single problem. Settle into the concept that it's you, and you can start working on the real problems - you will probably find there are a few in how you are shooting the guns.

 

Reading some of Doc Shapiro's articles would help with shooting a single action precisely. You can get started on them at: http://www.jspublications.net/. Doc will point out more of the common mistakes that shooters make with their single actions - the list is more than just a couple of items.

 

Some Rugers are indeed issued from the factory with accuracy problems. The testing and work you had done by Munden has shown that your guns are not among that small percentage of Ruger guns. I would in fact be proud to have the guns that Munden worked over - that accuracy level tells me I could probably hit any target I needed to out to about a hundred yards with the right amount of practice on my part.

 

Nichols Creek was onto something, I believe. If you don't want to work with suggestions from the Wire, you will have to find someplace else to talk to "the Experts from SASS." When you come into a collection of pards who know how to shoot fixed-sight guns, and you want to try to prove "All my life I have had the very strong conviction that fixed-sighted guns are absolutely worthless", you are proving little but your own stubbornness and lack of skill.

 

 

But, directly to your post subject, no, Uberti Cattlemen are no more accurate or precisely-sighted from the factory than Ruger Vaqueros.

 

Good luck, GJ

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Let's see. Bob did real good groups with the guns but you don't. We can't suggest that it may be the shooter, so leaves little room for help, don't it????

 

My ubertis shoot fine. Like em. Shoot em a lot. So do my colts, and my rugers.

 

 

Ditto;

Until you run those gun on a machine rest there is no way to say how much the accuracy problem can be assigned to the guns.

Machine rests don't lie.

 

This is how I do it if I don't have a machine rest handy. First is target selection. I setup a target at 10 to 15 yds. This will depend on how you plan to use the gun. For me and my eyes, fix sighted SAA's beyond 25 yds is not an option. The target is an inverted "T" on freezer paper made using black electrical tape. The idea is to set the "T's" horizontal line on top the rear site and center the front sight with the vertical line. The objective is for the group to hit POI at the juncture of the two lines. Next is the rest. I actually rest the front of the lower frame on the soft rest with bags around my hands. Some folks will tell you to just rest your hands but not the gun. I've tried it both ways and have found little or no difference.

What I have found that makes a big difference is this. When shooting a rifle you have a much steadier platform and even a cheek weld on the stock to steady your head. I try to do the same thing by setting up near a post or use an ammo can or something that I can rest my head against. If your head can move it's no different than your sights moving. Now shoot a 5 or 6 shot group using the tips above.

You might even shoot 6 different target using only one chamber to see just what chamber groups the best, mark the worst chamber and load only five with the hammer down on this empty chamber.

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The Uberti's I've owned (3 pair) have been very accurate. I also have 2 pair of GW (Pietta) both are very accurate also, however I did have to file down the front sight on the .45s cause I shoot the Cowboy 45 Special in them as well as use them for CFDA. No big deal they shoot great. Good Luck :)

 

 

Jefro :ph34r: Realx-Enjoy

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This is primarily in response to Garrison Joe -

 

I am not a total stubborn block-head. I will look into Doc Shapiro's information as you suggest. Many of the other handguns that I own and do shoot well are in fact single-actions - they just have adjustable sights. And yes, two of those guns are Ruger single-actions, both super blackhawks. I suppose it is possible that those same adjustable sights are compensating for bad technique on my part. But having too much finger on the trigger isn't on the list - I have studied trigger technique extensively and put that knowledge to practice. I can usually consistently bounce pop cans around at 100 yards with those handguns, standing with a two-handed hold - couldn't do that with bad trigger technique. When I said I would never buy another Ruger, I should have been clearer - I mean Vaqueros only. But I will read Doc Shapiro's stuff.

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This is primarily in response to Garrison Joe -

 

I am not a total stubborn block-head. I will look into Doc Shapiro's information as you suggest. Many of the other handguns that I own and do shoot well are in fact single-actions - they just have adjustable sights. And yes, two of those guns are Ruger single-actions, both super blackhawks. I suppose it is possible that those same adjustable sights are compensating for bad technique on my part. But having too much finger on the trigger isn't on the list - I have studied trigger technique extensively and put that knowledge to practice. I can usually consistently bounce pop cans around at 100 yards with those handguns, standing with a two-handed hold - couldn't do that with bad trigger technique. When I said I would never buy another Ruger, I should have been clearer - I mean Vaqueros only. But I will read Doc Shapiro's stuff.

 

 

OK, some "old model" Vaqueros were indeed cut with cylinder throats of varying IDs and throats that were smaller IDs than the groove diameter of the barrel. I would assume you had Munden check the relationship between the cylinders and the barrel. Since he had a load that he shot well, perhaps he was using some soft slugs that would upset well, even if the cylinder throats were too tight. If you shot hard-cast slugs, you could have accuracy problems that he did not with the soft lead loads.

 

Most vendors sell harder slugs (either loose or loaded in ammo) than we actually need in CAS. For a muzzle velocity of 1000 FPS maximum, the alloy can be pretty soft - like 1:40 tin/lead or non-hardened wheel weights. In fact, I soften wheelweight alloy with maybe 20% pure lead, for all my cowboy shooting.

 

Second, your powder choice could be a contributor to poor accuracy, as could lots of other things. A cowboy load that makes about 800 FPS, with a light, soft slug and a soft shooting powder like Clays is the "gold standard" for what we are doing. Careful roll crimping is also a big contributor to accuracy, and often gets messed up.

 

Good luck, and get in some practice time, either with some other folks' ammo that shoots well, or maybe having a few other shooters shoot your guns and loads. I think you will get to the point of understanding the problems fairly quickly, then you can move on to the point of mastering the guns quickly.

 

GJ

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While I don't shoot Rugers anymore (had 2) I'd try what was suggested.Make up some different loads and try them out.Some guns as you probably know from shooting others you have;shoot different with different loads.You may have 1 that likes a softer load for accuraccy and another that wants a tad hotter load do get the same result.I had 2 OMV's that were very low and very left using Winchester or Ultramax cowboy loads.Didn't make much difference which.Sent them back to Ruger to correct the waaaaaay left problem and filed the low problem out of the front sight a little at a time.I sold the Rugers I had and went to Uberti's and Pietta's not because of accuracy problems,but because I didn't like the feel of the guns.

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Plus one to what Garrison Joe said. In both his posts. Ruger has been shipping guns for several years that were/are less than optimum. Seldome does the cylinder throat match to the bore of the barrel. Usually the forcing cone is less than it should be. It wouldn't hurt to have the bore slugged and checked against the cylinder throats and take a look at the forcing cone.

After you do the above and eliminate the mechanical stuff, you really need to look to your ammunition. It isn't all created equal. You may be shooting the wrong bullet with the wrong powder. It happens. Optimum accuracy with fixed sights takes some effort to match the ammunition to the gun.

All of the above development needs to be done from a bagged rest. Not standing on your hind leggs. It also helps with problem guns to have someone else shoot them as well.

Uberti and Pietta usually do a better job with the cylinder throats than Ruger does but there are no guarantees. Personally, I have never been able to shoot Rugers well. I shoot Uberti Open Tops very well. So ....... I don't shoot Rugers except to test fire after I work on them.

 

Coffinmaker

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Well, now I'm hearing stuff that is ringing true.

For one thing, I have absolutely zero past experience with lead bullets. Have shot nothing but jacketed bullets all my life. And with jacketed bullets changes in ammo don't have that dramatic an effect on point of aim ... it can change, yes, but not all that much.

 

My vaqueros were purchased new in 2002, and sat on my shelf until this year, unfired. I meant to join SASS back then, but life didn't cooperate until this year. I always assumed they would be as accurate as my other Ruger guns, so never bothered to fire them. 9 years after purchase is a bit late to be sending them back to Ruger for adjustment.

 

Yes, I was shooting from a bagged rest when I tried them for accuracy.

For another thing, I don't even have reloading dies yet for my SASS guns.

Bob did rework the forcing cones. But I don't believe he did anything at all with the chambers/throats.

Bob Munden shot those groups with Federal LSW hollow point ammo, 200 grains, and I used Winchester Cowboy loads (a load noted above as shooting low/left).

I will find some of the same ammo that Bob used and try that ... should have done that in the first place.

 

Also, as Garrison Joe pointed out above, it seems the "gold standard" for sass is a light, soft slug about 800 fps. I was shooting 240 grain which isn't exactly light. Will try Bob Munden's ammo, then try some Black Hills 210 grain cowboy loads. But if I can't match Bob's test target accuracy using Bob's ammo, that means it's either me ... or that Bob is pulling a fast one, which makes no sense at all 'cause that sort of thing would catch up with him real fast ... so it just about has to be me.

 

If they still prove to shoot "bad" no matter what I do, then I'll send them off to Rick Stover to make sure the chambers / throats are all optimum, and have him put a target crown on the barrels.

 

With all your advice and enough time and trial and error, I am starting to gain some confidence in perhaps being able to wring some decent accuracy out of my Vaqueros. But these could turn out to be some very pricey Vaqueros.

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I have 2 pairs of cimarrons,I have 3 AWAs all in 357. They all have had some work on them.They all shoot point of aim.They shoot better than I can.If I dont hit what I aim at it is me.I bought a pair of rugers done way back by Jimmy Spurs, They shot POA but did not fit my hands.

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Well, I have Uberti Cattlemen revolvers that are now about 10 years old. One I shoot with smokeless for practice and the other two I load with black powder for matches.

 

The smokeless load I use is a tack driver and hits POA at 10 yards for many rounds. It groups under 1 inch when I shoot from a rest. I clean it about every 150 rounds just for grins. I don't really test out further, so I can't say.

 

The BP loads have similar "felt recoil" but shoot low and left. Interesting phenom. Anyway, the group is nice and tight for BP and if I hold up my end of the shooting task, I get good results at the match. I did some accuracy testing once a while back. BP has bigger groups that can keep getting bigger as you shoot. Anyway, the 1st 5 shots are usually in 1 inch groups at 10 yeards. The last 5 of 25 are usually 2 or 3 inch groups.

 

YMMV.

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Howdy

 

Let me get this straight. You can shoot revolvers with adjustable sights very accurately, and have always believed that fixed sight revolvers are inherently inaccurate. Then, the first pair of single action revolvers you buy fulfill your preconceived notion.

 

I'll bet you a donut that if you look at the sights on your adjustable sighted revolvers, they are set off to one side. I will bet you another donut that if you are a right handed shooter, your rear sights are pushed over a bit to the right.

 

I can't tell you the number of used adjustable sighted revolvers I have bought that had their rear sights pushed over a little bit to the right. Both single action and double action. Because their previous owners were compensating for too much finger on the trigger. When I bench these revolvers, I always wind up resetting the rear sight to the center.

 

You may recall that a few days ago I answered one of your posts with the idea of too much finger on the trigger. It has been repeated several times here.

 

The simple fact is, we are physically incapable of pulling straight back on a trigger. Our joints don't work that way. The only thing we can do is curl our fingers. If you place the tip of your finger on the trigger, you can pull the trigger back a bit straighter than you can if you place the trigger in the crease behind the knuckle. That is because by placing the tip of the finger on the trigger, we have pushed the other knuckles further over to the side. In doing so, we can pull straighter back with the tip of the finger on the trigger than if it nestles in the fold behind the knuckle. Yes, it feels unnatural at first, but if the trigger is nestled in the crease, when we curl our finger to pull the trigger there is more tendency to push the whole gun over to the left, if one is a righty.

 

When I buy a 'new' revolver, either used or new, the first thing I do is I bench it. I shoot off of sand bags. I grip the gun very lightly and allow it to recoil exactly as it wants to, I make no attempt to restrict it. Invariably, EVERY fixed sight revolver I own; single action, double action, Colt, Ruger, Uberti, Smith and Wesson, will shoot dead nuts to the center for windage when I bench rest it on sand bags and pull the trigger gently with my finger tip. And they all shoot off to the left if I try to 'squeeze' the trigger by placing it in the fold behind the knuckle. I have lost count of how many fixed sight revolvers I own, easily well over 2 dozen, maybe approaching 3 dozen. They all shoot this way.

 

Adjustable sights are a different ball game. You can always dial in an adjustable rear sight to pull the point of impact where you want it.

 

Elevation is a different story. That is going to depend pretty much on recoil. More recoil and the shots place higher. Less recoil and the shots place lower. It's really pretty simple.

 

You can mess around with bullet hardness, bullet diameter, chamber throats, and all that stuff, but I will bet you another donut that the biggest change you will see where your bullets strike regarding windage, will relate to how you pull the trigger.

 

Don't forget, accuracy and point of impact are two separate ideas. Accuracy refers to how small a group the gun is capable of making. It does not matter if the group is a foot to one side of the point of aim, accuracy is simply how tight the group is. Point of impact is all about centering the group, no matter how big it is, around the point of aim. All that stuff like chamber throat diameter, bullet diameter, bullet hardness, bullet weight, velocity, and all that other stuff effects how tight the group is. It will have very little effect on point of impact.

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Clamped in a "Ransom" rest My two Main match Cattlemen Will say inside of 2.5 inches at 75 yards with most loads .

 

Some loads do even better ....

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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Clamped in a "Ransom" rest My two Main match Cattlemen Will say inside of 2.5 inches at 75 yards with most loads .

 

Some loads do even better ....

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

 

 

That was my point earlier. Until you knnow what the guns are capable of threre no why to know how much shooter error is contributing here.

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I am asking for input regarding the accuracy of the Uberti Cattleman.

Do they shoot a decent group AT POINT OF AIM?

 

I have two original Ruger Vaqueros that have horrible accuracy. I have given up on them, will never buy another Ruger as long as I live! Out of the box they shot 5 or 6 inches left at 25 yards, and strung their shots vertically over an 8 - 9 inch span. I sent them both to Bob Munden. He sent back the guns with targets showing both guns shooting all 6 rounds into one ragged 5/8" hole at 15 yards, at point of aim. At the range, I can come nowhere close to this kind of accuracy with these guns. They are better than before, but still 2 - 3" left and groups in the 4-inch range @ 20 yards. True, I am not using the same exact ammo that Munden used when he shot those targets, but ammo should not make THAT big a difference!

 

<SNIP>

I am asking for input on the Uberti Cattleman.

 

So - my guns went to Bob for work - these are the test targets . . .Munden test targets . .

 

Recently I switched from TiteGroup to Tral Boss and goths performance from those guns: Rugers with Trail Boss . . .

 

My conclusion is that a craftsman does not blame his tools.

 

If you ever find the one gun made by any manufacturer that solves the issues of poor grouping and such - please advise us - many a man has spent many dollars looking for that out of the box answer .

 

Sc

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Single action revolvers with fixed sights are not target guns. I think maybe yer askin too much of these guns. With that said I have no problem getting a 2-3" group at 25 ft. on a target takin my time and aiming with Uberti's or Rugers. But that's just me!:P Rye

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Hello Driftwood.

 

I do use the tip of my finger, not the joint. Always. I have done that for so many years that it is just natural for me.

But what I DIDN'T do in my sandbagged bench shooting, is LASER FOCUS ON DOING THAT, and I used my NORMAL grip.

I will try it with a relaxed grip and laser focus on on my trigger pull.

 

I'm not concerned about elevation. That is easily handled.

 

Here are the targets that Bob Munden sent back with my guns ... and the guns.

https://picasaweb.google.com/101870376335211233166/August82011#

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Here are the targets that Bob Munden sent back with my guns ... and the guns.

https://picasaweb.go...66/August82011#

 

Link (or access permissions you have set) are bad. I am even a member of Picasa, and even when signed in, I could not find your pics.

 

Good luck, GJ

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changed the access setting on the photos from "Only You" to "Public".

 

Yep, show up fine now.

 

GJ

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They are better than before, but still 2 - 3" left and groups in the 4-inch range @ 20 yards.

Practice - Practice - Practice! That's how Munden was able to shoot clover leafs and you can't. First study this before you start practicing

http://home.earthlink.net/~potomac008/Pistol%20Wheel.htm

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Well, John Boy, I CAN shoot clover leafs at that range with my adjustable sighted guns including a few single actions. On a good day I can even do that standing on my hind legs with a two-hand hold. So it is not ALL about technique. Whatever is going on is specific to FIXED-SIGHTED single actions.

 

What I suspect is the culprit is exactly what Driftwood pointed out above (my trigger pull). I do use the tip of my finger, not the joint and I do always concentrate on pulling straight back directly toward my eyeball. But single actions have a very slow lock time ... there is a considerable amount of time between when the sear releases the hammer and when the firing pin strikes the primer ... and during that time your finger is still "pulling" the trigger. It could very well be that my trigger pull DOES need more work especially on that "follow through" and that my adjustable sights on my other guns are compensating for what I am doing wrong. But the consistent accuracy of those guns would mean that whatever I am doing wrong is at least CONSISTENTLY wrong.

 

I am in process of rounding up a supply of ammo with different bullet weights, different brands, etc. so I can do a long in-depth range session to try to get to the bottom of it.

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Hello Driftwood.

 

I do use the tip of my finger, not the joint. Always. I have done that for so many years that it is just natural for me.

But what I DIDN'T do in my sandbagged bench shooting, is LASER FOCUS ON DOING THAT, and I used my NORMAL grip.

I will try it with a relaxed grip and laser focus on on my trigger pull.

 

I'm not concerned about elevation. That is easily handled.

 

Here are the targets that Bob Munden sent back with my guns ... and the guns.

https://picasaweb.google.com/101870376335211233166/August82011#

Pard:

Sometimes a powder can cause a gun to shoot to the side,one of my Cattlemen shoots about 3 inches left and 1/2 inch low at 25 yards with a Top load of Winchester 231 ,,,,, But shoots to point of aim with loads using True Blue,Unique,Bulls-eye,Red Dot,Promo, and other powers at similure Velocities ....

 

My other two guns shoot all the loads including the 231 load to the same point of aim ....

Guns are indvidule !!!!

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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Well, I had a long range session with my stainless RV this weekend. The case/blue Vaquero had to go back to Bob Munden for some re-work because the action would fairly often hang up when cocking it. But they both shot about 3" left when I first tried them both with Winchester 240 grain cowboy loads.

 

First, I tried the stainless with my normal grip and trigger pull with the butt of the gun on a sandbag rest - with Winchester 240 grain cowboy loads and Black Hills 210 grain cowboy loads.

The winchester loads shot 3" left and 3" high, with a group about 1 1/2" - the Black Hills 210 grain loads shot 2" left and 2" high with a group about the size of a quarter.

 

Next, I tried both loads doing as Drifwood suggested earlier: a very light grip, laser-focusing on my trigger pull, and using the very tip of my finger and easing the trigger back extremely gently, with the butt of the gun on a sandbag rest. Both loads shot exactly where they shot in the first tests, and with the same group sizes.

 

Third, I tried both loads as shot in the 2nd test, but this time resting the barrel on one sandbag rest and the butt of the gun on another sandbag - so neither end of the gun could move. Both loads still shot exactly where they shot in the first two tests, and with the same group sizes.

 

It would seem that several things can be deduced from this:

1. Yes, it is a fact that different brands/bullet weights can and do shoot to different points of aim.

2. The only way that 20+ single actions could be "dead nuts on" for windage right out of the box would seem to be if you just happened to get EXTREMELY lucky and happened to pick the exact ammo that each gun liked.

3. There is nothing wrong with my normal grip and trigger pull.

 

That same day, as I said, my case/blue Vaquero was back in Bob Munden's shop. So I called Bob, and told him the gun still shot 2" left with Black Hills 210 grain cowboy loads. He said he would sight it in again, this time using that load or one very similr to it instead of the Federal 200 grain lead semi-wadcutter hollow point 900fps ammo that he originally used. I told him it would probably shoot about 2" high, and that was OK by me, and that I would be extremely happy if he could get it to shoot to point of aim regarding windage. So we'll see what happens when the gun gets back.

 

Actually, I prefer the guns to shoot about 2" high at 15 yards. That is much more consistent with the way I sight in my other handguns for field use - usually dead on at 50 yards.

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Hey Rancid ... your

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=beating+a+dead+horse+gif&hl=en&sa=G&gbv=2&tbm=isch&tbnid=po9iZqmrpaPJ4M:&imgrefurl=http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php%3Fattachmentid%3D2689824&docid=NB3wcrH_GiluuM&w=750&h=403&ei=z3pdTr65M83E0AHCuMDkAg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=124&vpy=149&dur=173&hovh=164&hovw=306&tx=168&ty=81&page=2&tbnh=99&tbnw=185&start=8&ndsp=8&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:8&biw=1006&bih=479

 

If Munden can shoot clover leafs with your Ruger - it ain't the revolver Pardner, it's Y-O-U. Do something constructive about your issue instead of complaining like you've been doing - get to the range and PRACTICE Holding It Correctly. If you can't hold it the right way then buy a Ransom Rest ... http://www.ransomrest.com/ to prove it's not the firearms issue

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Howdy Again

 

So have you checked the rear sights on your adjustable sighted revolvers yet? Are they centered or are they off to one side?

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DJ -

All of my adjustable sighted revolver rear sights are set at dead center - or maybe a human hair's widthe left or right - all are so near dead center that you can't tell by looking at them if they are left or right. There is one exception, and that is a Taurus 9-shot 22 magnum snubbie, and that gun is pure junk - the sights on it are set as far right as they will go - at 5 yards it still shoots a little left and strings its shots vertically.

But the fact that all of my other adjustable-sighted guns do have the rear sights set so close to center lends a lot of credence to your previous statements about most guns being dead on for windage out of the box. It also tends to negate the theory that my trigger pull is pulling the guns left.

 

And to John Boy -

All a Ransom Rest would prove is that the guns shoot 2" left and 2" high with Black Hills 210 grain cowboy loads. I can not only shoot clover leafs, I can put all 6 rounds into one hole the size of a quarter - that hole just happens to be 2" left and high from point of aim. I have no doubt at all that the guns will shoot exactly at point of aim using the Federal 200 grain lead semi-wadcutter hollow point 900 fps premium target rounds that Bob Munden used when he sighted the guns in. But that ammo costs around $40.00 for 20 rounds, and if you think I'm going to use that ammo for SASS, you're crazier than a loon.

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Hey Rancid ... your

http://www.google.co...iw=1006&bih=479

 

If Munden can shoot clover leafs with your Ruger - it ain't the revolver Pardner, it's Y-O-U. Do something constructive about your issue instead of complaining like you've been doing - get to the range and PRACTICE Holding It Correctly. If you can't hold it the right way then buy a Ransom Rest ... http://www.ransomrest.com/ to prove it's not the firearms issue

 

Oh lord...:lol:

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Thanks for the link Gunner !!!

 

Mine are getting a might tierd,,,, and I noticed they are still in buisness and willing to rebuilt old rests ...

Not what I was told by the Former Canadian Distributer ....

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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I am asking for input regarding the accuracy of the Uberti Cattleman.

Do they shoot a decent group AT POINT OF AIM?

 

I have two original Ruger Vaqueros that have horrible accuracy. I have given up on them, will never buy another Ruger as long as I live! Out of the box they shot 5 or 6 inches left at 25 yards, and strung their shots vertically over an 8 - 9 inch span. I sent them both to Bob Munden. He sent back the guns with targets showing both guns shooting all 6 rounds into one ragged 5/8" hole at 15 yards, at point of aim. At the range, I can come nowhere close to this kind of accuracy with these guns. They are better than before, but still 2 - 3" left and groups in the 4-inch range @ 20 yards. True, I am not using the same exact ammo that Munden used when he shot those targets, but ammo should not make THAT big a difference!

 

A gun that won't shoot a group around one inch at point of aim at 25 yards is about as useful as goose crap on a pump handle.

 

True, this is SASS, where real accuracy is a non-issue; just know where your gun shoots and compensate accordingly. But still, decent accuracy would be SO nice! All my life I have had the very strong conviction that fixed-sighted guns are absolutely worthless. These Rugers are just reinforcing that belief. They are the only fixed-sighted handguns that I own, I got them specifically for SASS.

 

And please don't suggest it's the shooter. I am a very accomplished handgunner, can easily keep all shots in the 10 ring @ 25 yards all day long with my other handguns.

 

Do not try to convince me that Rugers are accurate. Yours may be, mine are not, and that's the end of it. Ruger has burned me twice, they will not get another chance!

 

I am asking for input on the Uberti Cattleman.

 

Yep yur are right as rain, and don't let no one tell you different,buy the I would be glad to take them sorry a%$%$%^&&s^&s guns and tinker with them, I like to get mad at lest 3 times a week so send me a PM and I'll tell you how to dump them on me.

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Yep yur are right as rain, and don't let no one tell you different,buy the I would be glad to take them sorry a%$%$%^&&s^&s guns and tinker with them, I like to get mad at lest 3 times a week so send me a PM and I'll tell you how to dump them on me.

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I have a Uberti '73 with that dang tall site. Instead of filing it down I worked it out to where I knew to take a fine bead on the front site. That being said, look at it this way, usually the longest shots we take in this sport is measured in short feet, not yards, I have one pard who never uses sights and does very well. As far as using a ransomrest to sight in my guns, I never have and doubt I ever will. I sight my guns in the way I will be using them, either free standing, kneeling, prone sometimes hanging from a tree stand ( I wont go there ).

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I don't rember anyone suggesting the use of a Ransom Rest for sighting in a gun !!!!!

This is a rest used to remove the human varible from the equation in the testing of firearm accuracy ....

 

In simple terms, a way to test the gun NOT the shooter ...

 

Some shooters are very good,as are some guns ,,,,,,,,, But I haven't "Knowlingly met a shooter that can hold a 1851 fine enough to shoot a group just 11 thousands over bullet diameter at 7 yards ....

To date that is the finest accuracy I have seen from a "Cowboy" style gun fired in a Ransom Rest ...

 

And the gun was tested against a pietta 1862 that had a hard time keeping 5 on a sheet of typing paper at the same distance ... The Uberti put to the test, new out of the box to see how it stacked-up against the pietta ...

I already knew it shot a lot better than the pietta but how much better was the question , the pietta turned in a 5 shot group of 11 3/4 inches, the Uberti turned in a group of .386 ...

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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the pietta turned in a 5 shot group of 11 3/4 inches, the Uberti turned in a group of .386 ...

 

I could be wrong about this, but I thought we were supposed to measure groups from the centers of the bullet holes. So would your group have actually been .011?

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